Is it going to be worth going 3090 to 4090?

[Digitalvole]

I know there’s not a lot of info out yet, and what is out there is from the mouths of the manufacturer so maybe not totally reliable hehe.

But I was wondering what you guys who know about these things think? 

I was planning on getting one, but now I’m not so sure. Especially if big gains are only made using there upscale software (DLsomething or other) which won’t help us much.

Anyhoo, what are your thoughts? I need to know whether or not to activate the part of my brain dedicated to hype.  

 

[Hiob]

Wait for the first bunch of benchmark results (I mean databases like 3DMark). From there you can roughly estimate the gains.

I would be surprised if it is more than 30% in real world applications (that is other than special cases like DLSS and/or raytracing). Which is of coure not nothing.

If you can afford it - go ahead. Why not.

(let's see how real world prices and availability will be)

 

Edited September 21, 2022 by Hiob

[Mars Exulte]

No, it won't. But I've never seen that stop anybody.

[silverdevil]

16 minutes ago, Mars Exulte said:

No, it won't. But I've never seen that stop anybody.

agreed. some people get the latest just so they can say they got the latest. i am sure there will be some improvement in DCS. how much? well that is subjective to say the least.

[Digitalvole]

1 hour ago, Hiob said:

Wait for the first bunch of benchmark results (I mean databases like 3DMark). From there you can roughly estimate the gains.

I would be surprised if it is more than 30% in real world applications (that is other than special cases like DLSS and/or raytracing). Which is of coure not nothing.

If you can afford it - go ahead. Why not.

(let's see how real world prices and availability will be)

 

 

Hmm 30% is tempting. Your last point is going to be the potential fly in the ointment though, guess we’ll have to wait and see. (But I want it now! *stamps feet*)

 

1 hour ago, silverdevil said:

agreed. some people get the latest just so they can say they got the latest. i am sure there will be some improvement in DCS. how much? well that is subjective to say the least.

Though true for some (and let’s be honest, it’s a nice feeling) I just want to be able to fly the AH64 over Syria without lowering my gfx settings. I’m very happy with them for everything else I fly. Also I’d have thought there will be new HMDs between now and Xmas 2023.

[Hiob]

14 minutes ago, Digitalvole said:

Hmm 30% is tempting. Your last point is going to be the potential fly in the ointment though, guess we’ll have to wait and see. (But I want it now! *stamps feet*)

 

Though true for some (and let’s be honest, it’s a nice feeling) I just want to be able to fly the AH64 over Syria without lowering my gfx settings. I’m very happy with them for everything else I fly. Also I’d have thought there will be new HMDs between now and Xmas 2023.

Hmm, flying the Apache over Syria is not even a problem with my 3080 (4K, high settings).

Are you flying in VR? Then consider that GPU-Power alone may not help you, since the limiting factor maybe elsewhere.

I would definitely wait for some facts on how the 4000 Series performes in DCS before throwing money out of the window, especially when "upgrading" from a 3090 (which is certainly no slouch).

Edit: There maybe even performance improvements coming to the Apache still - considering it's in its early EA.

Edit2: Also the 30% are just a wild guess, could be anything really. The point was just, that the gains quoted by Nvidia do probably not apply to DCS.

Edited September 21, 2022 by Hiob

[Hoirtel]

I think of course it will be a basic uplift but being worth it is down to your system and your budget. I run a 3090 with a 9900ks so I am CPU limited and a 4090 will do little without a new machine (I can still fly the 64 over Syria in VR though..)

Nvidia has some major marketing stuff going on there, very difficult to tell what is raw performance over DLSS uplift. Reviews will be everything and of course these will be out for a while so no need to rush!

Interesting that the new DLSS sound very similar to what reprojection does in VR, not a consideration for DCS as DLSS won't be supported, but I do wonder if DLSS and reprojection will play nicely together elsewhere. Probably not...

I was disappointed that with a dedicated section to the "omniverse" (or ominous-verse) there was no mention of VR enhancements or technologies.

[Digitalvole]

3 hours ago, Hiob said:

Hmm, flying the Apache over Syria is not even a problem with my 3080 (4K, high settings).

Are you flying in VR? Then consider that GPU-Power alone may not help you, since the limiting factor maybe elsewhere.

I would definitely wait for some facts on how the 4000 Series performes in DCS before throwing money out of the window, especially when "upgrading" from a 3090 (which is certainly no slouch).

Edit: There maybe even performance improvements coming to the Apache still - considering it's in its early EA.

Edit2: Also the 30% are just a wild guess, could be anything really. The point was just, that the gains quoted by Nvidia do probably not apply to DCS.

