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Dear ED, perfect time for a G6


DB 605

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15 hours ago, Tenebrae Aeternae said:

Oh it´s not my preference, just an observation of how things work with DCS.

I would like the current birds to have more variants for sure, and as a ww2 standard i´d like to see an early, mid and late war variants + some theater specific variants, whichever of those are appropriate and significant.

It´s really damn hard, if not impossible to era match these things otherwise, and DCS ww2 will always stay as a paper thin experience.

 

Exactly.


Edited by DB 605
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1 hour ago, Slice313 said:

wont happen, ED wont make another AXIS warbird...

We don't know ED's plans, plus they already said those models were coming down the road. "It's not if, it's when", Nick Grey's words here on these forums.

"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war."

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The G6 strikes me as being fairly similar to the K4 (yes I know the K4 had some improvements).

I’d rather see an F series, which would be a more appropriate match with a Spitfire XI, at the time when there was a much closer parity with the number of aircraft engaging each other, ie the Luftwaffe aircraft not regularly being massively outnumbered.


Edited by Mr_sukebe

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Well, planes aren't usually just like one day this one appears, all of a sudden all the other disappear, and the like. Obviously they blend together for a time while being classed out in a slow process. But I believe F model was an earlier model than IX we have. Makes no sense to make another mess while trying to fix the planeset mess, IMO. G models on the other hand, be it early 1943 G6, or even G2, are about the same time of our IX model, though they aren't really since our LF.Mk.IX isn't either the first IX which appeared in 1942, not even close.

Still, I get the kind of consistence so many of us (since I'm not out of that) are willing to have here, but still I don't get the rush about "it all has to be the same date to be playable, and if not it's unusable". Aviation doesn't work like that, planes come in and out gradually and they're used until they need to without looking at the expiration date tag.

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"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war."

-- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice

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I’d also favour a Friedrich, most likely an F4… but would need to be paired with a Spitfire V.  Add in an early 190 and things could be seriously interesting

IIRC a lot of the “Experten” favoured the Friedrich - light weapons fit, but lighter overall than the later builds…?

 

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The Bf-109F was introduced during the BoB and finished production in 1942. The Bf-109G6 was produced from Feb 43 to Aug 44 and is a perfect match chronologically for our 1943 Spitfire LF Mk. IXc. Incidentally ours looks like it was a Mk Vc that was factory converted to Mk IX spec sometime in early 43. 

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14 minutes ago, rkk01 said:

I’d also favour a Friedrich, most likely an F4… but would need to be paired with a Spitfire V.  Add in an early 190 and things could be seriously interesting

IIRC a lot of the “Experten” favoured the Friedrich - light weapons fit, but lighter overall than the later builds…?

 

Yep, Channel map would be perfect for that at an earlier 41-42 date, quite an interesting era if you ask me, but too many new planes we would need for that. Hope it happens but when…

8 minutes ago, 71st_AH Rob said:

The Bf-109F was introduced during the BoB and finished production in 1942. The Bf-109G6 was produced from Feb 43 to Aug 44 and is a perfect match chronologically for our 1943 Spitfire LF Mk. IXc. Incidentally ours looks like it was a Mk Vc that was factory converted to Mk IX spec sometime in early 43. 

It wasn't really. F-0 models were trialed from October-November'40 briefly (a month or so) until they realized they had to enhance those pesky flying alone tail units 😅 . Full use wasn't until well in 41. And that's the problem with "this date, that date", if it was to be done properly so many things would have to be taken into account. Still this is a game, too much hassle for that and still nobody would be happy, honestly.

"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war."

-- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice

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57 minutes ago, Mr_sukebe said:

The G6 strikes me as being fairly similar to the K4 (yes I know the K4 had some improvements).

I’d rather see an F series, which would be a more appropriate match with a Spitfire XI, at the time when there was a much closer parity with the number of aircraft engaging each other, ie the Luftwaffe aircraft not regularly being massively outnumbered.

 

Fairly similar - no. Or yes, in a way all 109's are fairly similar. Appropriate match for Spit IX - G6 is exactly that. Both IX and G6 were in service from 43 on (G6 later updated to G14).

Whole reason i started this topic is to have at least somewhat historically correct planeset - now we have pretty good "main fighters" for mid '44 minus Bf 109 G6. Don't get me wrong, i would absolutely love to see F4 (or any other 109 model) too but then it would another mismatch to rest of the planes, F series were mainly active in 1941-42.

I would definitely love to see earlier Mustangs too for example but in my opinion G6 would be first necessary step to fix planeset for incoming Normandy 2.0 map.


Edited by DB 605
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4 hours ago, Ala13_ManOWar said:

Yep, Channel map would be perfect for that at an earlier 41-42 date, quite an interesting era if you ask me, but too many new planes we would need for that. Hope it happens but when…

It wasn't really. F-0 models were trialed from October-November'40 briefly (a month or so) until they realized they had to enhance those pesky flying alone tail units 😅 . Full use wasn't until well in 41. And that's the problem with "this date, that date", if it was to be done properly so many things would have to be taken into account. Still this is a game, too much hassle for that and still nobody would be happy, honestly.

There is another simulator that has 1939-1941 well covered with Spit 1,2  and 5. Aswell as various versions of Emil and Friedrich 109s and much more.

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1 hour ago, Gunfreak said:

There is another simulator that has 1939-1941 well covered with Spit 1,2  and 5. Aswell as various versions of Emil and Friedrich 109s and much more.

