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Is it going to be worth going 3090 to 4090?


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2 hours ago, Supmua said:

Nice! This is exactly what I wanted to see.  It looks like having a large L3 cache does help quite a bit, up to 2-3ms CPU frametime reduction.  This is a good test because not only CPU but also GPU are being equally pushed.  How about 5800X3D vs an Intel CPU if you have access to one?  The upcoming Ryzen 3D should be even better for sims.

Still, this is nothing compared to GPU performance jump from 3090 to 4090, I'm seeing up to 9ms frametime improvement in GPU which is 3x of this CPU performance uplift.

 

Tom's hardware released their 13700k review earlier today and benched both amd and intel on FS2020.  It also shows a massive advantage to a larger L3 Cache giving the AMD 5800X3D the edge over intel in that one benchmark.  As we all know flightsim has different behavior that regular "gaming" and not all flightsims are created equal, but it does seem that L3 cache is a big advantage for flightsim.

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3 hours ago, Supmua said:

It seems more cable melting issues have been reported, so it might be a good idea to avoid using the NVIDIA’s flimsy adapter that comes with your 4090 if you can.  So far there’s been no reported issue with proprietary cables. Either get those directly from manufacturers or buy an ATX 3.0 PSU that comes with the cable. 

 

Yikes! Yeah a new PSU might be a very smart idea. Probably much less happening with proprietary due to there being such a small number being used currently.  Personally glad I am still holding off upgrading over my EVGA 3090 FTW3 Ultra.

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2 hours ago, dburne said:

 

Yikes! Yeah a new PSU might be a very smart idea. Probably much less happening with proprietary due to there being such a small number being used currently.  Personally glad I am still holding off upgrading over my EVGA 3090 FTW3 Ultra.

According to Igor's lab, the problem starts when you bend the cable sideways as the soldering on the edge of the connector appears flimsy and the wire connection can break off at that spot.  It's a good thing that I'm already using ATX 3.0 PSU.


Edited by Supmua

PC: 5800X3D/4090, 11700K/3090, 9900K/2080Ti.

Joystick bases: TMW, VPC WarBRD, MT50CM2, VKB GFII, FSSB R3L

Joystick grips: TM (Warthog, F/A-18C), Realsimulator (F-16SGRH, F-18CGRH), VKB (Kosmosima LH, MCG, MCG Pro), VPC MongoosT50-CM2

Throttles: TMW, Winwing Super Taurus, Logitech Throttle Quadrant, Realsimulator Throttle (soon)

VR: HTC Vive/Pro, Oculus Rift/Quest 2, Valve Index, Varjo Aero, https://forum.dcs.world/topic/300065-varjo-aero-general-guide-for-new-owners/

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I just want my 4090!

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  • 2 weeks later...

Well, my 2 cents and non exhaustive testing.... 12900k/3090/4090

Generally with my (mid/high) settings I was getting like 12-15ms frame times with my 3090. And now with the 4090 its literally like half i.e. 7-8ms. On most maps that I did a quick check of. 

Problem though. My CPU times offline are like 5-7ms (so, 5-7ms+7ms = 90FPS just fine) so looks/feels great offline on empty maps... However if I join an MP server with units, I'm often seeing 10-16ms frametimes. So basically 45fps locked at the worst case, and then like 60's-70's on the upper end, when the CPU time is low. 

 

I did also see some major uptics in "other" sims. 

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A little off-topic: is it hard to install a 4090 by myself, even if I have no previous experience with PCE cards? I am worried about the cable thingy.

VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants -- this is how I fly. We do not fly at treetop height, we fly between trees(TM)

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hace 14 minutos, VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants dijo:

A little off-topic: is it hard to install a 4090 by myself, even if I have no previous experience with PCE cards? I am worried about the cable thingy.

It is nothing complicated. You just have to be careful to plug it correctly and firmly into the PCI-e port and secure it with the screws. Make sure you have 4 PCI-e connections on the PSU and firmly connect the splitter to each of the cables.

When you connect the splitter to the card make sure you do it right and push it all the way in because sometimes it stays about 1mm apart and it can be one of the causes of the burned connectors.

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5 minutes ago, ismaeljorda said:

It is nothing complicated. You just have to be careful to plug it correctly and firmly into the PCI-e port and secure it with the screws. Make sure you have 4 PCI-e connections on the PSU and firmly connect the splitter to each of the cables.

