Easier ways to remember start-up procedure?

[Wags94]

Simply as the title says. Are there better ways to remember the entire start up procedure? I have issues starting up the chopper cause half the time I forget to flick a switch or press a button. Should I just force myself to do the training mission over and over and over again until I get it right, or is there a better way to remember the whole start-up procedure?

Sorry for all the newbie questions that I've posted lately, lol

[Spartan1-1]

There are several great checklists out there for download. My suggestion, what I did, is watch the training mission. Pause after every segment of the procedure and jot it down on a peace of paper. Also to record where the switch is in the cockpit I had to draw a simple picture of the panels and number them. For instance the first step was:

 

Turn on BATT 1 and BATT 2 // 3

 

The // 3, on my little diagram was the forward section of the right side panel.

 

After awhile it becomes second nature if you continue to manually cold start. Than you just remember: Batt Power, System On, Nav and Tgt Sys On, Fuel Sys and APU On, etc. etc.

I hope this makes some sense. Also search the forums for a link to the superb checklists that are out there.

[Spartan1-1]

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=35571&highlight=checklist

 

Check this one out.

[crazysundog]

I printed out the pages in the manual that deal with startup, and make my own notes at the edges of these....

 

and besides that, there is always practice, practice and more practice...

[Zorrin]

Well if you are going to ignore a checklist...

 

Work on the principle of left to right, but start with the battery power and fuel shut off valves. Then start at the left by starting the APU and setting anything on that side while the APU spools.... blah blah blah etc etc etc

[LtFransky]

Um, what about LWIN + Home? :music_whistling: Heh

Edited January 7, 2009 by LtFransky

[Debio]

RL pilots always use checklists to be sure nothing is forgotten. if not using the easy-start hotkey, then only repeated practice of going through the entire checklist until memorized will do.

 

basically get elec power running, turn on fuel pumps and boosters, start APU, start engines, turn everything else on, wait until ABIS and INU are fully running. cannot think of any other solution.

 

gl...

[BRraptor]

I like to hit the ABRIS and Nav (right wall panel) as soon as I get battery power, since they take a long time to initialize. Also, while engines are spooling up, I switch on the remainder systems. This optimization lets me accomplish full manual ramp start in less than 2 minutes.

[DragonRR]

After learning the correct procedure I have gone a bit lazy and tend to switch on all the right wall switches including internal AC power followed by the Ekran, then start, then Abris and so on this saves a fair bit of time but I can't help think this is cheating and/or wouldn't actually work in a real KA-50! :)

[Joejoe]

i was thinking the same thing, in the sim you can turn on everything and then start the engine with no bad effects. i have started turbo-prop engines with efis on and such and had them dim and shut off with lots of angry sounding buzzers. but not even a flicker in the ka. although i did take too long one time and there wasnt enough juice to start the engine, that was neat (i never use ground power, just batt).

[Frederf]

In the real aircraft I think the electronics would not be happy to be turned on and then the electrical power provided, when the electrical system cuts in I'm sure it's really dirty and spikey which may damage the electronics. In the sim I don't think they go through that much trouble.

 

On the whole I would suggest writing down all the steps required and then trying to organize them into a list. The list might be 50 to 100 items long. Once you have that list it's good to massage it into something more useful.

 

A good cockpit checklist will have the following features:

 

1. Logical grouping - Several items of the same type should be grouped together.

2. Flow - A physical motion across the entire cockpit without a lot of zigzagging

3. Operational Necessity - The most important things first in case you get interrupted

4. Dependence Order - Some things must be after some other things

5. Time efficiency - Long-duration items should be done early and do some items during long waits

 

Of course you cannot follow each of these rules exactly since they will contradict each other. It's a compromise. Thinking about what order everything goes in helps you learn the list because you're not only memorizing but you actually know why you are doing things at certain times. Logical groupings and flow attempt to minimize the overall complexity of the task.

 

Now once you have a nice personal detailed checklist you should try to write a non-detailed checklist from that checklist, having 1/5th or less as many items. This helps you break a long and detailed task into smaller more logical chunks that are easier to memorize.

 

Example:

(Detailed checklist)

...

11. Battery 1 ON

12. Battery 2 ON

13. Ground AC Power AS REQ

14. Ground DC Power AS REQ

15. Intercom ON

16. VHF 2 ON

....

 

(Non-detailed)

...

2. Elec. Power

3. Radios

...

 

The second, non-detailed list is much easier to memorize. If you forget what "radios" means you can look it up in the longer detailed list. Over time you will look at the detailed list less and less and even later you can group some of the non-detailed items together into larger "phases."

