AMD rDNA 3 PRESS CONFERENCE

[SkateZilla]

  

 

Summary Notes:
79xx SERIES:
58B Transistors,
Multi-Chiplet Design, Unified Substrates on Infinity Fabric at 5.3TB/sec,
5NM GCD (rDNA CU/Shaders, Dual Issue SIMD, New FP Integrate AI Accelerators, New Display Engine, Dual Media Engines), 2X Instructions Per Clock
rDNA3 Brings back Decoupled Clocks, Shader Clocks at 2.3Ghz (25% Power Reduction), Front End clock at 2.5GHz (+15% Frequency)
Raw Compute Power 61 TFLOPS vs 23 TFLOPS rDNA2
6NM MCD (64-Bit Controller, GDDR6 Controllers, Up to 96MB 2nd Gen Infinity Cache),
New Media Engine Supports Dual Encode/Decode for ANC/HEVC 8K@60Hz AV1 Encode/Decode, AI Enhanced Encode, 1.8x Codec Performance Increase
No New Power Adapters Needed, (AMD Stab at nVidia, lol, Also said no new case, no new PSU, lol)
FSR 3.0 in 2023, 2x Performance over FSR2.0 @ 4K.
OBS Support Integrated,
AV1 Hardware Video Codec Integrated,
DP2.1 Output,
54Gbps Display Link 12Bit Per Channel, 68B Colors
1440P@900Hz, 4K@480Hz, 8K@165Hz (2x over rDNA2)

54% Increase in Performance Per Wat over rDNA2
165% Density Increase vs rDNA2
1.7 Native 4K Rendering over rDNA2
1.6x Native 4K Raytracing over rDNA2
15-20% Smaller Board and Cooler LxHxD


7900XTX:
90 rDNA CUs, 2.3 GHz Game Clock
355W TBP, 24 GB GDDR6X, 6x4GB@64Bit = 384 Bit
DECEMBER 13th, 2022, $999
61 TFLOPS
2.1 SLOT COOLER

7900XT:
84 CUs, 2Ghz Game Clock
300W TBP, 20 GB GDDR6X, 5x4GB@64Bit = 320-Bit
DECEMBER 13th, 2022, $899
2.0 SLOT COOLER

Edited November 3, 2022 by SkateZilla

[EightyDuce]

Waiting for a 3x8pin AIB XTX monster to throw a waterblock on. 

[SkateZilla]

6 minutes ago, EightyDuce said:

Waiting for a 3x8pin AIB XTX monster to throw a waterblock on. 

Considering Each 8Pin is 150w, and the Slot depending on PCIe Gen is 75-100w, you wont see any 3x 8Pin cards anytime soon.

AIBs might do 3x 8 Pins and OC the Cores and memory.

But 355w TBP is ridiculously low when you look at the numbers.

Edited November 3, 2022 by SkateZilla

[falcon_120]

When should we start getting the first real benchmarks from specialised content creators? Really looking forward to see how it compares  not only against the 4090 but also against the previous generation (3090 & ti specially).

Edited November 3, 2022 by falcon_120

[SkateZilla]

7 minutes ago, falcon_120 said:

When should start getting the first real benchmarks from specialised content creators? Really looking forward to see how it compares not against not only the 4090 but against the previous generation (3090 ti specially).

The AIB / Partner NDA isnt lifted yet.

Edited November 3, 2022 by SkateZilla

[EightyDuce]

50 minutes ago, SkateZilla said:

Considering Each 8Pin is 150w, and the Slot depending on PCIe Gen is 75-100w, you wont see any 3x 8Pin cards anytime soon.

AIBs might do 3x 8 Pins and OC the Cores and memory.

But 355w TBP is ridiculously low when you look at the numbers.

 

I wouldn't be too sure, though I suppose it depends on what's considered "soon". AMD left a lot on the table with only a 2x8pin, unless it's at the limits of the silicon near 355w, which I can't imagine to be a thing. 

In my un-scietific hobbyist opinion we will see 3x8pin from AIBs sooner rather than later. At Gen 4 PCI-E, it would give them a ceiling of near 500w, 4090 territory; but unlike 4090, AIB XTX would actually have something to offer over reference. 

