How do you practice A/A Refueling?

[pete_auau]

I find  doing  aar  in  night or  day  time  alot  easier  using  vr

[Gruman]

It is easier, yes. But once you have your Stick & Throttle under control, its as doable in 2d as well. Just get in some routine and you good to go.

[dburne]

I have a VKB stick with extension and a Virpil throttle and fly in VR, and find AAR difficult as all get out. Still have not managed a successful top off.

[MAXsenna]

6 hours ago, dburne said:

I have a VKB stick with extension and a Virpil throttle and fly in VR, and find AAR difficult as all get out. Still have not managed a successful top off.

You'll get there my friend! Patience and practice makes perfect.  

How you doing post-op? Back in the saddle?

[dburne]

15 hours ago, MAXsenna said:

You'll get there my friend! Patience and practice makes perfect.  

How you doing post-op? Back in the saddle?

Getting closer but not there yet. Surgeon suggested 6 weeks to be safe but feel like I would probably be ok now especially as I am still wearing a soft collar around my neck. This Thursday will be 4 weeks. My follow up with the surgeon is the 26th. Tempting but will see.

The rest of post op doing ok I reckon so far - not much pain any longer.

Thanks for asking!

[atercygnus]

Does anybody uses an axis tune over X and Y axis to make stick movements subtle? I found almost impossigble to do AAR without it, and pretty doable otherwise.

[Shimmergloom667]

3 hours ago, atercygnus said:

Does anybody uses an axis tune over X and Y axis to make stick movements subtle? I found almost impossigble to do AAR without it, and pretty doable otherwise.

Nope, not using extensions, curves or saturation settings here - just not hamfisting it and a bit of practice. Hey, I know people who can refuel flying with keyboard, so I am firmly certain that the equipment is irrelevant, in the grand scheme of things. Is it making it a bit easier? Yeah, probably, but honestly it isn't hard to begin with.

 

[oldcrusty]

3 hours ago, atercygnus said:

Does anybody uses an axis tune over X and Y axis to make stick movements subtle? I found almost impossigble to do AAR without it, and pretty doable otherwise.

Absolutely. I just dumb it down a few notches around the center but... being a gunfighting nut, I dumb it down very little. Otherwise pulling the nose on a bandit gets very jumpy.

2 minutes ago, Shimmergloom667 said:

Nope, not using extensions, curves or saturation settings here - just not hamfisting it and a bit of practice. Hey, I know people who can refuel flying with keyboard, so I am firmly certain that the equipment is irrelevant, in the grand scheme of things. Is it making it a bit easier? Yeah, probably, but honestly it isn't hard to begin with.

 

... and upside down .  Well, that's above my 'paygrade'.

[Dangerzone]

12 hours ago, atercygnus said:

Does anybody uses an axis tune over X and Y axis to make stick movements subtle? I found almost impossigble to do AAR without it, and pretty doable otherwise.

Yes. Without a 'long throw' on the joystick (ie, having a 'desktop version') - some curves definitely help to make inputs a little more precise.  Sure - it can be done without curves but like everything when learning - anything that helps to make it easier at first is a bonus. 

[dburne]

After all the hours I have logged in with the Hornet to date, AAR is still something I just can not do.

 

[Foka]

14 hours ago, atercygnus said:

Does anybody uses an axis tune over X and Y axis to make stick movements subtle? I found almost impossigble to do AAR without it, and pretty doable otherwise.

Depends on the stick. On X52 I did. On stock Warthog I also did. But after installing soft spring and extension I stopped using it.

[atercygnus]

Цитата

But after installing soft spring and extension I stopped using it.

Can you clarify? What is this?
 

Цитата

After all the hours I have logged in with the Hornet to date, AAR is still something I just can not do.

As discussed above, try to make an axis tune, this should help. Adjust Controls -> Pick X axis -> Axis tune(button in the low part of the screen). This will help to make stick movements very precise at the vicinity of neutral position, so, refueling will definitely will be much easier.

[BuzzLine]

For me the key understanding was that I was chasing the basket and constantly overcompensating and was always lagging behind the plane.
It's easier to think of this as docking of two spacecrafts : a bit of lateral thrust will start a lateral drift that will need to be stopped by opposite lateral thrust. Same for all directions.