You know it's not even close to what DCS has to offer mate. Besides, that one despite the efforts has aged pretty badly. Even if it takes whatever the time, I'd like to see that theatre in DCS some day.

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"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war."

-- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice

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10 minutes ago, Ala13_ManOWar said:

You know it's not even close to what DCS has to offer mate. Besides, that one despite the efforts has aged pretty badly. Even if it takes whatever the time, I'd like to see that theatre in DCS some day.

It's getting a massive update and is actually very close to dcs except for some graphics stuff and sound.

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7 minutes ago, Gunfreak said:

It's getting a massive update and is actually very close to dcs except for some graphics stuff and sound.

Graphics are pretty bad these days, but I was meaning more about physics and FMs… not even close mate, no matter how updated it gets.

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"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war."

-- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice

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32 minutes ago, Ala13_ManOWar said:

Graphics are pretty bad these days, but I was meaning more about physics and FMs… not even close mate, no matter how updated it gets.

FM is fantastic, and has very complex engine management and unlike DCS, they don't have strange engine bugs that stay with the aircraft for 5 years.

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10小时前,DB 605说:

Whole reason i started this topic is to have at least somewhat historically correct planeset - now we have pretty good "main fighters" for mid '44 minus Bf 109 G6.

LMAO.

Aircraft             Combat debut

Bf 109 K-4        October 1944

Fw 190 D-9      end of September 1944

P-47D-30         November 1944

P-51D-25          1945

 

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I think we all are aware what simulators there is in the market, genre is not that big. Yes Il2 does have it pros and cons and pretty good FM but it's way more general and not even close when it comes to fidelity per plane and systems modelling etc. Not to even mention graphics and sounds.

Thats why i hope and wish that more WW2 planes and maps will come to DCS eventually.

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1 hour ago, dcn said:

LMAO.

Aircraft             Combat debut

Bf 109 K-4        October 1944

Fw 190 D-9      end of September 1944

P-47D-30         November 1944

P-51D-25          1945

 

Mosquito FB.VI    May 1943 (Merlin 25 prob. around August?)

Spitfire IX             July 1942 (our subvariant is a bit later 1943).

Both the Mossie FB.VI and Spit IX served in large numbers to the end of the war, so they are not out of place in late 1944/45 scenarios, though a bit outdated.

The Channel and Normandy maps however are a bit early for the P-51D, P47-D30, 109K4, and 190D9 - these fit the battle of the bulge. During the Normandy campaign (and before) the P-51 were “B” and P-47 were pre D25 Razorback models, and 109 were G6/G14. The FW190-A8, Spit IX, and Mossie are good for these maps.

So, if we get 109G6 we have a good representation of the LW main fighters of the 1944 period. The G6 served in large numbers till the end of the war, the 109K4 never reached the numbers to be the “main” LW fighter.


Edited by Bozon
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It is clear that ED has no intention of making period compatible planes set, because they are jumping 1945 to 1942/3 and vice versa. If they had 44/45 plane set FW190D K-4 and P-51D why they put 1942 spitfire ? Makes no sense for me.

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The easiest solution is if a third party was to make a 1945 Germany map. Then all the historical match up problems disappear. We only argue about it now because the available WW2 terrains are all earlier than the plane set we have.

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2 hours ago, Skewgear said:

The easiest solution is if a third party was to make a 1945 Germany map. Then all the historical match up problems disappear. We only argue about it now because the available WW2 terrains are all earlier than the plane set we have.

The easiest would be to expand channel map into Nederlands and Belgium so we get a bodenplatte map. This would also be suitable for 42/44 when a lot of bomber missions happned there. Perfect for several historical Sptifire bomber escort missions and also early P47 bomber escort missions. 

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4 hours ago, grafspee said:

It is clear that ED has no intention of making period compatible planes set, because they are jumping 1945 to 1942/3 and vice versa. If they had 44/45 plane set FW190D K-4 and P-51D why they put 1942 spitfire ? Makes no sense for me.

Because it is NOT a 1942 Spitfire IX.

The F Mk.IXc introduced in 1942 had a Merlin 61 rated at +12lb max boost

The LF Lk.IXc with a Merlin 66 rated at +18lb was introduced in 1943 and was still in frontline service - at that boost rating - in January of 1945.


Edited by DD_Fenrir
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24 minutes ago, DD_Fenrir said:

The F Mk.IXc introduced in 1942 had a Merlin 61 rated at +12lb max boost

The LF Lk.IXc with a Merlin 66 rated at +18lb was introduced in 1943 and was still in frontline service - at that boost rating - in January of 1945.

In ingame K4 terms means: I'm going to crunch you in 2 secs instead in one teabag!! So going back to the OP idea: Yes a G-6 got all the sense with the actual plane set and WW2 maps (Channel, Normandy 1 & 2)  

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59 minutes ago, DD_Fenrir said:

Because it is NOT a 1942 Spitfire IX.

The F Mk.IXc introduced in 1942 had a Merlin 61 rated at +12lb max boost

The LF Lk.IXc with a Merlin 66 rated at +18lb was introduced in 1943 and was still in frontline service - at that boost rating - in January of 1945.

 

Not correct, Merlin 66/70/266 were cleared for 18lbs take off and 18lbs Combat 5min

and merlin 61/63 were rated 12lbs for take off but combat 5 min rating was 15lbs

15lbs vs 18lbs rather cosmetic improvement compare to K-4 or D-9, but much needed against Anton.


Edited by grafspee

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