[EightyDuce]

https://www.techpowerup.com/300641/asus-first-oem-to-show-off-custom-radeon-rx-7900-series-cards

 

Hopefully they show off pins.

 

Looks thicc... 

Edited November 3, 2022 by EightyDuce

[SkateZilla]

2 hours ago, EightyDuce said:

https://www.techpowerup.com/300641/asus-first-oem-to-show-off-custom-radeon-rx-7900-series-cards

 

Hopefully they show off pins.

 

Looks thicc... 

 

its 3x8Pin

2 hours ago, EightyDuce said:

I wouldn't be too sure, though I suppose it depends on what's considered "soon". AMD left a lot on the table with only a 2x8pin, unless it's at the limits of the silicon near 355w, which I can't imagine to be a thing. 

In my un-scietific hobbyist opinion we will see 3x8pin from AIBs sooner rather than later. At Gen 4 PCI-E, it would give them a ceiling of near 500w, 4090 territory; but unlike 4090, AIB XTX would actually have something to offer over reference. 

75w from the slot and 3x150 is 525, and gen 4 would be 550

[Bossco82]

I must admit I am watching this one very closely. I would love it if AMD really came through on this one. The larger memory bus width is what is grabbing my attention, quite excited.

[EightyDuce]

26 minutes ago, SkateZilla said:

its 3x8Pin

75w from the slot and 3x150 is 525, and gen 4 would be 550

Going to be interesting. 

[SkateZilla]

44 minutes ago, EightyDuce said:

Going to be interesting. 

I mean, reference and underspec designs are going to be 2x8Pin,

The Higher Efficiency Binned XTX 6900 Chips are on cards with only 2x8Pins.

The funny part is, you can prolly undervolt the GPU and get similar or better performance and lower temps, AMD is generous with the voltage on rDNA2, if the trend continues, you can undervolt the rDNA3, and get even better efficientcy..

Edited November 4, 2022 by SkateZilla

[Mars Exulte]

Really interesting to see the results of all this. I still plan on keeping the 3090 I picked up, but I'll be watching closely, anyway

[Thinder]

2 hours ago, SkateZilla said:

I mean, reference and underspec designs are going to be 2x8Pin,

The Higher Efficiency Binned XTX 6900 Chips are on cards with only 2x8Pins.

The funny part is, you can prolly undervolt the GPU and get similar or better performance and lower temps, AMD is generous with the voltage on rDNA2, if the trend continues, you can undervolt the rDNA3, and get even better efficientcy..

 

That's what they anounced a couple of years ago, more perfs for less Power consumption which is what we need, it proves you don't need to build monsters to get performances.

From my PoV, it's a far better way to bring technologies to street market.

Still remains the question of which motherboards and CPUs will fully support those cards, if anyone has those informations...

[SkateZilla]

with RTX4090, not only are you spending $1600+, but you'd likely be spending more on a PSU, Case, Aftermarket ATX3.0 12VHPWER Cable that isnt going to melt, and at 400-500+w Power Consumption, you're looking at a noticeable jump in your electric bill if you game 5 to 6 hours a day,

As stated, My R7970 Lightning Draws the same TBP as the RX7900XT, it's funny I've ran this GPU so long, AMD has come full Circle in Model Numbers, lol,
Im Upgrading from a R7970HD, to a RX7900XT 12 Years later.

On the bright side, my GPU for Some reason is still selling for $500 on ebay.
But It'd likely get demoted to a Media Server role.

[EightyDuce]

7 hours ago, SkateZilla said:

I mean, reference and underspec designs are going to be 2x8Pin,

The Higher Efficiency Binned XTX 6900 Chips are on cards with only 2x8Pins.

The funny part is, you can prolly undervolt the GPU and get similar or better performance and lower temps, AMD is generous with the voltage on rDNA2, if the trend continues, you can undervolt the rDNA3, and get even better efficientcy..

 

With nVidia (my current 3060ti) undervolting has been been very fruitful. I can't speak for any recent AMD. 

I've ran AMD (ATI) for the majority of my gaming life, with a 3dFx voodoo and a Riva TNT mixed in. My last AMD experience was my R290 flashed to a R290X and that puppy was a monster. Then I went to a 1080ti which was a beast and carried me for the next 4.5 years. The 7900XTX is the one to bring me back and I honestly can't wait to throw a waterblock on it and see what it can do. 