 

Yup flying in VR. Waiting for proper benchmarks is deffo the best thing to do, it’s just so boring. Stand down Hype gland.

My system is a 3090, 5900X, 32gb ram on a 1tb nvme. Problem is it’s all wrapped up in an Alienware R10 so, hot and noisy. But I’d preordered a G2 and then all the gpu madness happened so it was my only option to get a 3090. 

I’ve fixed this problem by ordering a new PC with the same cpu and more/faster ram but no GPU. Was going to put the 3090 in there but I’m tempted to just wait till the 4090 comes out and have the R10 for everything that isn’t DCS. Because who doesn’t need a 3090 for turn based strategy games, right?

3 hours ago, Hoirtel said:

Nvidia has some major marketing stuff going on there, very difficult to tell what is raw performance over DLSS uplift. Reviews will be everything and of course these will be out for a while so no need to rush!

Yeah, this is what I thought to. 

Im aware that it’s not all about gpu power, but till we get multithreading I don’t think there is a cpu that will be much better than what I have in any mission with much going on so we just have to make do. I can fly the AH64 in Syria ok, but it’s not very pleasant over a city with the flir on and the pnvs is even worse. Going by fpsvr the gpu is getting hit harder in these situations than the cpu. Hoping a 4090 would help here, I could lower my settings but I don’t want to do that just for one module.

Also I do like new shiny things

 

[Hiob]

@Digitalvole When your 3090 is choked and hot, it may hinder its performance, also consider upgrading your ram to 64GB if you experience problems in syria. (I'm not personally convinced that that is mandatory for syria, but several people seem to believe that.)

[Morat]

I'm going with... maybe

 

I'm running a 3080/9700k/Reverb G2  on OpenXR. It's perfectly fine, for me. I guess I'm lucky in my ability to cope with my framerates (which I can't see anymore because I can no longer run FPSVR).

 

DLSS 3.0 is NEVER arriving for DCS. How do I know that? Well, I don't. But it just seems totally unlikely as ED seem to only develop for non-proprietary protocols and DLSS 3.0 is Lovelace only. So that's a huge amount of wasted silicon in the 40 series right there. The tensor cores in my 3080 haven't ever been used AFAIK and I see no need to buy a card with 3x as many in the future. DCS doesn't use DLSS, doesn't use RayTracing - it's pure rasterisation which AMD seem to be catching up on and fast.

So, I'm waiting until I see rasterisation results for 4080 vs AMD 7900(xt?) before making a call.

EVEN THEN there is the price. F NVidia for selling the 4070 for $900. No way José. So I'm sticking with 3080 unless something magic happens to give a big increase in FPS in VR for DCS on this new gen - and it doesn't cost more than $800 and doesn't burn more than 350W.

For those of us who didn't get a 30 series card, there's a ton showing up on EBay right now. I'd get one of those. They're already down to release MSRP and they'll only fall further. There are complete mining rigs on sale in the UK - let alone China. Some smart guy is going to load a container in Shenzen and ship ex-mining cards to the western markets I bet you.

Edited September 21, 2022 by Morat

[Morat]

43 minutes ago, Digitalvole said:

 Going by fpsvr the gpu is getting hit harder in these situations than the cpu.

 

Does that mean you're still using SteamVR?

[Digitalvole]

3 hours ago, Morat said:

Does that mean you're still using SteamVR?

It does, I tried OpenXR but I found the motion smoothing/asw/some more names I’ve forgotten, too aggressive. Far more jelly wobbles in the cockpit than I get with SVR. It’s a damn shame, because besides that it seems to have many benefits.  Has this been improved in the last couple of months? 

Bloody hell does it look good without it turned on though, I was gob smacked! Sadly 90fps is not going to happen with the 5080 if the cpu side isn’t improved.

3 hours ago, Hiob said:

@Digitalvole When your 3090 is choked and hot, it may hinder its performance, also consider upgrading your ram to 64GB if you experience problems in syria. (I'm not personally convinced that that is mandatory for syria, but several people seem to believe that.)

I’m on it

[FoxTwo]

A fool and his money...

It will be faster than a 3090. Whether that's worth $1700+ to you is another matter.

Personally I'd at least wait for RDNA 3 to see where it falls. There won't be a run on GPUs like there was the last two years.

[Digitalvole]

44 minutes ago, FoxTwo said:

A fool and his money...

It will be faster than a 3090. Whether that's worth $1700+ to you is another matter.

If it wasn’t worth it for me but I still bought it, then I’d be being a fool with my money.

[Morat]

1 hour ago, FoxTwo said:

A fool and his money...

It will be faster than a 3090. Whether that's worth $1700+ to you is another matter.

