How do you practice A/A Refueling?

[Rex]

I'm still having trouble AA refueling, mainly because the tanker refuses to give me ample time to practice.

Today, I had worked my way to within probably 2' of the basket, when the tanker said "Return Contact" and pulled the hose away.

For all of you who have mastered this skill, how did you set up your missions to make it happen?  The tanker seems absolutely obsessed with pulling the hose back in, and this disrupts the majority of my practice sessions.

Is there something I can tweak via config or script to force it to leave the hose out?

[MAXsenna]

I just did the missions over and over and over, until I mastered it. In the beginning I ran out of fuel, or the tanker (Viking) ran out of fuel I guess, and just headed home without any explanation. Very rude!!! But you're right, a lot of strange things with included AAR missions. Seems they will get to a certain way point, that's it. Tried the Harrier for the first time in AAR yesterday. Took 5 minutes to get to the tanker. Tried to connect 3 times. Then it hit way point 1, and went straight to the nearest airport which was right below. Checked the mission in ME, couldn't spot why, but I'm a novice in ME. I have seen guides and tutorials on how to setup tanker missions, and I'm slowly building my own which includes all types of tankers and tankables. 

Cheers! 

[AegisFX]

I set the tanker for a straight course at steady speed and altitude in the editor. But for me, what I worked on as I first began learning was simply flying beside and in formation with my tanker. Then I'd call in, slow down, descend a bit to the level of the hose, and increase throttle to meet with it. I've never had issues with the tanker changing waypoints or pulling back unless I ran into it or moved outside of the "box" that is the acceptable area to fly and be on the hose.

[Rex]

1 hour ago, AegisFX said:

I set the tanker for a straight course at steady speed and altitude in the editor. But for me, what I worked on as I first began learning was simply flying beside and in formation with my tanker. Then I'd call in, slow down, descend a bit to the level of the hose, and increase throttle to meet with it. I've never had issues with the tanker changing waypoints or pulling back unless I ran into it or moved outside of the "box" that is the acceptable area to fly and be on the hose.

Interesting.  I've been having problems with him yanking the hose back. Sometimes when close but also when falling back a little (Note to the guy flying the tanker: If I could do it well, I wouldn't need to practice).

 I practice with the KC-135MPRS as the tanker, do you use the same one?

[Ignition]

3 hours ago, Rex said:

I'm still having trouble AA refueling, mainly because the tanker refuses to give me ample time to practice.

Today, I had worked my way to within probably 2' of the basket, when the tanker said "Return Contact" and pulled the hose away.

For all of you who have mastered this skill, how did you set up your missions to make it happen?  The tanker seems absolutely obsessed with pulling the hose back in, and this disrupts the majority of my practice sessions.

Is there something I can tweak via config or script to force it to leave the hose out?

Put the tanker at 280-300 kts (around 450 true airspeed I believe) and 18.000-20.000 ft with a very long waypoint.

You're taking too long so the AI will withdraw the basket. Just keep trying and someday it will click on you and the you will be able to do it again and again and again.

The F-18C is the easiest aircraft to refuel so it is a good starting aircraft.

[AegisFX]

5 minutes ago, Rex said:

Interesting.  I've been having problems with him yanking the hose back. Sometimes when close but also when falling back a little (Note to the guy flying the tanker: If I could do it well, I wouldn't need to practice).

 I practice with the KC-135MPRS as the tanker, do you use the same one?

At this point, I try to get my practice in multiplayer servers. Sometimes it's the MPRS. Some servers make use of the KC-130. I really wish we had another modern house tanker though. Or at least make more use of the S-3B.

*I don't practice refueling at night as much as I should*

[Tomcat388th]

Here is my tanker msn nothing special kc135mprs. when you spawn  into the jet the tanker will be at your 2 oclock in a left hand turn.  I cant remember how long the racetrack is if you need it longer just stretch out one of the waypoints for the tanker. I had a hard time getting the hang of it about the time I get the throttle under control I'd get out of wack with the stick and vice versa.  