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

1 hour ago, SkateZilla said:

with RTX4090, not only are you spending $1600+, but you'd likely be spending more on a PSU, Case, Aftermarket ATX3.0 12VHPWER Cable that isnt going to melt, and at 400-500+w Power Consumption, you're looking at a noticeable jump in your electric bill if you game 5 to 6 hours a day,

I recently find out, to my dismay, adopting the 4090 also means one need the biggest case available, it may not fit a "compact" size case.

[LucShep]

Quite frankly, very disapointed.

Lots of BS marketing, buzzwords, and misleading arguments (8K that is not 8K, old PCI-E slot now is a feature(!) used as a defensive low blow towards Nvidia, big etc).
The worst offender was pricing.
It was kind of predicted that AMD would inflate prices right at the very end, taking momentum advantage on recent Nvidia's failures, and sadly that was what happened. 

If it now means accepting $1000 MSRP for a GPU as "competitive pricing" (and we all know in reality MSRP is a pipe dream), then PC gaming is doomed on the mid to long term.
FWIW, two years ago the price of the RX6900XT ($1000) was ridiculed and the product got totally overlooked (if it wasn't for miners), exactly because it was utterly expensive...
Also, this $100 price difference between the two presented products, when the performance difference is rumored to be about 20%, is certainly matter for criticism.

In the end, these Nvidia or AMD new GPUs are more a matter of "less of evils", rather than real value and price/performance progress, as it used to be just over two years ago.

All hail the used market with RTX 3090s, 3080Tis and 3080s at far, far more affordable prices. That's where the propper performance for value is at right now, and what everybody should be getting for a GPU (for DCS but not only), IMHO. Not these new overpriced, exploitative, over-marketed products.  
Looking at local used markets and Ebay as I'm writing this... 

Edited November 4, 2022 by LucShep

[SkateZilla]

2 hours ago, VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants said:

I recently find out, to my dismay, adopting the 4090 also means one need the biggest case available, it may not fit a "compact" size case.

At some Point, maybe with the RTX5090, nVidia should just put Mainboard Mounts on the back of it w/ a shroud, and external standoffs for the PSU and HDDs,
Mount the Mainboard to it and call it a day.

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

And GPU box, which contains of ice to submerge the GPU into, would then be a reality....

[EightyDuce]

3 hours ago, LucShep said:

Quite frankly, very disapointed.

Lots of BS marketing, buzzwords, and misleading arguments (8K that is not 8K, old PCI-E slot now is a feature(!) used as a defensive low blow towards Nvidia, big etc).
The worst offender was pricing.
It was kind of predicted that AMD would inflate prices right at the very end, taking momentum advantage on recent Nvidia's failures, and sadly that was what happened. 

If it now means accepting $1000 MSRP for a GPU as "competitive pricing" (and we all know in reality MSRP is a pipe dream), then PC gaming is doomed on the mid to long term.
FWIW, two years ago the price of the RX6900XT ($1000) was ridiculed and the product got totally overlooked (if it wasn't for miners), exactly because it was utterly expensive...
Also, this $100 price difference between the two presented products, when the performance difference is rumored to be about 20%, is certainly matter for criticism.

In the end, these Nvidia or AMD new GPUs are more a matter of "less of evils", rather than real value and price/performance progress, as it used to be just over two years ago.

All hail the used market with RTX 3090s, 3080Tis and 3080s at far, far more affordable prices. That's where the propper performance for value is at right now, and what everybody should be getting for a GPU (for DCS but not only), IMHO. Not these new overpriced, exploitative, over-marketed products.  
Looking at local used markets and Ebay as I'm writing this... 

 

The marketing and "buzzwords" is not uncommon in these events and can be seen in Intel and Nvidia events.

As for pricing, a lot of this will depend on each individual's perception of what "value" is. It appears that you aren't in the market for a $1000+ GPU and that's absolutely fine. You can grab a 3090ti/6900XT for near $600-700 and have 50-60% the performance of the new high-end GPUs.

