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2.8 update has 20 % fps loss on pimax8kx and 15 fps loss on Varjo Aero (RTX 4090)


darkman222

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I just hope that they wont sneak 2.8 with the performance loss into the stable branch after a while, when it got calm about the performance loss on Open Beta. If that happens, its over and we have to deal with it.

Back to topic. No. Also the recent DCS 2.8.0.32937 Open Beta performs with a loss of 2 ms GPU frame time compared to 2.7 while on same settings with "low" preset and all shadows "off"

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3 minutes ago, Willie Nelson said:

Who are these mysterious people that @BIGNEWYspeaks of that have NOT had a FPS drop.......

I wish I could say one way or another but I had a 7 week lay off due to spinal surgery and have just got back to flying, so I really can not remember. My performance in 2.8 seems to be ok'ish though. Can always be better.

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Don B

EVGA Z390 Dark MB | i9 9900k CPU @ 5.1 GHz | Gigabyte 4090 OC | 64 GB Corsair Vengeance 3200 MHz CL16 | Corsair H150i Pro Cooler |Virpil CM3 Stick w/ Alpha Prime Grip 200mm ext| Virpil CM3 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Base w/ Alpha-L Grip| Point Control V2|Varjo Aero|

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52 minutes ago, Willie Nelson said:

Who are these mysterious people that @BIGNEWYspeaks of that have NOT had a FPS drop.......

Santa, Tooth fairy, Thinker Bell, Peter Pan, Captain Hook, Cinderella, Pocahontas, Godzilla, King Kong, Cyclops, Wolverine, Spiderman.......


Edited by Rapierarch
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I think the fps drop depends on which performance bracket you were originally on.  For people using motion smoothing or fps lock, if you already have good fps cushion, 2ms of GPU frametime drop will not affect the overall fps as fps lock happens.  But if you were right at the edge say 46-47 fps, a drop into high 30s or low 40s can hurt, and the same goes for people who were in the 30s before (for 90Hz headsets).  For the people who play mostly in CPU bound scenarios (crowded MP servers), a slight increase in GPU frametime will not result in fps drop either because CPU is already taking a bigger hit.

However, if you do a direct measurement of the frametimes for both CPU and GPU, you will see a slight GPU frametime increase with the new beta.


Edited by Supmua
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PC: 5800X3D/4090, 11700K/3090, 9900K/2080Ti.

Joystick bases: TMW, VPC WarBRD, MT50CM2, VKB GFII, FSSB R3L

Joystick grips: TM (Warthog, F/A-18C), Realsimulator (F-16SGRH, F-18CGRH), VKB (Kosmosima LH, MCG, MCG Pro), VPC MongoosT50-CM2

Throttles: TMW, Winwing Super Taurus, Logitech Throttle Quadrant, Realsimulator Throttle (soon)

VR: HTC Vive/Pro, Oculus Rift/Quest 2, Valve Index, Varjo Aero, https://forum.dcs.world/topic/300065-varjo-aero-general-guide-for-new-owners/

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With the latest OB (and the new hotfix) I seem to be getting micro stutters every couple of seconds. Process Lasso etc makes no odds either way. And I had it buttery smooth pre the update (terrain shadows OFF, OXRTK locked to 45FPS). Nothing new running service wise, no settings or driver changes. Most odd.


Edited by zildac
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12900KF | Maximus Hero Z690 | ASUS 4090 TUF OC | 64GB DDR5 5200 | DCS on 2TB NVMe | WarBRD+Warthog Stick | CM3 | TM TPR's | Varjo Aero

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2 hours ago, Supmua said:

fps drop depends on which performance bracket

This and rest of it 100% describes what happens. People who optimized the <profanity> out of their DCS to get the maximum possible on their current system get the worst blow. Like me they had to start all over again. The final result is you have to give up more fidelity and quality to achieve the same playable fps again with healthy margin. 

  

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3 hours ago, zildac said:

With the latest OB (and the new hotfix) I seem to be getting micro stutters every couple of seconds. Process Lasso etc makes no odds either way. And I had it buttery smooth pre the update (terrain shadows OFF, OXRTK locked to 45FPS). Nothing new running service wise, no settings or driver changes. Most odd.

 

I haven’t tried OXR yet, been using OpenVR since the update and didn’t notice any new change. Will try OpenXR later today. 

