investigating AI HARM logic

[Exorcet]

This has been the case for a while and may not be a bug per se, but AI SEAD units will tend to fire HARM's at the absolute maximum range. The HARMs still have the ability to hit their targets, but they are only just barely flying when they impact, usually at less than 600 knots.

This makes crosswinds much more difficult for them to handle and also makes them vulnerable to SAM's capable of intercepting missiles like TOR and S-300. I feel like the same is true of other ARM like ALARM.

An option to make AI delay their shots so they are more energetic would fix this, or the AI might have more complex logic added that lets them delay shots if it raises Pk without increasing risk the launching fighter.

I've attached a track to demonstrate. The HARMS to impact the SAM, but barely with any speed.

AI_HARM_Ranging.trk

[toutenglisse]

@Exorcet I concure your observation.

But if it can help, a solution I tried with your .trk example is to set a trigger zone centered on the "engage" zone, with a radius that is the range you want fighter to fire ARMs, and set the fighter's ROE to "Return fire" when outside, and "Priority designated" when inside.

test-Harm-ranging.miz

[Exorcet]

This is a good workaround, thanks for the suggestion. Typically I enforce launch distance with waypoint placement, ie the WP for the attack task is kept within a certain distance of the target. Things are trickier when SAM positions aren't well defined though (like when SAM's are randomly placed in missions).

[Nealius]

An A2G version of the "AA missile attack range" action would be a welcome addition. 

[NineLine]

Thanks guys, I will take a look and talk to the team about it. Perhaps some conditions based on weather need to be applied to the AI's decision making. 

[Exorcet]

2 minutes ago, NineLine said:

Thanks guys, I will take a look and talk to the team about it. Perhaps some conditions based on weather need to be applied to the AI's decision making. 

Thanks for taking a look. I'd also consider some changes even in calm weather, as the slow HARM's are not only vulnerable to wind but also to anti missile platforms like TOR.

@Nealius's suggestion sounds like a good one to me. Perhaps using a range slider like for SAM's instead of the AA version which only has a handful of options. Either would be an improvement though.

[NineLine]

Yes, that is a good idea as well. Even some consideration of the skill level maybe. The AI flies straight towards the sams within the detection zone, and only breaks off right before the engagement zone, so plenty of time to hold and shoot later if needed. 

 

[NineLine]

Actually my first test, I moved your search and engage in zone up and the AI fired the HARM soon as he got there, so basically firing the missile later. So maybe that is the easiest way to get it done?

[Exorcet]

51 minutes ago, NineLine said:

Actually my first test, I moved your search and engage in zone up and the AI fired the HARM soon as he got there, so basically firing the missile later. So maybe that is the easiest way to get it done?

That works for simple cases, and is what I currently do. However it's not really workable in complex missions with many SAM's and even worse, hidden or randomly positioned SAM's. Looking forward to when DCS gets IADS, we'd need more control over launch range/behavior directly.

[NineLine]

Yeah going to play with it some more, because even the limiting of A2G weapon distance could have similar issues.