When you connect the splitter to the card make sure you do it right and push it all the way in because sometimes it stays about 1mm apart and it can be one of the causes of the burned connectors.

Big thanks. About from plugging in such a huge card, I am a bit worried about the cable management too.

VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants -- this is how I fly. We do not fly at treetop height, we fly between trees(TM)

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCc9BDi-STaqgWsjNiHbW0fA

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There’re a lot of reports on Reddit now regarding burnt/cracked/melted cable at the socket connector. Unfortunately there’s still no clear concensus on the actual cause.  NVIDIA has sold around 100,000 of the 4090 so the reported cases are still on the small side.  I do smell incoming law suits though. 
 

I think it’s important to keep tab of your GPU temp, case temp, etc. at all time at least for now. Maybe even leave the PC case partially open so you can smell the burn.  I’ve been checking my GPU cable weekly and so far so good (not touching the NVIDIA adapter).  Definitely need to make sure that the plug goes in all the way, in my case there is a nice click when it does. 


Edited by Supmua

PC: 5800X3D/4090, 11700K/3090, 9900K/2080Ti.

Joystick bases: TMW, VPC WarBRD, MT50CM2, VKB GFII, FSSB R3L

Joystick grips: TM (Warthog, F/A-18C), Realsimulator (F-16SGRH, F-18CGRH), VKB (Kosmosima LH, MCG, MCG Pro), VPC MongoosT50-CM2

Throttles: TMW, Winwing Super Taurus, Logitech Throttle Quadrant, Realsimulator Throttle (soon)

VR: HTC Vive/Pro, Oculus Rift/Quest 2, Valve Index, Varjo Aero, https://forum.dcs.world/topic/300065-varjo-aero-general-guide-for-new-owners/

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@ismaeljordaImpressive performance from the 4090.  Seems though that your CPU frame time is higher with the 4090 than with the 3090.  Can you explain this?

I ran the mission directly and I am getting CPU frame time between 14ms and 18ms.  I tend to believe that although the 5800x3D is very good, it does not reach the performance of a 12th gen i7 in DCS. 


Edited by WipeUout

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6 hours ago, WipeUout said:

@ismaeljordaImpressive performance from the 4090.  Seems though that your CPU frame time is higher with the 4090 than with the 3090.  Can you explain this?

I ran the mission directly and I am getting CPU frame time between 14ms and 18ms.  I tend to believe that although the 5800x3D is very good, it does not reach the performance of a 12th gen i7 in DCS. 

 

It depends on what you use to track the CPU frametime.  If you use OXRTK the reported number might be lower than fpsVR especially if it’s the older version.  In MSFS when I used the older version of OXRTK the CPU FT was off by 5ms when I had fpsVR running along side by side.

I’ll run that mission and check those numbers.  CPU FT number also depends on the rendering resolution as well as VR API (OpenXR, OpenVR).  For direct comparison it’s better to use the exact same settings including OpenVR mode and rendering res.

EDIT: that mission uses Su27 which I don't have, oh well.  Anyway, ran a comparison test between my preferred setting and High preset and there's an uptick of GPU FT by 5ms and CPU FT by 3ms and very small visual differences in VR so the performance tax isn't really worth it for me.


Edited by Supmua

PC: 5800X3D/4090, 11700K/3090, 9900K/2080Ti.

Joystick bases: TMW, VPC WarBRD, MT50CM2, VKB GFII, FSSB R3L

Joystick grips: TM (Warthog, F/A-18C), Realsimulator (F-16SGRH, F-18CGRH), VKB (Kosmosima LH, MCG, MCG Pro), VPC MongoosT50-CM2

Throttles: TMW, Winwing Super Taurus, Logitech Throttle Quadrant, Realsimulator Throttle (soon)

VR: HTC Vive/Pro, Oculus Rift/Quest 2, Valve Index, Varjo Aero, https://forum.dcs.world/topic/300065-varjo-aero-general-guide-for-new-owners/

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On 11/8/2022 at 9:25 AM, Supmua said:

There’re a lot of reports on Reddit now regarding burnt/cracked/melted cable at the socket connector. Unfortunately there’s still no clear concensus on the actual cause.  NVIDIA has sold around 100,000 of the 4090 so the reported cases are still on the small side.  I do smell incoming law suits though. 
 

