Full Screen select problem

[wilbur81]

16 hours ago, 84-Simba said:

 

So ... this update brought something that changes nothing for some users and is worse for others.

This is what I call a relative failure, or partial failure.

Agreed. My micro-stuttering is terrible now... with no solution (which the old Alt-Enter absolutely did provide quite definitively before).

[BIGNEWY]

Have a read of this microsoft devblog it may help explain the need for the change

https://devblogs.microsoft.com/directx/demystifying-full-screen-optimizations/

it also has some advice

[84-Simba]

9 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

Have a read of this microsoft devblog it may help explain the need for the change

https://devblogs.microsoft.com/directx/demystifying-full-screen-optimizations/

it also has some advice

Thank you but I don't understand your point.

The blog says that Windows did a new thing that tricks the game by making it believing it is in fullscreen while it is in bordeless ...

I get their point for overlays, alt+tab, etc ... I can understand that.

But in what did you have to modify DCS then if this process is in Windows directly and is desactivable for people that do not need it ?

 

[BIGNEWY]

Alt + enter is no longer needed in windows 10+ and the FPS issues we were seeing are resolved. 

If you are seeing issues now like jitter or tearing or with performance it is most likely something else creating the issue, and will need investigating. 

For those who are seeing issues please try this and let us know if you see a difference 

1. Right Click on the Executable File (.exe) and Select Properties 
2. Select the Compatibility Tab 
3. Under Settings – Select “Disable Fullscreen Optimizations” 
4. Click Apply  
   
   Now test and let us know the results.

[84-Simba]

7 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

Alt + enter is no longer needed in windows 10+ and the FPS issues we were seeing are resolved. 

If you are seeing issues now like jitter or tearing or with performance it is most likely something else creating the issue, and will need investigating. 

For those who are seeing issues please try this and let us know if you see a difference 

1. Right Click on the Executable File (.exe) and Select Properties 
2. Select the Compatibility Tab 
3. Under Settings – Select “Disable Fullscreen Optimizations” 
4. Click Apply  
   
   Now test and let us know the results.

And there you are again ignoring what has been said.

It is needed because performance have degraded.

And as you might have read in this thread, I did that test and while it felt a bit better, it was in all cases worse than it was before.

Maybe for the sake of it I will try to roll back to the previous version.

[BIGNEWY]

54 minutes ago, 84-Simba said:

And there you are again ignoring what has been said.

It is needed because performance have degraded.

And as you might have read in this thread, I did that test and while it felt a bit better, it was in all cases worse than it was before.

Maybe for the sake of it I will try to roll back to the previous version.

I replied to you, you said you dont understand my point, and I replied Alt+enter is no longer needed and the blog explained why, I also gave you something to try to see if it would help. I will refrain next time. 
 

[silverdevil]

59 minutes ago, 84-Simba said:

And there you are again ignoring what has been said.

It is needed because performance have degraded.

And as you might have read in this thread, I did that test and while it felt a bit better, it was in all cases worse than it was before.

Maybe for the sake of it I will try to roll back to the previous version.

i think it is you that is not listening to what is said. no matter what anyone posts you come up with the same debate. Alt-Enter was taken away and now DCS has performance problems. you have been able to reword the same sentence 30 different times. ok we get it. we also get that not everyone is having an issue. a greater majority do not or are not posting about it. i never had to use Alt-Enter. i start DCS fly around. enjoy the scenery. go about my business. i also try to assist users in the forums with questions i can answer. so does bignewy, flappie, etc. ranting and tantrums are not going to help anyone. give it a rest. it will surely get better.

[84-Simba]

11 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

I replied to you, you said you dont understand my point, and I replied Alt+enter is no longer needed and the blog explained why, I also gave you something to try to see if it would help. I will refrain next time. 
 

No, I asked why that Windows implementation needed you to do modifications and you reply that the previous state''it is not needed anymore'' while I report that some people were not experiencing any changes (so not better) and while others reported a degradation.

The blog is clear and how windows works and what can be done to not use that, and the workaround has been explained and tried in the answers before with report.

You just did not replied to my question.

