13mm Gun almost useless?

[Kobymaru]

I don't understand how ammunition in this game is supposed to work.

Just flew a match vs two AI P-51D's. I made some 13mm hits, but the first AI didn't care too much. Eventually got it with the 30mm.

But I ran out of 30mm for the second one, so I unloaded half my ammo into the second P-51, but it just kept flying. Eventually I managed to disable its engine, the plane looked like swiss cheese, but it still kept flying. Made a lot more hits on it, but eventually I ran out of ammo. The enemy plane happily glided home, completely undisturbed by being hit.

What's going on? Was real 13mm ammo this weak? Is it the AIs that are the problem? Did I do something wrong? It's just confusing to me why it is this weak.

The other day I flew the "Project Kraftwerk Nord-West" mission, and I completely failed to shoot down those A-20 . I didn't fail to hit them, but I did run out of ammo from the strafing runs that were only enough to get 1-2 out of the fight.

Just how many bullets are planes expected to be able to take?

 

Edited September 29, 2022 by Kobymaru

[Kobymaru]

BTW, this is a quote from the official Bf-109 manual:

Quote

An important fact that must be mentioned when discussing the armament is the quality of German
ammunition. Largely ahead of its time and superior to comparable Allied examples, German cannon
shells use centrifugal fusing in shells which contain several times more explosive than Allied shells
due to the use of thinner walls. High-quality explosives used in the shells also provide considerably
more punch than comparable Allied examples

 

[Doughguy]

Its largely the AI.

Unless something vital gets shot up, it´ll to keep afloat. perfectly.

Not sure if ED has made adjustments to how "downed planes" are counted, but, if it smokes and leaves it basically is out of the fight.
Not necessary to pump anymore lead into it.

[DB 605]

Just go close and make sure every (most) rounds will actually hit the target. I just tested against ai aces, first 2xP51 and then 2x47's, could easily bring them down with mg's alone. 47's took more beating as expected. 

[Gunfreak]

Once the AI disengages (starts looking for a place to land) you've won. Most likely a human player would have jumped ship or done a belly landing in a field. But the AI apperantly will seek an airfield to land on no matter what.

I riddled a fw190D9 with .303s and 20mm and it decided it wanted to land in England (we were in France) so it started over the channel and since the plane was more holes than plane. It all ended in a belly landing in the channel. 

It happened in round 2.

 

[LeCuvier]

In my experience the P-51 AI can take an incredible number of hits and continue flying. And even when their engine is dead they continue fly over incredible distance.

The Mosquito on the other hand is very easy to kill. It's a huge targwet and it takes only a few hits to set it on fire.

[Dragon1-1]

Well, the Mossie is made of wood, after all.  For P-51, the primitive AI FM is likely to blame. 

[Aja]

All those ww2 all one thing in common. They use a special kind of ammo with the ability not to be harmed by ammo ball. The bullet goes through and do no harm!

Explanation in the picture:

null

[jk9]

I recently bought BF-109K module and honestly, 13mm machine guns feel really powerful compared to what I have experienced in other games such as IL-2 1946 and IL-2 GB series.

In IL-2 series, I think most machines guns are generally weak and you need to hit a target a lot to take down. Maybe my skill is not so good but it is really hard for me to take down an plane with machine gun only.

But this module, wow, I can easily kill P-51, Spitfire with machine gun only. And wow again, Mk108 is really powerful here. One shot one kill. It reminds me the old IL-2 1946 period because Mk108 in IL-2 GB seems to be seriously nerfed.

It is all my personal experience so I don't know how you accept this. All I want to say is that I am really happy with Bf-109's armament. They are powerful.

[Dragon1-1]

MG-131 is seriously punchy in any sim I saw it appear in, including the other WWII sim. Germans had some really great explosive rounds. Rifle-caliber MGs, such as Spitfire's four peashooters are mostly worthless, but historically they were so, too, that's why they made a version with two .50s instead. Hurricane had 12 of the things at one point, and it was rearmed with cannons when it became apparent this setup wasn't good for much. There's also a story about a Zero emptying its MGs into a Corsair (IIRC) to try to save cannon ammo, and the Corsair just tanked the all bullets and went home. They were OK in early WWII and in the interwar era, but later on cockpit armor plating caught on, so by the late era anything with self-sealing tanks would be largely unimpressed by rifle caliber rounds. Those guns could be useful when attacking twins (since you could get a direct shot at the engine) or when strafing infantry, but that's it. Mostly, they were useful for aiming cannons.

[Kobymaru]

It's definitely the AI. Enemy planes are just tanks, see attached track file. It took like 30 hits to down a single P-51.

It even took SEVERAL hits with 30mm cannon for it to *gently* fall apart.

Meanwhile in the real world:

 

p51-tank.trk

Edited July 10, 2023 by Kobymaru

[Cypher1o1]

     Idk if it was fixed or not but recently I've used several WWII planes against each other and it definitely feels right. It mostly depends on where you hit them. Some times I down them with 1 burst some times it takes almost a full belt and they still don't want to go down.

     Though might be historically accurate since american planes for one where notoriously beefy when it comes to taking hits with one P-47 pilot taking several full bursts from a Fw-190 (who was an Ace pilot) and still flying back to base after the 190 pilot ran out of ammo.

Edited January 26 by Cypher1o1
Grammer

[Gunfreak]

On 1/26/2024 at 12:56 PM, Cypher1o1 said:

     Idk if it was fixed or not but recently I've used several WWII planes against each other and it definitely feels right. It mostly depends on where you hit them. Some times I down them with 1 burst some times it takes almost a full belt and they still don't want to go down.

     Though might be historically accurate since american planes for one where notoriously beefy when it comes to taking hits with one P-47 pilot taking several full bursts from a Fw-190 (who was an Ace pilot) and still flying back to base after the 190 pilot ran out of ammo.

 

I think DCS lacks the "chewing" effect.

You fire a bunch of 20mm or even .50 calls into a plane. You don't have to hit a vital part you'll just chew it to prices until the aircraft just falls apart.

Like it doesn't appear you can chew of wings. No mater how many bullets you fire into the wing. It not gonna fall off(30mm seems to be the exception) 

You land 5 20mm Hispanos in the wingroot of a 190 or 109.  That wing wouldn't really be very well attached anymore. Nether if you chew it up with two dozen  .50 cals