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PC: 5800X3D/4090, 11700K/3090, 9900K/2080Ti.

Joystick bases: TMW, VPC WarBRD, MT50CM2, VKB GFII, FSSB R3L

Joystick grips: TM (Warthog, F/A-18C), Realsimulator (F-16SGRH, F-18CGRH), VKB (Kosmosima LH, MCG, MCG Pro), VPC MongoosT50-CM2

Throttles: TMW, Winwing Super Taurus, Logitech Throttle Quadrant, Realsimulator Throttle (soon)

VR: HTC Vive/Pro, Oculus Rift/Quest 2, Valve Index, Varjo Aero, https://forum.dcs.world/topic/300065-varjo-aero-general-guide-for-new-owners/

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Ok, I have isolated the OpenXR stuttering problem.  It appears to be from OXRTK, will inform mbucchia about this.  Due to very high framerate, I barely noticed any stuttering at all but GPU FT graphs revealed everything (those intermittent spikes).

null

image.png

 

And the image below is OpenXR without OXRTK.  No GPU FT spikes.  Noted the dropped fps, this is due to running at full resolution without OXRTK res override, so it's 4100 horizonal pixels vs 3200.  OpenVR mode doesn't have this problem either, pretty smooth GPU FT graph similar to the bottom picture.

 

OXRalone.png

 

EDIT:  Had a brief chat and got some pointers from mbucchia.  If you have stuttering with OXRTK, try enabling the Safe Mode from Companion App then reset the settings with CTRL+F1+F2+F3--this fixed my GPU FT spikes.  It might be the foveated rendering setting in my case, turned that back on and the spikes came back.

 


Edited by Supmua
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PC: 5800X3D/4090, 11700K/3090, 9900K/2080Ti.

Joystick bases: TMW, VPC WarBRD, MT50CM2, VKB GFII, FSSB R3L

Joystick grips: TM (Warthog, F/A-18C), Realsimulator (F-16SGRH, F-18CGRH), VKB (Kosmosima LH, MCG, MCG Pro), VPC MongoosT50-CM2

Throttles: TMW, Winwing Super Taurus, Logitech Throttle Quadrant, Realsimulator Throttle (soon)

VR: HTC Vive/Pro, Oculus Rift/Quest 2, Valve Index, Varjo Aero, https://forum.dcs.world/topic/300065-varjo-aero-general-guide-for-new-owners/

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1 hour ago, Supmua said:

Ok, I have isolated the OpenXR stuttering problem.  It appears to be from OXRTK, will inform mbucchia about this.  Due to very high framerate, I barely noticed any stuttering at all but GPU FT graphs revealed everything (those intermittent spikes).

null

image.png

 

And the image below is OpenXR without OXRTK.  No GPU FT spikes.  Noted the dropped fps, this is due to running at full resolution without OXRTK res override, so it's 4100 horizonal pixels vs 3200.  OpenVR mode doesn't have this problem either, pretty smooth GPU FT graph similar to the bottom picture.

 

OXRalone.png

 

EDIT:  Had a brief chat and got some pointers from mbucchia.  If you have stuttering with OXRTK, try enabling the Safe Mode from Companion App then reset the settings with CTRL+F1+F2+F3--this fixed my GPU FT spikes.

 

 

This is interesting as Turbo mode also started to cause lag in the second 2.8 Patch, so I disabled it. However, I did notice that there sometimes appears to be lag the OXRTK menu since the last beta and hotfix, which was not present prior. @Supmua after the reset were you able to configure your previous OXRTK settings (appearance, frame throttle etc) without the lag returning?

12900KF | Maximus Hero Z690 | ASUS 4090 TUF OC | 64GB DDR5 5200 | DCS on 2TB NVMe | WarBRD+Warthog Stick | CM3 | TM TPR's | Varjo Aero

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11 minutes ago, zildac said:

This is interesting as Turbo mode also started to cause lag in the second 2.8 Patch, so I disabled it. However, I did notice that there sometimes appears to be lag the OXRTK menu since the last beta and hotfix, which was not present prior. @Supmua after the reset were you able to configure your previous OXRTK settings (appearance, frame throttle etc) without the lag returning?

Well I was flying at 90 fps so I didn't really see any lag.  Even with the spikes at that fps I could barely tell.  Let me try more intensive missions.