[BIGNEWY]

2 minutes ago, 84-Simba said:

No, I asked why that Windows implementation needed you to do modifications and you reply that the previous state''it is not needed anymore'' while I report that some people were not experiencing any changes (so not better) and while others reported a degradation.

The blog is clear and how windows works and what can be done to not use that, and the workaround has been explained and tried in the answers before with report.

You just did not replied to my question.

The windows blog explains why alt+enter is not needed any more, that is why it was removed from DCS, it also fixed a FPS issue when switching. 

If you are still seeing a problem I think we need to take a closer look at your setup 

Can you PM me your NVIDIA settings, a screen shot of your DCS settings, dcs log and dxdiag, I will try to help you. 

Also let me know if you have hardware acceleration enabled in windows 
 

[Nevyn]

I have been running the Disable Fullscreen Optimizations option since this "fix" was implemented, it was the first thing I thought of doing, it makes no difference.

Edited October 13, 2022 by Nevyn

[84-Simba]

1 minute ago, BIGNEWY said:

The windows blog explains why alt+enter is not needed any more, that is why it was removed from DCS, it also fixed a FPS issue when switching. 

If you are still seeing a problem I think we need to take a closer look at your setup 

Can you PM me your NVIDIA settings, a screen shot of your DCS settings, dcs log and dxdiag, I will try to help you. 

Also let me know if you have hardware acceleration enabled in windows 
 

And again, you cramp on your position that it wasn't needed anymore while you have reports that the results are fairly mixed.

I agree with you with the fact that when doing alt+tab, the FPS were dropping and that is not the case anymore.

BUT, when you focused with alt+enter the game was running better.

Here are the results of the tests I've just finished.

Be aware that I'm 60fps locked for TrackIr.

current build : 2-3 fps drop in general but the fps are kinda all over the place (up to 10-11 fps drop)

current build with the fullscreen optimization unchecked : same.

build 2.7.17.29140 in alt+enter : performance slightly better overall (2-3 fps higher) but most importantly, I do not observe nothing more than 5 fps less and the game is way smoother then.

Those tests have been done back-to-back in the very same conditions, same exports running, same Ryzen Master profile, etc ...

And I took on me to update the GPU and chipset drivers before testing (even if I'm always cautious with AMD)

You wanted numbers, you got them.

[BIGNEWY]

13 minutes ago, 84-Simba said:

And again, you cramp on your position that it wasn't needed anymore while you have reports that the results are fairly mixed.

I agree with you with the fact that when doing alt+tab, the FPS were dropping and that is not the case anymore.

BUT, when you focused with alt+enter the game was running better.

Here are the results of the tests I've just finished.

Be aware that I'm 60fps locked for TrackIr.

current build : 2-3 fps drop in general but the fps are kinda all over the place (up to 10-11 fps drop)

current build with the fullscreen optimization unchecked : same.

build 2.7.17.29140 in alt+enter : performance slightly better overall (2-3 fps higher) but most importantly, I do not observe nothing more than 5 fps less and the game is way smoother then.

Those tests have been done back-to-back in the very same conditions, same exports running, same Ryzen Master profile, etc ...

And I took on me to update the GPU and chipset drivers before testing (even if I'm always cautious with AMD)

You wanted numbers, you got them.

Have you considered the slight FPS drop you are seeing is not related to the Alt+enter but related to the patch itself? Something else. 

Again if you want help please send me the data and I am happy to take a look at it. 

 Can you PM me your NVIDIA settings, a screen shot of your DCS settings, dcs log and dxdiag, and a track replay showing the fps drop if it is something noticeable in a track replay. 

[84-Simba]

2 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

Have you considered the slight FPS drop you are seeing is not related to the Alt+enter but related to the patch itself? Something else. 

Again if you want help please send me the data and I am happy to take a look at it. 

 Can you PM me your NVIDIA settings, a screen shot of your DCS settings, dcs log and dxdiag, and a track replay showing the fps drop if it is something noticeable in a track replay. 

Of course it is possible.

What would it be then ?

Because we did not see that alt+enter reference in the change log.

