Schoolio64D addresses SAS sat issue

[GrEaSeLiTeNiN]

Ex Apache pilot talks about the problematic SAS... "It's not a normal thing to constantly hear the tone and get the SAS saturated message. In fact, in my 6 years of flying the aircraft I don't remember getting the SAS saturated tone more than a handful of times. Hopefully we see ED make a fix to this soon."

 

[Raptor9]

As has been mentioned many times, the dev team is aware of these issues. These include the flight model, the SCAS logic, and the associated SAS Saturate tone.

It's not for lack of information or feedback, it's a matter of implementing these things correctly, which is quite complex. I feel a lot of people think these things are vastly more simplified than they are in reality. But they are not simple at all.

Believe me when I say that yes, we are aware of it, and yes it is being worked on. Beyond that, I don't know what else I can say regarding this matter.

On the topic of the video itself, I want to clarify that pressing the force trim is not the same thing as disabling the FMC channels in the real aircraft. There is a lot of interwoven logic that occurs within the FMC regardless of whether the force trim is being pressed or not. I'm not sure if the author was referring to the real aircraft or not; I did want to clarify that specific point.

[dedlike.]

i do wonder what the main issue behind the whole flight dynamics of the apache is, there is a lot of talk about the SCAS  getting fixed and tuned but i wonder if the main problem isnt the FM itself, big part of that beeing the roll when you pitch forward, wich acording to some devs here shouldnt even be happening

all im saying is, i hope the SCAS isnt getting "fixed" around a broken flight model since that would be the same as trying to adjust a PID to a bad input in the first place... wich i gues the SCAS kinda is, i have high hopes that ED is aware of that tho!

[kotor633]

That's good to know. And I didn't realize until now how much Apache depends on SCAS.

[Dangerzone]

17 hours ago, dedlike. said:

i do wonder what the main issue behind the whole flight dynamics of the apache is, there is a lot of talk about the SCAS  getting fixed and tuned but i wonder if the main problem isnt the FM itself, big part of that beeing the roll when you pitch forward, wich acording to some devs here shouldnt even be happening

all im saying is, i hope the SCAS isnt getting "fixed" around a broken flight model since that would be the same as trying to adjust a PID to a bad input in the first place... wich i gues the SCAS kinda is, i have high hopes that ED is aware of that tho!

That's a good point you raise.

In fact, if true - that would backup the reasons why Raptor said "It's not for lack of information or feedback, it's a matter of implementing these things correctly, which is quite complex". 

Yes - a  dirty quick approach is just to fix the SAS with the FM as it is now - but ED want to get it right properly - and that is complicated, and will take time.

I wasn't aware of the 'hold down the trim reset for 3 seconds" option though - I'm very much looking forward to using that the next flight and silencing the alarm!

[Nealius]

As complex and time consuming as implementing this properly is, why is it being incrementally released piecemeal into consumer builds for the user to have SAS saturation warning blaring in their ears all the time, rather than developed separately and implemented in consumer builds after it's matured a bit more so as to not cause issues for the consumer? I get "EA" and such, but certain things are more problematic than others when thinking about it rationally rather than absolutely. 

Edited September 14, 2022 by Nealius

[StrongHarm]

It's a good thing that this is Early Access and we've all volunteered to help test and enhance this work in progress... despite the frustrations inherent in the task with even the simplest of software... otherwise people might not understand that this incredibly complex unfinished module is unfinished. /light-hearted sarcasm finished

[Nealius]

It seems my sight's MIL adjustment was set too low for release parameters, making my point fly over the target.

Edited September 14, 2022 by Nealius

[admiki]

13 hours ago, Nealius said:

As complex and time consuming as implementing this properly is, why is it being incrementally released piecemeal into consumer builds for the user to have SAS saturation warning blaring in their ears all the time, rather than developed separately and implemented in consumer builds after it's matured a bit more so as to not cause issues for the consumer? I get "EA" and such, but certain things are more problematic than others when thinking about it rationally rather than absolutely. 

 

I think this was unintended bug more than a feature.

[GrEaSeLiTeNiN]

On 9/13/2022 at 4:57 PM, dedlike. said:

i do wonder what the main issue behind the whole flight dynamics of the apache is, there is a lot of talk about the SCAS  getting fixed and tuned but i wonder if the main problem isnt the FM itself, big part of that beeing the roll when you pitch forward, wich acording to some devs here shouldnt even be happening

all im saying is, i hope the SCAS isnt getting "fixed" around a broken flight model since that would be the same as trying to adjust a PID to a bad input in the first place... wich i gues the SCAS kinda is, i have high hopes that ED is aware of that tho!

I have the same question. Schoolio did not mention the FM in his vids. In fact, I don't recall any real Apache pilots (such as Casmo) saying the FM is 'off'. Their silence seems to suggest they are fine with it. Do point me to a source if you have where a real Apache pilot reviews the FM. I'm interested to know what they think of the FM. In my opinion, as a simmer only with a standard on-the-table warthog hotas, I think the FM was flabbergasting at times when attempting a transition to hover. But the latest update seems to have improved it for me. The SAS sounds are still there but they happen less when you aren't all over the place trying to hover.      