OK microstutters, slightly worse than OpenVR actually.  But smooth once you force 45 fps lock via Analytics Window in VB.


Edited by Supmua

PC: 5800X3D/4090, 11700K/3090, 9900K/2080Ti.

Joystick bases: TMW, VPC WarBRD, MT50CM2, VKB GFII, FSSB R3L

Joystick grips: TM (Warthog, F/A-18C), Realsimulator (F-16SGRH, F-18CGRH), VKB (Kosmosima LH, MCG, MCG Pro), VPC MongoosT50-CM2

Throttles: TMW, Winwing Super Taurus, Logitech Throttle Quadrant, Realsimulator Throttle (soon)

VR: HTC Vive/Pro, Oculus Rift/Quest 2, Valve Index, Varjo Aero, https://forum.dcs.world/topic/300065-varjo-aero-general-guide-for-new-owners/

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3 minutes ago, dureiken said:

@Supmua

Hi, how do you do to have these graphs ?

 

thanks

Right CTRL-Pause.  I think these represent GPU FT not 100% since there're 3 of em.

PC: 5800X3D/4090, 11700K/3090, 9900K/2080Ti.

Joystick bases: TMW, VPC WarBRD, MT50CM2, VKB GFII, FSSB R3L

Joystick grips: TM (Warthog, F/A-18C), Realsimulator (F-16SGRH, F-18CGRH), VKB (Kosmosima LH, MCG, MCG Pro), VPC MongoosT50-CM2

Throttles: TMW, Winwing Super Taurus, Logitech Throttle Quadrant, Realsimulator Throttle (soon)

VR: HTC Vive/Pro, Oculus Rift/Quest 2, Valve Index, Varjo Aero, https://forum.dcs.world/topic/300065-varjo-aero-general-guide-for-new-owners/

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14 minutes ago, Supmua said:

Well I was flying at 90 fps so I didn't really see any lag.  Even with the spikes at that fps I could barely tell.  Let me try more intensive missions.

I just tried this, and I had already tried just disabling OXRTK earlier, but the stutters are odd. My test case is Hornet Caucasus ROTR. I can climb out and for example look to the left at the tress and there is a defined stutter, it's very small. I don't think my issue is OXRTK. It's almost as though the last beta (and the corresponding hotfix) have done something to the way textures are loaded. This issue did not exist in the first 2.8 OB for sure. I'm at 83 FPS, but even locked at 45 (which is my normal) they occur, and they did not before. I have been digging around what may have changed with my system, but the ONLY thing installed was a USB driver for XUM1541. The "other" flight sim does not appear to suffer the same issue. I'm a little perplexed, and frustrated 🙂 Am using Bartheks mod, but the same issue is present even with the stock map.


Edited by zildac
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12900KF | Maximus Hero Z690 | ASUS 4090 TUF OC | 64GB DDR5 5200 | DCS on 2TB NVMe | WarBRD+Warthog Stick | CM3 | TM TPR's | Varjo Aero

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1 minute ago, zildac said:

I just tried this, and I had already tried just disabling OXRTK earlier, but the stutters are odd. My test case is Hornet Caucasus ROTR. I can climb out and for example look to the left at the tress and there is a defined stutter, it's very small. I don't think my issue is OXRTK. It's almost as though the last beta (and the corresponding hotfix) have done something to the way textures are loaded. This issue did not exist in the first 2.8 OB for sure. I'm at 83 FPS, but even locked at 45 (which is my normal) they occur, and they did not before. I have been digging around what may have changed with my system, but the ONLY thing installed was a USB driver for XUM1541. The "other" flight sim does not appear to suffer the same issue. I'm a little perplexed, and frustrated 🙂

hmm let me try this.  Don't mind flying more since I'm testing this new joystick base anyway lol.

PC: 5800X3D/4090, 11700K/3090, 9900K/2080Ti.

Joystick bases: TMW, VPC WarBRD, MT50CM2, VKB GFII, FSSB R3L

Joystick grips: TM (Warthog, F/A-18C), Realsimulator (F-16SGRH, F-18CGRH), VKB (Kosmosima LH, MCG, MCG Pro), VPC MongoosT50-CM2

Throttles: TMW, Winwing Super Taurus, Logitech Throttle Quadrant, Realsimulator Throttle (soon)

VR: HTC Vive/Pro, Oculus Rift/Quest 2, Valve Index, Varjo Aero, https://forum.dcs.world/topic/300065-varjo-aero-general-guide-for-new-owners/

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1 minute ago, Supmua said:

hmm let me try this.  Don't mind flying more since I'm testing this new joystick base anyway lol.