As far as pricing of the 7900XT(x), I would argue is far from disappointing and is actually very competitive. If the expected performance ends up being true: ie. 7900XTX performance falling between a 4080 ($1200) and a 4090 ($1600) for $1000, that's $200-800 you can put back into your system. As for MSRP being a pipedream, market will dictate the pricing by other vendors (amazon, newegg, etc) but AMD will be selling the refence card at MSRP. Gauging price/value by looking at data from the last two years is a flawed due to the extreme shortage  and scalping brought on by mining and logistical issues. We should also remember that these are top-end cards. As a comparison, in 2017 I paid just shy of $800 for my 1080ti, now 5 years later, I would be paying $200 (25% premium) more for 300-400% increase in performance. To me doesn't seem to be a bad deal, especially if you hold on to your hardware and don't upgrade every other generation. It is a personal preference, but I'm a firm believer into "buy once cry once."

That being said, AMD is definitely making good margins on these cards, more so than Nvidia, simply because it's cheaper to manufacture Navi (chiplet) vs. Lovelace (mono); but innovation that's not a reason to cheapen your brand. AMD is trying to get mindshare and get away from the perception of being a "value" brand. They have a competitive product and they are capitalizing on it while still providing value to the consumer (more so than Nvidia). If this trickles down to mid-range, then 7700XT(X?) should be quite a card, with performance comparable to 3090ti/6900XT but for around $450-500.

PC gaming is far from doomed (this get's touted with every new hardware cycle), as evident by how fast these GPU's fly off the shelves.

 

Just my two cents, but the future is looking good.

Edited November 4, 2022 by EightyDuce

[LucShep]

3 hours ago, EightyDuce said:

The marketing and "buzzwords" is not uncommon in these events and can be seen in Intel and Nvidia events.

The marketing and buzzwords perhaps, but the misleading facts are quite egregious.

The "8k" they presented is an ultrawide resolution (much shorter vertical area) that is not even close to 8K pixel count, therefore misleading.

The "we use the old/regular PCI-E adapter/cable therefore with ours you can use it on your old PSU"  was either misinformed or misleading on purpose, as you have more than one brand presenting cables/adapters meant for the current (non ATX 3.0) PSUs to actually use them with the RTX4000 series.
It's also quite in bad taste, as to present a problem that just appeared 2 or 3 weeks ago on the competitor product, as "Hey!  Ours didn't have it from concept because.. .errr, well, hmm.. we knew better and was exactly intentional! ...right??" 
 

3 hours ago, EightyDuce said:

As a comparison, in 2017 I paid just shy of $800 for my 1080ti, now 5 years later, I would be paying $200 (25% premium) more for 300-400% increase in performance. To me doesn't seem to be a bad deal, especially if you hold on to your hardware and don't upgrade every other generation. It is a personal preference, but I'm a firm believer into "buy once cry once."

Then you were either robbed, or bought the unnecessary ubber OC model from one of the AIBs.
The MRSP of the GTX1080Ti FE was $699 and for most of the time it actually sold at or below that price worldwide! 

Considering continents like Europe now never get prices below MRSP+22% (and actually more for the RTX4090), how much do you think these RX 7900s will actually sell for? 

Also, one could argue that, while the RX 7900 XTX is "fairly priced" (if judging where it slots in performance - between RTX4090 and RTX4080), the RX 7900 XT is really badly priced because it actually replaces the RX6800XT (which was $649 MSRP).

In two generations we're paying double the price for the same segment products. The HW market never worked on a basis of "new product faster than old, means price increase accordingly", which is what these manufacturers are pulling on us - with which you seem to actually agree with (??). It never worked like this, that is not progress.
There is no more lockdown and mining crisis to justify the price gouging we had for nearly two years. Noone should bite that bait anymore, as it will only justify these ludicrous prices - as we're seeing now.
 

3 hours ago, EightyDuce said:

That being said, AMD is definitely making good margins on these cards, more so than Nvidia, simply because it's cheaper to manufacture Navi (chiplet) vs. Lovelace (mono); but innovation that's not a reason to cheapen your brand. AMD is trying to get mindshare and get away from the perception of being a "value" brand. They have a competitive product and they are capitalizing on it while still providing value to the consumer (more so than Nvidia). If this trickles down to mid-range, then 7700XT(X?) should be quite a card, with performance comparable to 3090ti/6900XT but for around $450-500.

PC gaming is far from doomed (this get's touted with every new hardware cycle), as evident by how fast these GPU's fly off the shelves.