I think it’s important to keep tab of your GPU temp, case temp, etc. at all time at least for now. Maybe even leave the PC case partially open so you can smell the burn.  I’ve been checking my GPU cable weekly and so far so good (not touching the NVIDIA adapter).  Definitely need to make sure that the plug goes in all the way, in my case there is a nice click when it does. 

 

 

Yeah IDK, the connector is a bit jank IMO, and you can run it with only 3 PCIE cables (using one as a double). I think people bending that connector is a very likely issue, since it sticks out from the case so far. I've checked mine a few times and its straight/slightly drooping for about 30mm ~1". And so far it seems fine. 

Also it sounds like some of the PSU manufacturers are making 3-4x PCIE cables to that adapter themselves to help with cabling issues. 

New hotness: I7 9700k 4.8ghz, 32gb ddr4, 2080ti, :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, HP Reverb (formermly CV1)

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And interestingly there’s nothing much about the melting stuff on overclock.net forum at all.  These are the hardcore people that would typically push their setups to the max, including water cooling or even shunting.  You would think the problem would be more prevalent among that group.  May be they’re more meticulous about what they do in terms of setting up and plugging things in correctly compared to general redditors?


Edited by Supmua

PC: 5800X3D/4090, 11700K/3090, 9900K/2080Ti.

Joystick bases: TMW, VPC WarBRD, MT50CM2, VKB GFII, FSSB R3L

Joystick grips: TM (Warthog, F/A-18C), Realsimulator (F-16SGRH, F-18CGRH), VKB (Kosmosima LH, MCG, MCG Pro), VPC MongoosT50-CM2

Throttles: TMW, Winwing Super Taurus, Logitech Throttle Quadrant, Realsimulator Throttle (soon)

VR: HTC Vive/Pro, Oculus Rift/Quest 2, Valve Index, Varjo Aero, https://forum.dcs.world/topic/300065-varjo-aero-general-guide-for-new-owners/

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1 minute ago, Supmua said:

And interestingly there’s nothing much about the melting stuff on overclock.net forum at all.  These are the hardcore people that would typically push their setups to the max, including water cooing or even shunting.  You would think the problem would be more prevalent among that group.  May be they’re more meticulous about what they do in terms of setting up and plugging things in correctly compared to general redditors?

Yeah honestly it does sound a bit suspect. I've got an MSI water cooled card, so maybe the issue is also card/case specific. I have plenty of room for the connector as well. 

New hotness: I7 9700k 4.8ghz, 32gb ddr4, 2080ti, :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, HP Reverb (formermly CV1)

Old-N-busted: i7 4720HQ ~3.5GHZ, +32GB DDR3 + Nvidia GTX980m (4GB VRAM) :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, Rift CV1 (yes really).

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7 hours ago, Harlikwin said:

Yeah honestly it does sound a bit suspect. I've got an MSI water cooled card, so maybe the issue is also card/case specific. I have plenty of room for the connector as well. 

I bought the same card and it arrives tomorrow.  So excited!!

If the issue is due to cramped cases, I won't have that problem with my big refrigerator case (TT View 71) and since the card is hybrid, I may even vertical mount again if it lessens the bend in the cable.

 

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I see IsmaelJorda already posted videos above which are all very good. My setup is i9-13900k/4090 so might be good to look at after those. In the video below, was testing with the F-15C in Syria map.

If you already have a 3090 and if you find it adequate for what you need it to do then you should be fine. My old setup was a 2080ti so I was -not- fine in VR.

Below is the video

 


Edited by sandboxcode
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  • 4 weeks later...

Just got my 4090 and wow!

Did two tests where I usually had subpar performance with my 3080, with the same settings, HP reverb G2.

SA map in a snow storm on the ground:

3080: low 30s (28-35fps)

4090: 80-90fps (!!)

Cold and dark on a crowded Supercarrier in Syria:

3080: high 30s (33-40 fps)

4090: 70s (65-75fps)

Looking forward to continue testing and the long awaited Varjo Aero (most likely arriving next week)

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https://www.youtube.com/@Willdass

Setup: VPC Warbrd with TM F/A-18 stick on 10cm extension, Realsimulator FSSB-R3 MK II Ultra with F16SGRH grip, Winwing Super Taurus throttle, SimGears F-16 ICP, Winwing Combat and Take Off Panels, TM TPR Pendular Rudders,  3x TM Cougar MFD's, Simshaker Jetpad, Wacom Intuos S for OpenKneeboard.

