why does the f-18 not allow one to use weapons if the wheel door is broken?

[Ramstein]

why does the f-18 not allow one to use weapons if the wheel door is broken?  Imagine what it would be like if the weapons did not work on the A-10 if a panel was broken.

[Swift.]

Because if the door isn't detected to be closed then the aircraft thinks it's open. And if the door is open then it's in the way and will affect weapon separation.

[Foka]

 Imagine what it would be if pilots would learn not to overspeed landing gear on takeoff.

[Ramstein]

in real life bubble gum was used as a seal when an aircraft or fighter was ready to take off and there was a fuel leak on a fuel tank... I know I was in TAC the USAF. If we didn't do quick fixes we could never win wars. So enough with smart a** answers. Are these issues really shop stoppers in real life?

[Vampyre]

5 hours ago, Ramstein said:

in real life bubble gum was used as a seal when an aircraft or fighter was ready to take off and there was a fuel leak on a fuel tank... I know I was in TAC the USAF. If we didn't do quick fixes we could never win wars. So enough with smart a** answers. Are these issues really shop stoppers in real life?

 Yes. This can be found in the A1-F18AC-NFM-000 dated 15 Sep 2008 on page I-2-65 paragraph 2.10.1.4 titled Landing Gear Warning Lights/Tone. The indicator that something is wrong will be the landing gear handle illuminating red in the up position. The airspeed limitations for the landing gear extension/retraction/extended is 250 Knots (DCS seems to have a little buffer zone above 250 before things start to break). The airspeed limitations for the Refueling Probe, Landing Gear, Tires, Trailing edge Flaps and Canopy can be found in figure 4-1 of the before mentioned NFM-000. The Hornet systems are all tied together electronically and communicate with each other. The landing gear are still in transit as far as the airplane knows and will not allow you to use the weapons systems. Bubble gum won't fix that. The key is to operate the aircraft within its limits. If you don't have access to the actual aircraft manual, Chuck Owl makes an excellent guide for the F/A-18C and many other airframes as well.  Chuck’s Guides – DCS F/A-18C Hornet | Mudspike

Edited October 11, 2022 by Vampyre
extra word removal.

[Dragon1-1]

I imagine that if there was a war and they had to, they'd have found a way to "fix" that.  That said, if it happens in flight, it's rather hard to apply such a fix in a timely fashion. So don't overspeed your gear.

[Vampyre]

19 minutes ago, Dragon1-1 said:

I imagine that if there was a war and they had to, they'd have found a way to "fix" that.  That said, if it happens in flight, it's rather hard to apply such a fix in a timely fashion. So don't overspeed your gear.

Well, it's been my experience that, even in a war, this was never an issue. The limitations are trained to by the aircrew. I have never seen gross overspeed conditions caused by pilot incompetence that have caused a TFOA of the landing gear doors. Even minor landing gear overspeeds not involving a TFOA are very rare. 

[Dragon1-1]

Yeah, well, it's not that hard not to overspeed them. Just don't go crazy until your gear is up.

[Foka]

There are at least two ways to control your speed on take off - with a throttle, or with climbe rate. Just don't exceed 250 kts until gear handle stops flashing.

[t1mb0b]

don't break the aircraft

[EnzoF98]

On 10/11/2022 at 3:27 AM, Ramstein said:

in real life bubble gum was used as a seal when an aircraft or fighter was ready to take off and there was a fuel leak on a fuel tank... I know I was in TAC the USAF. If we didn't do quick fixes we could never win wars. So enough with smart a** answers. Are these issues really shop stoppers in real life?

I think the increased risk of losing the crew and the jet while dropping ordinance with a broken gear door is a show stopper....

Edited October 12, 2022 by EnzoF98

[CBStu]

I had that happen a couple of times. Since then I now bring gear up as soon as the tires leave the deck. I do wonder, since over speeding is so detrimental to the plane why it doesn't come up automatically. I know it is slightly different but the flaps come up automatically if I forget.

[Cab]

21 minutes ago, CBStu said:

I had that happen a couple of times. Since then I now bring gear up as soon as the tires leave the deck. I do wonder, since over speeding is so detrimental to the plane why it doesn't come up automatically. I know it is slightly different but the flaps come up automatically if I forget.

That's not a bad question, but I don't think any airplane anywhere has the gear retract automatically.

[Dragon1-1]

Too much potential for the system to trip at the exact wrong moment, and, say, fold the gear after a small bounce off the runway. This is a very critical thing that's just too important to leave to a computer.

[Ramstein]

a bird strike, a golden bb, anything that tweaks a door, or lose it causes a whole mission to be cancelled... it should be the pilots call, not a $2.00 switch.

[Exorcet]

2 minutes ago, Ramstein said:

a bird strike, a golden bb, anything that tweaks a door, or lose it causes a whole mission to be cancelled... it should be the pilots call, not a $2.00 switch.

