Is it going to be worth going 3090 to 4090?

[ismaeljorda]

hace 10 horas, some1 dijo:

Your CPU frametimes look really high even on low settings. I wonder if this is Varjo overhead, recording software inssue, or just 5800x3d doing its magic on my system.

Hi Some1, to be honest I do not know. It may be the 5800x3D doing its magic as you say.

Without a doubt, recording penalizes the processor, but I don't know if that much. Other than that I think there was no more background work.

Edited October 21, 2022 by ismaeljorda

[speed-of-heat]

things that i have found that have a surprising impact include things like LED controllers any Realtime monitoring software, tac view, exports via lua (such as used to be done by simapp pro, though recent versions seem to correct this) etc... 

also make sure you have memory integrity turned off

[Supmua]

15 hours ago, TZeer said:

Why not do some testing in an area where CPU bottlenecks are the smallest?

- Either go to the an isolated spot on the Caucasus map, where there are no objects or other parts that will load up the CPU.

- Or go to Nevada, in a spot where there are close to nothing going on.

 

This way you will be able to compare how much an uplift the card itself will give. 

Did this with my setup, steady 90 fps with the Harrier Caucasus Freeflight (one of the VR performance friendly aircrafts) with default VR preset.  This is the first time I hit the magic number and only possible after adding the 4090 to the setup.  I would’ve enjoyed it much more but there’s ongoing stuttering issue with my Aero after the latest NVIDIA driver update which is required for the 4090.

Edited October 21, 2022 by Supmua

[WipeUout]

20 hours ago, some1 said:

Because for me, the mission looks like this:

and for me it's like this at low settings also:

 

[Supmua]

F-16 Syria free flight, Vive Pro at Steam SS 220% (around 3K horizontal and vertical pixels), VR preset but increased texture to high and visibility and water to med, and decreased shadow to low, MSAAx2.  Avg GPU FT 9-10 ms zero spikes.  Avg CPU FT 9-10 but due to intermittent spikes probably from 1% percentile low I'm unable to hit 90 fps, and because of motion smoothing it drops to 45 fps tier.  With stronger CPU than 9900K I might get constant 90 fps.

F-16 Caucasus night free flight, same setting, smooth 90 fps.

Edited October 22, 2022 by Supmua

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

I guess I am posting on this thread:

 

[Nahemoth]

hace 15 horas, Supmua dijo:

F-16 Syria free flight, Vive Pro at Steam SS 220% (around 3K horizontal and vertical pixels), VR preset but increased texture to high and visibility and water to med, and decreased shadow to low, MSAAx2.  Avg GPU FT 9-10 ms zero spikes.  Avg CPU FT 9-10 but due to intermittent spikes probably from 1% percentile low I'm unable to hit 90 fps, and because of motion smoothing it drops to 45 fps tier.  With stronger CPU than 9900K I might get constant 90 fps.

F-16 Caucasus night free flight, same setting, smooth 90 fps.

 

Good to read this, finally I ordered my 4090...

[Supmua]

It looks like the sweet spot for this GPU is around 75% of power limit, according to redditors. With this setting the card draws only 330W while giving out 97-98% of default GPU performance.  This is what I might end up doing in the long run. 

[Supmua]

On 10/22/2022 at 4:40 PM, VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants said:

I guess I am posting on this thread:

 

In this mission the only thing that kills CPU frametime (and overall framerate) is the carrier that is parked at the upper right corner of that airport.  Another setting that can also affect CPU frametime significantly is visibility range, but high is quite acceptable on my current setup never going above 20ms (typically 16-17ms even) unless I fly close to or toward the carrier (went up to 30s).  Once you get out of the starting area looking away from the carrier, it's pretty much smooth 45 fps all the way through those WPs especially after locking frame at 45 fps.  I don't recall getting smooth flying experience in this mission with the 3090 because the GPU frametime could never stay stable enough to create a steady 45 fps.

F-16 Normandy 1944 Free Flight is another good test mission with tons of moving objects and smokes on the ground, again the flying experience is quite smooth at locked 45 fps even when visibility is set at Extreme.  Mariana is just about the only map I tested that extreme visibility is a bad idea (don't have the Channel map but it might be up there too), but it's free and it looks good so can't complain.

Edited October 24, 2022 by Supmua

[speed-of-heat]

 

[j9murphy]

Caucus Free Flight/F18 with same graphics settings on each card in VR and a G2...

2080ti OC GPU frame time- 22ms

4090 FE running at 70% power target - 10ms

I'll take it.  Totally CPU bound now... 

Edited October 25, 2022 by j9murphy

[WipeUout]

Makes you wonder if the jump to 4090 must be followed up with a CPU upgrade to the 13th gen or a 7700x in order to fully unleash it...