 PC: RTX 4090, Ryzen 7 5800X3D, 64gb RAM 3600mhz, Varjo Aero, HP Reverb G2, Meta Quest Pro

 

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1 hour ago, Willdass said:

Just got my 4090 and wow!

Did two tests where I usually had subpar performance with my 3080, with the same settings, HP reverb G2.

SA map in a snow storm on the ground:

3080: low 30s (28-35fps)

4090: 80-90fps (!!)

Cold and dark on a crowded Supercarrier in Syria:

3080: high 30s (33-40 fps)

4090: 70s (65-75fps)

Looking forward to continue testing and the long awaited Varjo Aero (most likely arriving next week)

Yeah I'd be interested to see how much of a drop you see with a G2 vs aero with the same settings. 

New hotness: I7 9700k 4.8ghz, 32gb ddr4, 2080ti, :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, HP Reverb (formermly CV1)

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23 minutes ago, Harlikwin said:

Yeah I'd be interested to see how much of a drop you see with a G2 vs aero with the same settings. 

Same! Will update here!

https://www.youtube.com/@Willdass

Setup: VPC Warbrd with TM F/A-18 stick on 10cm extension, Realsimulator FSSB-R3 MK II Ultra with F16SGRH grip, Winwing Super Taurus throttle, SimGears F-16 ICP, Winwing Combat and Take Off Panels, TM TPR Pendular Rudders,  3x TM Cougar MFD's, Simshaker Jetpad, Wacom Intuos S for OpenKneeboard.

 PC: RTX 4090, Ryzen 7 5800X3D, 64gb RAM 3600mhz, Varjo Aero, HP Reverb G2, Meta Quest Pro

 

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19 hours ago, Willdass said:

Just got my 4090 and wow!

Did two tests where I usually had subpar performance with my 3080, with the same settings, HP reverb G2.

SA map in a snow storm on the ground:

3080: low 30s (28-35fps)

4090: 80-90fps (!!)

....

I believe it is not the card itself, but the unknown wild DCS card which makes one PC run VR smoothly and the second indentical one poorly. I had stellar performance until I reinstalled WMR software and it runs sucky since. I reinstalled <profanity> again and again, drivers, beta steamvrs, this, that, never got the smoothness back. But good for you.

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Well, no. The jump in performance is not worth such a high price. 
Also, software optimization is more important than the hardware used.

But if people want to throw away money, who am I to disagree? It’s not rational behavior, so one should do as they please. 


Edited by dawgie79
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Well color me irrational, but I am really happy with my purchase.

Heck, over the years I have built 3 SLI rigs and DCS was one of the main reasons, lol!

A mans gotta do what a mans gotta do!

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4 hours ago, dawgie79 said:

Well, no. The jump in performance is not worth such a high price. 
Also, software optimization is more important than the hardware used.

But if people want to throw away money, who am I to disagree? It’s not rational behavior, so one should do as they please. 

Not arguing that they are resonably priced but, I bought the 3080 new in 2020 for 1200USD and got the 4090 for 2200 USD and sold my 3080 for 700USD now = 1500USD for this upgrade (Norwegian prices converted to USD). 4090 retails for 2200-2700 USD here in Norway.

So I over doubled my performance for 300USD more than my initial 3080 purchase. Granted the 3080 prices were also horrible. 

You could argue that no hobby expense is rational. I'm happy with the purchase as this is my main hobby other than my dog 🙂

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https://www.youtube.com/@Willdass

Setup: VPC Warbrd with TM F/A-18 stick on 10cm extension, Realsimulator FSSB-R3 MK II Ultra with F16SGRH grip, Winwing Super Taurus throttle, SimGears F-16 ICP, Winwing Combat and Take Off Panels, TM TPR Pendular Rudders,  3x TM Cougar MFD's, Simshaker Jetpad, Wacom Intuos S for OpenKneeboard.

 PC: RTX 4090, Ryzen 7 5800X3D, 64gb RAM 3600mhz, Varjo Aero, HP Reverb G2, Meta Quest Pro

 

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