Apparently the US Navy disagrees. This is a non issue if the plane is flown properly. Procedure is part of flying and there no reason to spend money on stronger landing gear or automated systems when you can just instruct your pilots to fly correctly and prevent the issue from happening 99% of the time.

[Phantom711]

Am 14.10.2022 um 18:18 schrieb Ramstein:

a bird strike, a golden bb, anything that tweaks a door, or lose it causes a whole mission to be cancelled... it should be the pilots call, not a $2.00 switch.

 

@Exorcet 100% agree!

 

@Ramstein

Just because some of you guys overspeed your gear, doesn`t mean, that this is a common issue in real life. And if that switch was prone to false indications, then they would have probably changed that with any of the later versions of the aircraft after thousands of training missions and probably a significant amount of combat sorties. One must always balance between flight safety and operational feasabilty.

Why do you think you (most likely as a sim pilot only) are smarter than McDonnell Douglas, Boeing, the USN, USMC, Spanish Air Force, Finnish Air Force, Canadian Air Force, Australian Air Force and maybe some other services I forgot right now....?

 

 

[Tholozor]

3 hours ago, Phantom711 said:

and maybe some other services I forgot right now....?

Kuwait and Malaysia.

[EnzoF98]

On 10/14/2022 at 6:18 PM, Ramstein said:

it should be the pilots call

The pilot does not own the multi million dollar aircraft.

On 10/14/2022 at 6:18 PM, Ramstein said:

it causes a whole mission to be cancelled...

Often times there'll be a reserve jet and pilot to replace any jet that has issues

[Crashdown2]

All of the answers above, snarky or otherwise are correct, however the question was more simple. It does seem strange, since there are no forward firing weapons directly behind the front gear, but you kind of have to take into account maneuvering and the possibility that a weapon could smack into the gear. I do agree that doors off gear up would not necessitate the disabling of weapons, but if the bird only knows what it's told, and what it's told is limited, it's better to be safe than sorry. I run into this problem from time to time because the buttons on the throttle I have assigned to the gear don't work all of the time, (I disabled most of the keyboard stuff due to a chat issue that caused me to screw up a bunch of other stuff once on a paired mission) so I get it. It isn't always about "flying correctly", though it's important, even in the sim, there are times when things don't go as you expect, and by the time you notice, it can be too late to correct.

[Cepheus76]

The whole discussion is somewhat frivolous, however, I can't resist to open up a new angle: I am quite certain that the electrical power supply to the weapons system is interrupted while the gear is down to add another safety layer for aircraft handling on the ground, especially when arming and disarming ordnance. There is the hazard that  removing/ inserting the arming pins of various weapons creates a sneak circuit of sufficient strength to trigger weapon release and it is my guess that having an interlock with the gear is part of managing that risk.

Apart from that, not busting the gear limits after take off isn't all that difficult and can be even practiced by flying a few circuits around the ole cabbage patch.

[Ramstein]

On 10/17/2022 at 2:38 AM, EnzoF98 said:

The pilot does not own the multi million dollar aircraft.

Often times there'll be a reserve jet and pilot to replace any jet that has issues

??? not really.... everything is planned and there isn't always a spare for everything, one issue can throw a whole plan into crap...

[MTrenda]

I really do not want to stir things up, but i believe that what we are talking about here is Weight on Wheels.  No weapons are able to be released while the aircraft is on the ground or gear is extended for some very good reasons. one reason is pickling on the desk would be very catastrophic with ammunition, personal and other aircraft crowding the deck.  I remember seeing this on a very old video happening with a sparrow.  Two, imagine coming in for a landing and accidently pickling at the round down.  give me a practical reason in real life that an aircraft would fly 200 NM with it wheel down to complete a mission, they would not.  this would be a mission scrubbing event and the proper procedure would be to RTB and fix the issue.

As far as over speeding the gear, i do not see this as the only time this may come up.  i have had it happen recently while taking off the deck and lag happening where the aircraft must have hit the deck enough to cause damage to the gear.  what was the procedure? immediate RTB and repair aircraft so that 100% of the systems required for the mission were working.

As unfortunate it is to redo the four minutes of startup, it proper procedure so all systems are functional.  no good pilot would be mission ready with a bent aircraft.  landing gear is not just a LED light out or flashlight not onboard.

just my two cents

Falcon      

Edited October 20, 2022 by MTrenda

[79Au]

I'm not a fan of such minor details that can break the plane for some silly IRL reason that is beyond the scope of this game.

ED should make a hardcore mode for those who want all the IRL limitations and rules. I'm convinced it's just a vocal minority of elitists that keep asking ED to reduce the fun and introduce new limitations.

[Dragon1-1]

It's not beyond the scope of the simulation. It's a consideration with the real aircraft, it should be the consideration with the sim.

The "vocal minority" you're referring to is, in fact, the DCS core audience. If this didn't happen, people would complain about there being no consequence for overspeeding the gear.