[ThunderChief]

I am currently working out a startup checklist with all key commands aiming on being faster than the automated startup procedure (mainly by starting engines / abris faster) but I try to keep it realistic.

[Weta43]

If you want to be realistic, won't waiting for the gearbox oil to come up to temperature and for the INS to settle be the limiting factors ?

 

:-)

[Sunjah]

I am currently working out a startup checklist with all key commands aiming on being faster than the automated startup procedure (mainly by starting engines / abris faster) but I try to keep it realistic.

 

I look forward to tyring your checklist. As for now, I have an idea of the procedure, but I just mapped the "Auto-Start" to my space bar and press it each time.

 

Until something better comes along, like hopefully your checklist, I'm sticking with the space bar!

[d0ppler]

I look forward to tyring your checklist. As for now, I have an idea of the procedure, but I just mapped the "Auto-Start" to my space bar and press it each time.

 

Until something better comes along, like hopefully your checklist, I'm sticking with the space bar!

 

What's wrong with This one?

 

It's perfect IMHO

[DaWu]

check this out

 

http://www.dahustler.de/files/dcs/ka50_startup.zip

[aledmb]

this is the shortest list i could write down,

based on chapter 5 of the flight manual.

 

i must have done this procedure 20+ times and

still need to look at the list sometimes...

 

1. ground power unit
   
2. intercom
   
3. ews test
   
4. lights
   
5. abris
   
6. inu
   
7. k-041
   
8. pvi
   
9. wcs
   
10. adf
    
11. uv-26
    
12. onboard batteries
    
13. vhf-2
    
14. egt test
    
15. fire extinguishing tests
    
16. vmu test
    
17. fuel meter
    
18. ask permission from tower to turn on the engines
    
19. close cockpit door
    
20. apu start-up
    
21. engines start-up
    
22. apu shutdown
    
23. monitor engines and gearbox temperatures
    
24. ekran
    
25. pre-flight tests
    
26. turn on all other systems
    

Edited January 8, 2009 by aledmb

[Rastus]

Here's a copy of my list, Only takes a few times to get familiar with the switches though I would probbably change the order a bit nowdays.

RP = Right Panel, RRP = Rear Right, FLP = Front Left, etc.

 

RP Batteries 1 & 2 > on, AC External, DC External,

Forward Fuel Pumps, Rear Fuel Pumps, Fuel Gauge, APU Fuel Shutoff – on

Collision Beacon, Fire extinguishing system, Standby Attitude Indicator, Intercom, VHF 1 & 2, Radio Datalink & UHF & SA-TLF,

 

RRP INU Power, Hydraulics Power (Down)

 

FLP Engine Selector –Switch to left for APU selection, Start APU,

 

LP Check APU Start FP Abbris,

 

RP Left / Right Engine Fuel Shutoff Valve, Left / Right Engine Governor

 

FLP Engine Selector (Bottom left for Left Eng), Rotor Brake > disable, Left Engine > Start,

When RPM ~ 18% > Left Engine cutoff valve > on When RPM ~ 70% > Engine selector > Select Other Engine & Repeat, APU > Shutdown

 

Increase Automatic Engine power by 2 > PAGE UP x 2

 

RP AC Left / Right Generators > on, AC & DC External Power > Off, Shkval Scan rate > 1, Autopilots > on, Auto Alt Hold > Radar, Nav master mode > Route, INS Waypoint mode, INS Waypoint 1

Ejection Seat > All on, Weapons control systems > on, APU Fuel Valve > Off, IFF & Navigation Systems > on

 

RRP Countermeasures (ctr covered), Laser Warning

 

FP Standby Attitude Indicator > Uncage ADI Zero pitch Trim > Adjust, Radar ALT Warning > set, , Master Arm > Off

 

LP Shkval Targeting System > on, Laser Standby Mode > on

 

R-Ctrl C = Cockpit Door

 

I found this handy as it fits onto an A4 page, or on a second monitor.

Cheers

Rastus

[IIIJG11 Reaper]

And one should remember this is a Simulator, and the benifits of actually going thru the start up procedure as recommended gives you a complete understanding of the individual functions of each switch. Stick with it...

[stevie52]

I just watched over the training mission a few times. Noting down what was going on. After many unsuccefull attempts, glazing at the monitor wondering what i forgot to do, i managed to get it going and memorize it.

 

Sure, checklists are nice to have but you must first know what for instance "uv-26" means and where it is located.

 

stevie

[aledmb]

...Sure, checklists are nice to have but you must first know

what for instance "uv-26" means and where it is located.