🙂 👍

12900KF | Maximus Hero Z690 | ASUS 4090 TUF OC | 64GB DDR5 5200 | DCS on 2TB NVMe | WarBRD+Warthog Stick | CM3 | TM TPR's | Varjo Aero

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5 minutes ago, zildac said:

🙂 👍

Very smooth in my case, and I looked both left and right and all around during takeoff.  The frametime graph also confirmed this, smooth without spikes.

PC: 5800X3D/4090, 11700K/3090, 9900K/2080Ti.

Joystick bases: TMW, VPC WarBRD, MT50CM2, VKB GFII, FSSB R3L

Joystick grips: TM (Warthog, F/A-18C), Realsimulator (F-16SGRH, F-18CGRH), VKB (Kosmosima LH, MCG, MCG Pro), VPC MongoosT50-CM2

Throttles: TMW, Winwing Super Taurus, Logitech Throttle Quadrant, Realsimulator Throttle (soon)

VR: HTC Vive/Pro, Oculus Rift/Quest 2, Valve Index, Varjo Aero, https://forum.dcs.world/topic/300065-varjo-aero-general-guide-for-new-owners/

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3 minutes ago, Supmua said:

Very smooth in my case, and I looked both left and right and all around during takeoff.  The frametime graph also confirmed this, smooth without spikes.

Thanks for checking, perhaps it's a localised issue. Joy... I need to dig 👍

 

@Supmua What Nvidia driver are you running, I upgraded to the latest, but then rolled back to previous as thought that was the issue...DDU'd etc. Always use the cleaned versions from Gurud3d forum thread.


Edited by zildac

12900KF | Maximus Hero Z690 | ASUS 4090 TUF OC | 64GB DDR5 5200 | DCS on 2TB NVMe | WarBRD+Warthog Stick | CM3 | TM TPR's | Varjo Aero

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There's also an issue with nVidia RTX30 and RTX40 Cards and Driver Polling,

Just in case no one has looked into that, when 3rd Party Apps (Afterburner, Precision, etc) poll the gpu for statistics, the frequency drops.

Also, I would rename Export.lua in the /Saved Games Folder, as some 3rd party audio apps are causing similar problem with intermittent FPS Drops.

Seems to be a DirectX 11 / 12 Hardware Polling issue in regards to Graphics cards.

Whether DCS was immune to it prior to 2.8 due to older MS Runtimes, or DirectX Runtimes, I cannot say.
Also I believe the issue was fixed by nVidia months ago, but with the newer RTX40 GameReady Drivers the issue has returned, even on my laptop's 3060.


Edited by SkateZilla
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47 minutes ago, zildac said:

Thanks for checking, perhaps it's a localised issue. Joy... I need to dig 👍

 

@Supmua What Nvidia driver are you running, I upgraded to the latest, but then rolled back to previous as thought that was the issue...DDU'd etc. Always use the cleaned versions from Gurud3d forum thread.

 

Latest driver.  Just did around 45 min of Apache flying, pretty much one of the most taxing aircrafts right now and it's pretty smooth with framelock at 45.  It must be some background process causing your stuttering.  I'm also running Asus Tweak III in the background since I overclock the heck out of my 4090, no issue.


Edited by Supmua

PC: 5800X3D/4090, 11700K/3090, 9900K/2080Ti.

Joystick bases: TMW, VPC WarBRD, MT50CM2, VKB GFII, FSSB R3L

Joystick grips: TM (Warthog, F/A-18C), Realsimulator (F-16SGRH, F-18CGRH), VKB (Kosmosima LH, MCG, MCG Pro), VPC MongoosT50-CM2

Throttles: TMW, Winwing Super Taurus, Logitech Throttle Quadrant, Realsimulator Throttle (soon)

VR: HTC Vive/Pro, Oculus Rift/Quest 2, Valve Index, Varjo Aero, https://forum.dcs.world/topic/300065-varjo-aero-general-guide-for-new-owners/

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