So the key is first to establish a stable position close to the tanker. Then, in order to plug in, remember that every action will need to be followed by an opposite action once the position is established. "I am left of the basket", a touch of right stick... plane drifting right, alignment good, a touch of left stick... plane stabilizes at the right position. It's even more important with the throttle as the plane takes a while to accelerate and even longer to slow down. (if you're into Control Theory, it's akin to Open Loop control rather than Closed Loop  )

Another trick is to show the FUEL page on a DDI (the right one works better for me), it means less head movement to check how the refueling progresses. On the F16, the BINGO page on the DED show the total fuel at an even more convenient location.

Then practice, practice, practice. But do try to see it as drifting around a stable position. And relax, wiggle your toes (it's a real-life pilot trick but it also work on the simulator !  )

[t1mb0b]

A lot of overthinking here.

Fly in formation until you are comfortable doing that, then get closer.

That is all, there is no quicker or better way imo.

[Steel Jaw]

10 minutes ago, t1mb0b said:

A lot of overthinking here.

Fly in formation until you are comfortable doing that, then get closer.

That is all, there is no quicker or better way imo.

This is it.  Like learning to ride a bike, at some point it just clicks and you get it.

[jaylw314]

True, but people at the beginning of the learning curve need to have a mental framework to hang that practice on to improve from session to session. 

Practice doesn't make perfect.  Perfect practice makes perfect.

[SharpeXB]

On 11/28/2022 at 4:35 AM, atercygnus said:

Does anybody uses an axis tune over X and Y axis to make stick movements subtle? I found almost impossigble to do AAR without it, and pretty doable otherwise.

Yes. Depending on the stick you’re using it can make a lot of sense. FWIW a curve is not unrealistic. A real aircraft is not controlled with a small spring centered tabletop joystick. 

[BuzzLine]

8 hours ago, jaylw314 said:

True, but people at the beginning of the learning curve need to have a mental framework to hang that practice on to improve from session to session. 

Practice doesn't make perfect.  Perfect practice makes perfect.

True story.
"Git gud lol" is not helping anyone, so just be silent if you have nothing more to suggest. All of us have mentioned the value of practice but then we try to help people get to the stage where it "clicks".

I'm often on Discord whenever I'm flying (SP or MP) so flee free to just HMU and if I'm available, I'll happily fly on your wing and share whatever experience I have.

[Waffle 1-1]

I never managed until I tried it in the M-2000C. After a couple of practice rounds over several days, it just sort of clicked and I was able to plug in and stay connected for minutes. Then I tried the Hornet again, and while I struggled more than I did with the Mirage, I managed to plug several times and get the fuel I needed.

Not saying this will work for you, but it's how I learned. Get the frame of reference and experience in a plane you find easy to control and then switch to one that you struggle with a bit more.

[Geoman]

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3306742/

 

I found this training mission extremely helpful. After mastering that, I even manage to refuel via DCS' built-in aerial refueling mission with the dreaded Viking

[atercygnus]

Цитата

I found this training mission extremely helpful. After mastering that, I even manage to refuel via DCS' built-in aerial refueling mission with the dreaded Viking

I was suprised lots of people considering viking as harder to master aar.

For me personally KC-130 brings more troubles.

[fagulha]

24 minutes ago, atercygnus said:

I was suprised lots of people considering viking as harder to master aar.

For me personally KC-130 brings more troubles.

I use the Superhornet AI Tanker to add a new challenge to my AAR.  From the 3 (KC-135, S-3B, and Superhornet AI Tanker) it´s the one more challenging to me

[SharpeXB]

It should be obvious but neither tanker can actually be more difficult to refuel from than the other.

[rob10]

12 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

It should be obvious but neither tanker can actually be more difficult to refuel from than the other.

I would disagree with that.  The S-3 vs the KC-130 have very different turbulence coming off them when in position to refuel (in DCS anyway).  I'm very good at AAR, but the S-3 is trickier.

[SharpeXB]

1 hour ago, rob10 said:

I would disagree with that.  The S-3 vs the KC-130 have very different turbulence coming off them when in position to refuel (in DCS anyway).  I'm very good at AAR, but the S-3 is trickier.

I’ve really never noticed the turbulence much unless (mistakenly) flying right into it behind the tanker. The correct approach avoids this. Go figure. If anything the effect once I’m connected might be a 2% difference between the two planes so just not so noticeable to me. 

Edited December 3, 2022 by SharpeXB