J

F18 REFUEL.miz

[rob10]

3 hours ago, AegisFX said:

At this point, I try to get my practice in multiplayer servers. Sometimes it's the MPRS. Some servers make use of the KC-130. I really wish we had another modern house tanker though. Or at least make more use of the S-3B

S-3 is definitely more challenging if you're still learning.  it also has a lot smaller capacity so it's not unusual for the 2nd plane to not get a full load.  It's fun play with though

[AegisFX]

2 minutes ago, rob10 said:

S-3 is definitely more challenging if you're still learning.  it also has a lot smaller capacity so it's not unusual for the 2nd plane to not get a full load.  It's fun play with though

Yeah, the capacity isn't like the others, but I'd like to have it for missions that are navy assets only. Such as having it be available for carrier landings.

[rob10]

3 hours ago, Rex said:

Interesting.  I've been having problems with him yanking the hose back. Sometimes when close but also when falling back a little (Note to the guy flying the tanker: If I could do it well, I wouldn't need to practice).

 I practice with the KC-135MPRS as the tanker, do you use the same one?

Ya, it can be annoying, but just call "ready pre-contact" again and he'll stick it out again.  He'll retract and make you call ready again if you take too long or fall too far back.  Check the refuel threads for good tips on learning.

[Rex]

 

2 hours ago, Tomcat388th said:

Here is my tanker msn nothing special kc135mprs. when you spawn  into the jet the tanker will be at your 2 oclock in a left hand turn.  I cant remember how long the racetrack is if you need it longer just stretch out one of the waypoints for the tanker. I had a hard time getting the hang of it about the time I get the throttle under control I'd get out of wack with the stick and vice versa.  

J

F18 REFUEL.miz 9.51 kB · 2 downloads

 

much appreciated

Edited September 12, 2022 by Rex

[Gruman]

Couple pointers:

- Dont do AAR Training Scenarios over and over. Just setup a normal routine, where a tanker is in between. Try to get some fuel and than proceed. If its not your day, no biggie, just continue your training flight. -> This way you don't get stressed out over this skill. And there is a tanker on the way home.

- There is a keybind for Ready Precontact. (Just in case you are not using Vaicom, Voiceattack or FoxVox). Put it somewhere you can reach with your throttlehand to start / reset the refueling procedure.

- Try to relax and stay in a comfortable position while refueling.

 

Enjoy mastering it.

[FMBluecher]

4 hours ago, Gruman said:

- Dont do AAR Training Scenarios over and over. Just setup a normal routine, where a tanker is in between. Try to get some fuel and than proceed. If its not your day, no biggie, just continue your training flight. -> This way you don't get stressed out over this skill. And there is a tanker on the way home.

This, for me, worked really well. As someone who went from "refueling is the worst and I can't do it at all" to "oh boy, a mission that requires AAR! Time to show off my skills!" in the last year, I would recommend not doing marathon sessions, but rather just doing 15 minutes a day, every single day. This way, instead of having hours of frustration pile up, you will usually come away with 1-3 problems to solve (or at least work on), which presents itself in a much more manageable way. Just try to do a little bit better than you did the day before and you'll improve in no time.

Edited September 12, 2022 by FMBluecher

[pete_auau]

On 9/12/2022 at 9:42 AM, Ignition said:

Put the tanker at 280-300 kts (around 450 true airspeed I believe) and 18.000-20.000 ft with a very long waypoint.

You're taking too long so the AI will withdraw the basket. Just keep trying and someday it will click on you and the you will be able to do it again and again and again.

The F-18C is the easiest aircraft to refuel so it is a good starting aircraft.

or  you  can  set  a  orbit  between  2  way points   tanker  will  return  to base    when low  on  fuel

[cajundave]

I recommend starting to practice off of the KC-130.  Its flat straight wing gives a good horizon reference point to use.  You can line up the top of the HUD glass with the trailing edge of the tanker's wing.  Once you get good with the -130, then move up to the -135 and S-3.

[EAF602 Red]

There is 2 A/A refulling missions in the F18 missions, use them,, seemples

 

[Dangerzone]

On 9/12/2022 at 8:18 AM, AegisFX said:

But for me, what I worked on as I first began learning was simply flying beside and in formation with my tanker. 

+ 1 for this. I found that I got quite annoyed trying to learn to AAR. I gave up, went flying with friends, and started working on formations (and then close formations) whilst enroute to or from our AO. It was a far more fun to do this. I also practiced formation flying with the tanker as well. Just fun to see how close I could get, how long I could fly.

Then when I finally decided to go back to trying AAR - straight in. I was amazed at the difference it made. (The trick though was not to focus on the basket but to focus flying formation with the tanker). YMMV but I reckon this is worth a shot.