 

i used to have a detailed list with me, but memorizing things

was difficult. so, as soon as i knew where all the switches

were and what they were meant for, i wouldn't need those

details anymore. then, i could just go with pvi, uv-26, apu

start-up, engines shutdown, etc.

 

engines start-up, for instance, involves checking or

activating 15+ switches for each engine, besides monitoring

gauges and knowing the waiting times.

 

so, before anything else, know what you are doing. as the

manual says, study 'till you feel at home in the cockpit.

[pho3nix]

The way i have been taught to learn checklists is to say each check in sequence verbatim.

 

If you got one wrong, stop and start the checklist from the beginning. Do this until you get it perfect.

 

Where i work i have to learn the normal checklists verbatim as well as the emergency BOLDFACE which is the initial actions (IA's) along with all cautions and warnings associated with the flight manual.

 

The above method works, trust me, me and every other course before me uses this technique and it does work.

[Shepski]

Hi guys,

 

Here is another quick start checklist but designed with flow patterns. A flow is a sequence of actions done from memory and is normally in a pattern that keeps the pilot "flowing" along the panels as much as possible rather then switching from panel to panel.

 

As mentioned above a flow is done from memory and then followed up with conformation from a checklist but in this case a checklist follow-up isn't necessary.

 

It is designed to get you started and in the air quickly and assumes you have a basic understanding of the cockpit layout.

 

 

KA-50 Start Flows - Quick Start

 

- Battery 1 and 2 - on

- Nav lights - on

- "ABCK" intercom switch - on

- Lamp Test - press to check all lights and audible warning functioning

 

*Ground Power - If Required*

- SPU-9 Radio Panel - "HON"

- Advise Ground service you want ground power. - "\" F10, F3, F1

- DC and AC ground power - on

 

Before Engine Start Flow

- Fuel meter - on

- Stopped engine EGT gauge test - press

- Fuel meter gauge test - press

- Forward and aft fuel boost pumps - on

- APU fuel shut-off valve - open

- Standby attitude power - on

- INU power - on

- Engine/APU start select switch - APU

- Engine/APU start button - press - monitor APU EGT

 

Engine Start Flow

- Park brake - on

- Ejection seat - arm

- Left engine fuel shut-off valve - open

- Anti-collision light - on

- Left/right engine EEG switches - on

- Rotorbrake - off

- Engine/APU start select switch - left engine

- Engine/APU start button - press

- At 20% Ng, left engine fuel cut-off lever - open - monitor EGT and engine RPM increase to idle(60-65%)

- Right engine fuel shut-off valve - open

- Engine/APU start select switch - right engine

- Engine/APU start button - press

- At 20% Ng, right engine fuel cut-off lever - open - monitor EGT and engine RPM increase to idle(60-65%)

- Engine throttle levers - auto (2 positions up)

- Left and right engine generators - on

- APU shut-off button - press

- APU fuel shut-off valve - close

- Request ground service personnel to remove ground power - "\" f10, F3, F2

- DC and AC ground power - off

 

After Start Flow

- ABRIS power - on

- Standby attitude indicator - uncage and set

- Running engine EGT gauge test - press

- All remaining radio/datalink switches - on

- Weapon control system - on

- UV-26 countermeasure power - on

- Laser warning system power - on

- Signal flare power - on

- Autopilot channel switches - on

- Baro/radar altitude hold - as required

- Heading/track mode - as required

- PVI-800 mode selector - on (PA6)

- NAV Waypoint button(NNM) - press and select waypoint number on the keypad

- Center panel - configure as necessary

- K-041 targeting and NAV system power - on

- ABRIS - configure

- Park brake - release

[ThunderChief]

What's wrong with This one?

 

It's perfect IMHO

 

This checklist might be good (didn't try yet) but my plan was to have a checklist with keycommands to be faster than clicking the virtual switches.

 

If you want to be realistic, won't waiting for the gearbox oil to come up to temperature and for the INS to settle be the limiting factors ?

 

:-)

 

I will make tradeoffs here because as far as I know there is know indication when the INU is aligned, and it will work correctly even if you start before that.

 

The gearbox temperature seems to be okay as long as its not to cold outside.

 

What I realy meant by being realistic is to avoid simply switching everything on at once. But till now I didn't find anything problematic if doing so anyway.

[aledmb]

This checklist might be good (didn't try yet) but my plan was to

have a checklist with keycommands to be faster than clicking the

virtual switches.

 

 

i like being able to click all of them.

also, i find it's easier to memorize something visually.