 

[speed-of-heat]

12th to 13th is about a 10-15% perf boost max ... the CPU frame time issue needs to be addressed at the software level.

[zildac]

As @speed-of-heat stated, no real benefit from 12th to 13th gen, the bottleneck is still there and will only be addressed by optimisations of the core DCS engine unfortunately....

[Supmua]

The bottleneck is always going to be there as long as GPU and CPU don't have equal power, as the less powerful one will always bottleneck the other.  But it is such a relative term, for example, bottlenecking at 30 fps is no good but bottlenecking at 90fps is fine with me.

[WipeUout]

5 hours ago, Supmua said:

The bottleneck is always going to be there as long as GPU and CPU don't have equal power, as the less powerful one will always bottleneck the other.  But it is such a relative term, for example, bottlenecking at 30 fps is no good but bottlenecking at 90fps is fine with me.

Very good and valid point.  I'm not sure anymore if it would be worth upgrading to 4090 now.  We have 2.8 on the horizon which will have improvement for VR, and also progress on Vulkan and multi-threading which will be implemented first. There is also the 7000 GPUs from team red coming soon that should be more affordable.

I thinking now that a 4090 is a lot of money spent for a marginal improvement and would require to spend even more on another CPU upgrade.  I am very happy with my steady and smooth 72 FPS now.  I will sit and wait for a while.

[j9murphy]

17 hours ago, WipeUout said:

Very good and valid point.  I'm not sure anymore if it would be worth upgrading to 4090 now.  We have 2.8 on the horizon which will have improvement for VR, and also progress on Vulkan and multi-threading which will be implemented first. There is also the 7000 GPUs from team red coming soon that should be more affordable.

I thinking now that a 4090 is a lot of money spent for a marginal improvement and would require to spend even more on another CPU upgrade.  I am very happy with my steady and smooth 72 FPS now.  I will sit and wait for a while.

I know this is totally apples and oranges, but I'll say it anyway, there's another flight sim out there that's not called fs2020 which a few years ago went to vulcan... did zippy for fps, almost no change at all in VR, it did however make it much smoother and more consistent which is better in some ways, since a stable 45fps is better than a jittery 90fps for most people:)

[Spectre1986]

7 hours ago, j9murphy said:

I know this is totally apples and oranges, but I'll say it anyway, there's another flight sim out there that's not called fs2020 which a few years ago went to vulcan... did zippy for fps, almost no change at all in VR, it did however make it much smoother and more consistent which is better in some ways, since a stable 45fps is better than a jittery 90fps for most people:)

Vulkan made a MASSIVE difference in my XP11 VR FPS and overall experience on day one, similar experiences were widely reported. I'm not sure what was wrong with your system if you're talking about the same sim...

[Tom Kazansky]

7 minutes ago, Spectre1986 said:

Vulkan made a MASSIVE difference in my XP11 VR FPS and overall experience on day one, similar experiences were widely reported. I'm not sure what was wrong with your system if you're talking about the same sim...

DCS is not openGL like XP11 was. So I would not expect that "MASSIVE" gain here. And there is no AMD/ATI penalty in DCS like it was in XP11.

[GunSlingerOZ]

On 10/26/2022 at 6:01 AM, speed-of-heat said:

12th to 13th is about a 10-15% perf boost max ... the CPU frame time issue needs to be addressed at the software level.

I honestly believe it's more likely we'll see CPUs get 50% faster in about 5 years time, before DCS fixes the single thread choke up.

Edited October 27, 2022 by GunSlingerOZ

[ismaeljorda]

 

[Supmua]

2 hours ago, ismaeljorda said:

 

Nice! This is exactly what I wanted to see.  It looks like having a large L3 cache does help quite a bit, up to 2-3ms CPU frametime reduction.  This is a good test because not only CPU but also GPU are being equally pushed.  How about 5800X3D vs an Intel CPU if you have access to one?  The upcoming Ryzen 3D should be even better for sims.

Still, this is nothing compared to GPU performance jump from 3090 to 4090, I'm seeing up to 9ms frametime improvement in GPU which is 3x of this CPU performance uplift.

Edited October 27, 2022 by Supmua

[Tom Kazansky]

2 hours ago, ismaeljorda said:

 

I appreciate all of your benchmark videos. They give a lot of answers to many questions I have with the 4090.

I'm still interested in the impact of recording software on frametimes.

Is it possible for you to compare your recorded videos with what you see when you watch your track(s) without recording? (Maybe by making a smartphone camera video? I would also trust your impressions without such a recording, tho.)

[Supmua]

It seems more cable melting issues have been reported, so it might be a good idea to avoid using the NVIDIA’s flimsy adapter that comes with your 4090 if you can.  So far there’s been no reported issue with proprietary cables. Either get those directly from manufacturers or buy an ATX 3.0 PSU that comes with the cable. 

[okopanja]

Reality check:

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