[CobraKhan]

I too thought that those tanker guys were quite rude to wait right up until I was just about close enough to actually get the probe into the basket and then retract it!!!!  I don't know for certain but I would assume that this function is on some kind of timer. From the time that it puts the hose out for you, until it retracts it is some specific period of time.

There are quite a few pointers on this thread, the biggest of which is practice it a lot.  It is going to be difficult, it is going to be frustrating, so I would not spend beyond about 20-minutes or so before I would go onto something else in your training.  Be sure to spend that 20-minutes every single training period, but likelihoods are that you are going to catch the basket in the 3 to 5 minute time-frame, and very unlikely that anything good is going to happen after a frazzled, frustrating, 16 to 19 minute time-frame.

• Don't know if you are flying in a cockpit chair, but most would not be.  So when you get in close, take your feet off the rudder pedals; they are not going to help you at all.  Just suck your legs up under your chair and do your best to relax.
• As a beginner, we tend to believe that it is all about the stick control, and it is not.  Stick control is only half of it.  The overlooked half, is the throttle control - it takes both left hand and right hand to be perfect!
  • Don't know how you have your stick mounted to your desk / chair / cockpit; however it is, try to press your forearm into something solid so that all of the movements on your stick occur basically with the wrist and hand.  Ultimately, you are looking for very small, subtle little movements on the stick; VERY small and subtle.
  • For most every setup, throttle control requires a movement forward and back, so you can't anchor your elbow or forearm.  As with the stick, VERY small and subtle movements back and forth.  You only want a 1 kt swing in airspeed.  A 3 to 4 kt change in speed as you are at the basket is way too much of a swing.

Here is a practice drill that helped me:

• You do not even attempt to get the probe in the basket with this drill,
• Get close in and have the tanker deploy the basket to length, but this is only so that you can a proper perspective as to the length to what would be your probe,
• Align something that is physically on the HUD inside the jet, with something that is physically on the Tanker,
  • Perhaps that little cross-hair on the HUD with the Engine on the Tanker,
• Simply do your best to keep the two aligned, fly the jet subtly, VERY small movements on the stick and throttle,
• How long can you keep the jet at the tanker at that alignment?  5-Sec, maybe next time 10-Sec, maybe 30?
• You are never going to be perfect, you just need to keep that little cross-hair in close proximity of that engine - be smooth, be subtle!

 

      

Edited September 15, 2022 by CobraKhan
Hadn't finished typing... accidently hit the wrong button and it posted unfinished post.

[Steel Jaw]

Im getting "break away..." when I get near the basket, and Im flying slow and easing it in...is this a bug?

[zildac]

Im getting "break away..." when I get near the basket, and Im flying slow and easing it in...is this a bug?

Happens to me always when in the harrier.

[rob10]

4 hours ago, Steel Jaw said:

Im getting "break away..." when I get near the basket, and Im flying slow and easing it in...is this a bug?

Yes, but when you say that I realize that I haven't had it happening to me lately, so maybe it's partly related to something specific in positioning in relation to the tanker .  Either way, you can safely ignore it most of the time (i.e. when you're not coming in hot and about to crash into the tanker ).

[AegisFX]

8 hours ago, Steel Jaw said:

Im getting "break away..." when I get near the basket, and Im flying slow and easing it in...is this a bug?

What angle are you approaching? I only get this warning if I'm way too close to the wing, or I'm turning/drifting into the fuselage of the tanker.

[Zodiacc]

Practice makes perfect there is no magic tip or trick at all.

Only thing I can say set your tanker around 400-450 tas in mission editor at 10-18k feet which gives you around 350 IAS which makes it more easier compared to slow speeds and when you get contact dont focus on basket.

[FMBluecher]

On 10/1/2022 at 7:48 AM, Steel Jaw said:

Im getting "break away..." when I get near the basket, and Im flying slow and easing it in...is this a bug?

I get this all the time on the KC-130 (but never on the other refueling aircraft). Just ignore it; it doesn't affect your ability to actually get fuel.

[jacobs]

I'll leave another tip, I had a X52 pro and AAR was hard as hell, impossible. Then the X52 finally gave up after long 9 years of AAR-epic-fails and I bought a T16000M HOTAS. This joystick, although cheap, is waaaaaay more precise than the X52. Suddenly AAR became achievable. I can do it on Hornet, Harrier and Mirage. So your joystick/throttle may have a big impact on your AAR...