Personally I'd at least wait for RDNA 3 to see where it falls. There won't be a run on GPUs like there was the last two years.

Agreed!

[Willie Nelson]

Just wait for Multicore…………………………….

[Pyrocumulous]

In VR anyway, the advantage in performance from foveated rendering could make the difference between an otherwise superior Radeon GPU compared to a Geforce GPU at the same price (e.g. 7900XT vs RTX 4080. At least in my Reverb G2, the resolution outside the sweetspot is mostly wasted to my eyes. I only have a 6800xt currently, so I can't compare.

[Topo]

4 hours ago, Pyrocumulous said:

In VR anyway, the advantage in performance from foveated rendering could make the difference between an otherwise superior Radeon GPU compared to a Geforce GPU at the same price (e.g. 7900XT vs RTX 4080. At least in my Reverb G2, the resolution outside the sweetspot is mostly wasted to my eyes. I only have a 6800xt currently, so I can't compare.

I agree; AMD drivers is part of the problem.

Edited September 22, 2022 by Topo

[M1Combat]

21 hours ago, Digitalvole said:

I tried OpenXR but I found the motion smoothing/asw/some more names I’ve forgotten, too aggressive.

Turn that off.  It runs super smooth down to 30FPS without motion smoothing...  Just turn it off.  It's not the same ball of wax as SVR. It's not needed.

[DavePastry]

this just came up on hoggit, unscientific but looking like we can hold onto our 3090's:

 

l

[dburne]

Worth it? Very subjective but for me probably not. I intend to stick with my rockin EVGA 3090 FTW3 Ultra for a while yet. No big hurry to waste money this go around on minimal gains for what we do and definitely in no big hurry to pull that great EVGA card out of my rig anytime soon.

[Supmua]

To each his own but for the last few GPU generations, the upgrades have been worthwhile for me allowing either extra frame rate, higher rendering res (which also means minimizing shimmering), or stability in MP as well as congested areas.  There are some situations in my play that are also CPU bound (though not a whole lot, and nothing that would drag the overall fps below 45), so I’m planning to upgrade the CPU also.  This isn’t just for DCS of course as NVIDIA’s DLSS 2 mode in the other flightsim yields significant performance uplift in VR, and once the new DLSS 3 is VR compatible it will be even better.

3 hours ago, dburne said:

Worth it? Very subjective but for me probably not. I intend to stick with my rockin EVGA 3090 FTW3 Ultra for a while yet. No big hurry to waste money this go around on minimal gains for what we do and definitely in no big hurry to pull that great EVGA card out of my rig anytime soon.

There’s no more EVGA card now Don, they’ve stopped making GPU.

[Tom Kazansky]

12 hours ago, DavePastry said:

this just came up on hoggit, unscientific but looking like we can hold onto our 3090's:

 

l

I wonder how big the difference would have been at 4k or VR with MSAA4.

I will wait for those tests with DCS.

Edited September 23, 2022 by Tom Kazansky

[dburne]

9 hours ago, Supmua said:

To each his own but for the last few GPU generations, the upgrades have been worthwhile for me allowing either extra frame rate, higher rendering res (which also means minimizing shimmering), or stability in MP as well as congested areas.  There are some situations in my play that are also CPU bound (though not a whole lot, and nothing that would drag the overall fps below 45), so I’m planning to upgrade the CPU also.  This isn’t just for DCS of course as NVIDIA’s DLSS 2 mode in the other flightsim yields significant performance uplift in VR, and once the new DLSS 3 is VR compatible it will be even better.

There’s no more EVGA card now Don, they’ve stopped making GPU.

Yeah I know which is why I stated I will probably stay with what I have for now.

[Digitalvole]

I read that Reddit post this morning too, not overflowing with praise hehe.

But, it was 1440p not 4K or VR so there’s still a sliver of hope.

Also, there was an article on PC Gamer this morning basically saying the 4080 looks like awful value for money compared with 3090/3080 4090/4080. But it’s vanished, wonder if Nvidia asked them to take it down?

Finally, Nvidia claim Moore’s law is dead, and that’s why they are charging as much as they are. Hmmm,  suspicious.

For me it’ll be worth it if I can set clouds to ultra, stop needing fsr/shader mod and set view distance to max whilst keeping the performance I have now. This is seeming less and less likely. 
 

On 9/22/2022 at 4:38 PM, M1Combat said:

Turn that off.  It runs super smooth down to 30FPS without motion smoothing...  Just turn it off.  It's not the same ball of wax as SVR. It's not needed.

I wish I had found this to be the case, but sadly not. I found it it wasn’t 90fps it would judder and make my eyes hurt. I’ll try again at some point soon, if I can remember how.

Edited September 23, 2022 by Digitalvole