What else did you change that we do not know that could have that impact ?

Again ... and again. It appears to be the hell for you to acknowledge a potential problem.

You answer is you standard ''it's something else''.

''Slight fps drop'' ? 10 to 11 on a 60 lock is quite noticeable, especially when it occurs ''randomly'', meaning killing the smoothness.

Thank you for your time but I'm quite sure you won't pay attention to what I would send to you, as you did in that thread by obviously not reading what has been said (ex, you asked me 2 times to send NVIDIA settings while I said already several times that I was running AMD)

I've done tests and I gave you numbers.

As someone said, I'm repeating myself and it ends where it is everytime - no problem, look elsewhere.

[BIGNEWY]

16 minutes ago, 84-Simba said:

Of course it is possible.

What would it be then ?

Because we did not see that alt+enter reference in the change log.

What else did you change that we do not know that could have that impact ?

Again ... and again. It appears to be the hell for you to acknowledge a potential problem.

You answer is you standard ''it's something else''.

''Slight fps drop'' ? 10 to 11 on a 60 lock is quite noticeable, especially when it occurs ''randomly'', meaning killing the smoothness.

Thank you for your time but I'm quite sure you won't pay attention to what I would send to you, as you did in that thread by obviously not reading what has been said (ex, you asked me 2 times to send NVIDIA settings while I said already several times that I was running AMD)

I've done tests and I gave you numbers.

As someone said, I'm repeating myself and it ends where it is everytime - no problem, look elsewhere.

Ive asked for more info from you, if you want me to look at your case in particular please send me the data I have requested. 

regarding AMD send me your AMD control panel settings

[wilbur81]

5 hours ago, Nevyn said:

I have been running the Disable Fullscreen Optimizations option since this "fix" was implemented, it was the first thing I thought of doing, it makes no difference.

 

agreed... it makes no difference. Additionally, for me... I do not have a FPS drop at all. It is a consistent, rhythmic stutter... particularly when looking at terrain. It's like there's nothing 'smoothing out' the transition between frames. 

What I need to do when I can find the time (though if someone can beat me to it, more power to you) is this: Film some game play on my screen with my phone (real time) playing the O.B. prior to the patch in question...then hit Alt+Enter to show the difference it used to make. Then, film the screen live again on the new O.B. without the Alt+Enter option to give a sense of what I'm experiencing/trying to describe above...

Edited October 13, 2022 by wilbur81

[Boosterdog]

On 10/13/2022 at 3:04 PM, wilbur81 said:

agreed... it makes no difference. Additionally, for me... I do not have a FPS drop at all. It is a consistent, rhythmic stutter... particularly when looking at terrain. It's like there's nothing 'smoothing out' the transition between frames. 

 

This is and always was my experience.  Looking out of the out to sides seems to be worst case. Nothing to do with the fps ED seem to have focussed on. The official responses in this thread and others and the passage of time without any meaningful action is very discouraging. 
 

[Hiob]

36 minutes ago, Boosterdog said:

This is and always was my experience.  Looking out of the out to sides seems to be worst case. Nothing to do with the fps ED seem to have focussed on. The official responses in this thread and others and the passage of time without any meaningful action is very discouraging. 
 

The problem is probably hard to nail down, since it is not happening to everyone. I have a similar setup to yours but no fullscreen related problems at all. I have the impact from the shadows on general fps, but no stuttering or any degradation from fullscreen/none-fullscreen. The people I fly with also don't report any issues as far as I'm aware of.

What ever combination of factors it is - "random" issues are harder to squish I assume.

[Boosterdog]

2 hours ago, Hiob said:

The problem is probably hard to nail down, since it is not happening to everyone. I have a similar setup to yours but no fullscreen related problems at all. I have the impact from the shadows on general fps, but no stuttering or any degradation from fullscreen/none-fullscreen. The people I fly with also don't report any issues as far as I'm aware of.

What ever combination of factors it is - "random" issues are harder to squish I assume.

Totally - But putting it back is presumably far easier than quashing random bugs given the stated reson for taking it out was affected people randomly as well (like never for me)