[dedlike.]

vor 26 Minuten schrieb GrEaSeLiTeNiN:

I have the same question. Schoolio did not mention the FM in his vids. In fact, I don't recall any real Apache pilots (such as Casmo) saying the FM is 'off'. Their silence seems to suggest they are fine with it. Do point me to a source if you have where a real Apache pilot reviews the FM. I'm interested to know what they think of the FM. In my opinion, as a simmer only with a standard on-the-table warthog hotas, I think the FM was flabbergasting at times when attempting a transition to hover. But the latest update seems to have improved it for me. The SAS sounds are still there but they happen less when you aren't all over the place trying to hover.      

i think it was another discussion on here talking in general about the scas/FM and some helicopter pilots, i acualy dont think they were apache pilots, did mention that the 4 rotor setup of the apache should mean that we should not have the left roll when pitching forward, for comparion, the huey got a bit of roll(less than the apache) with its 2 rotors while the hind got basicly no roll motion whatsoever with its 5 rotors ... so while im not a real pilot myself i do think something is off with the apache, mostly when it comes to the pitching behavior

 

just to clarify, i did test the hind with all its autopilot channels off

Edited September 15, 2022 by dedlike.

[Raptor9]

3 hours ago, GrEaSeLiTeNiN said:

In fact, I don't recall any real Apache pilots (such as Casmo) saying the FM is 'off'. Their silence seems to suggest they are fine with it. Do point me to a source if you have where a real Apache pilot reviews the FM. I'm interested to know what they think of the FM. 

There are some specific inaccuracies with the flight model. Brad and I have never posted a full review of the flight model anywhere, but both of us have been discussing the accurate/inaccurate aspects of it since release in various threads on the forums. The silence isn't agreement that it is "100% done", but posting an entire review of it on here isn't going to fix the FM. We have however passed along our feedback and the team has been already working on it as previously mentioned in recent months.

3 hours ago, dedlike. said:

 the 4 rotor setup of the apache should mean that we should not have the left roll when pitching forward, for comparion, the huey got a bit of roll(less than the apache) with its 2 rotors while the hind got basicly no roll motion whatsoever with its 5 rotors

The lack of rolling motion isn't due to the number of rotors, it's due to the type of rotor system; and it should be due to a low-G condition.

The Huey (and Cobra) have teetering semi-rigid rotor systems, which means that during an aggressive, low-G pitch down movement they can experience a rolling motion due to the nature of their rotor system design. But it's not because they only have two blades.

[dedlike.]

vor 6 Minuten schrieb Raptor9:

The lack of rolling motion isn't due to the number of rotors, it's due to the type of rotor system; and it should be due to a low-G condition.

The Huey (and Cobra) have teetering semi-rigid rotor systems, which means that during an aggressive, low-G pitch down movement they can experience a rolling motion due to the nature of their rotor system design. But it's not because they only have two blades.

thats interresting, i didnt know that

still makes me wonder if the system the apache is using should roll this much when pitching but im gonna be honest, the roll problem is one of the smaler ones anyways right now

keep up the good work guys!

[Raptor9]

18 minutes ago, dedlike. said:

still makes me wonder if the system the apache is using should roll this much when pitching

No, it shouldn't be rolling. This has already been reported to the dev team.

[Dagobert666]

The Apache is really incredibly exhausting to fly.
I just bought new pedals. I switched from "Thrustmaster TFRP - T.Flight Rudder Pedals" to "VKB-SIM T-RUDDER PEDALS MK.IV". with the Thurstmaster it was just not possible to keep the bird stable. the VKB is fine now, but it's still more tiring than all the other modules.

But no matter how I maneuver the SAS Saturations sound always comes as soon as I do more than fly straight ahead.
It's so annoying that I'm touching the AH64 less and less at the moment. The loud warning tone that cannot be switched off just sucks.

My question to ED:
1. Is it possible to somehow change the sound file or replace it with silence?
2.Is that possible for me as a normal person without modding tools?
3.If so, can someone tell me where I can find the file... I mean the file path.

greet Dagobert.

[Swift.]

5 hours ago, Dagobert666 said:

 

My question to ED:
1. Is it possible to somehow change the sound file or replace it with silence?
2.Is that possible for me as a normal person without modding tools?
3.If so, can someone tell me where I can find the file... I mean the file path.

greet Dagobert.

https://www.476vfightergroup.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=629

Here is a mod to replace it with just a short beep, which is much more pleasant.

[NeedzWD40]

10 hours ago, Dagobert666 said:

If so, can someone tell me where I can find the file... I mean the file path.

Edit this file:
DCS World OpenBeta\Mods\aircraft\AH-64D\Cockpit\Scripts\Computers\CIU\device\CIU_Messages.lua

Under the tones table, find the first instance of "Tones/flt-ctrl" and set it to "" which will remove the SAS saturation warning sound.

Relevant thread:

 

[Dagobert666]

6 hours ago, Swift. said:

https://www.476vfightergroup.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=629

Here is a mod to replace it with just a short beep, which is much more pleasant.

 

1 hour ago, NeedzWD40 said:

Edit this file:
DCS World OpenBeta\Mods\aircraft\AH-64D\Cockpit\Scripts\Computers\CIU\device\CIU_Messages.lua

Under the tones table, find the first instance of "Tones/flt-ctrl" and set it to "" which will remove the SAS saturation warning sound.

Relevant thread:

 

Thanks so much!

[Nealius]

Apparently there's also the option to adjust the "helmet" volume slider. This supposedly adjusts warning volumes that cannot otherwise be controlled by physical knobs in the cockpit in all ED modules, but in 3rd Party modules it will sometimes also affect radios, etc. I haven't flown the Apache in a while to test but it might be worth a try.

[pii]

On 9/13/2022 at 10:49 PM, Dangerzone said:

I'm very much looking forward to using that the next flight and silencing the alarm!

It'll be back in short order.

[hreich]