The 7700XT is only speculation. It won't come anytime soon and it's not even known if it will feature chiplet design.
You can now find used RTX3090 and RX6900XT for around $650 (+/-) and prices will only decrease - that is a fairly good value, and you can get right now.

You're missing the global picture. Seeing these ludicrous prices for new GPUs of high-end segment means the mid-range segment prices will increase accordingly (and again, the MSRP being a pipe dream) - paying what you would have for high-end just little over two years ago.

PC gaming is doomed as in, it's now a hobbie for the riches, like was before the late 90s.
The fellas paying the RTX4090s and RX7900XTX are the miniscule elite of gaming, and never meant that much on the bigger picture because they matter very little for the sales numbers of games (simulations or otherwise, AAA or otherwise) and therefore to the real development of such products - stagnation as well as failure increase of otherwise good projects may increase. The bulk on ROI of gaming development (simulations included) sits within the mid-range, where the bigger numbers of potential customers are.
New tech and HW horsepower only matter if the widest public can reach it - if we're only left with these "small elites" (because they are) then even products like DCS will fade and die, because the numbers of customers (old and new, who can no longer afford this pace) will dwindle on and on.

Edited November 4, 2022 by LucShep

[EightyDuce]

3 hours ago, LucShep said:

The marketing and buzzwords perhaps, but the misleading facts are quite egregious.

The "8k" they presented is an ultrawide resolution (much shorter vertical area) that is not even close to 8K pixel count, therefore misleading.

The "we use the old/regular PCI-E adapter/cable therefore with ours you can use it on your old PSU"  was either misinformed or misleading on purpose, as you have more than one brand presenting cables/adapters meant for the current (non ATX 3.0) PSUs to actually use them with the RTX4000 series.
It's also quite in bad taste, as to present a problem that just appeared 2 or 3 weeks ago on the competitor product, as "Hey!  Ours didn't have it from concept because.. .errr, well, hmm.. we knew better and was exactly intentional! ...right??" 
 

Then you were either robbed, or bought the unnecessary ubber OC model from one of the AIBs.
The MRSP of the GTX1080Ti FE was $699 and for most of the time it actually sold at or below that price worldwide! 

Considering continents like Europe now never get prices below MRSP+22% (and actually more for the RTX4090), how much do you think these RX 7900s will actually sell for? 

Also, one could argue that, while the RX 7900 XTX is "fairly priced" (if judging where it slots in performance - between RTX4090 and RTX4080), the RX 7900 XT is really badly priced because it actually replaces the RX6800XT (which was $649 MSRP).

In two generations we're paying double the price for the same segment products. The HW market never worked on a basis of "new product faster than old, means price increase accordingly", which is what these manufacturers are pulling on us - with which you seem to actually agree with (??). It never worked like this, that is not progress.
There is no more lockdown and mining crisis to justify the price gouging we had for nearly two years. Noone should bite that bait anymore, as it will only justify these ludicrous prices - as we're seeing now.
 

The 7700XT is only speculation. It won't come anytime soon and it's not even known if it will feature chiplet design.
You can now find used RTX3090 and RX6900XT for around $650 (+/-) and prices will only decrease - that is a fairly good value, and you can get right now.

You're missing the global picture. Seeing these ludicrous prices for new GPUs of high-end segment means the mid-range segment prices will increase accordingly (and again, the MSRP being a pipe dream) - paying what you would have for high-end just little over two years ago.

PC gaming is doomed as in, it's now a hobbie for the riches, like was before the late 90s.
The fellas paying the RTX4090s and RX7900XTX are the miniscule elite of gaming, and never meant that much on the bigger picture because they matter very little for the sales numbers of games (simulations or otherwise, AAA or otherwise) and therefore to the real development of such products - stagnation as well as failure increase of otherwise good projects may increase. The bulk on ROI of gaming development (simulations included) sits within the mid-range, where the bigger numbers of potential customers are.
New tech and HW horsepower only matter if the widest public can reach it - if we're only left with these "small elites" (because they are) then even products like DCS will fade and die, because the numbers of customers (old and new, who can no longer afford this pace) will dwindle on and on.

 

Getting a but off topic, but my 1080ti came with a waterblock, thus the price difference over reference. 

Like I said before, there is a market for everyone; those that are willing to pay for the high end, those that aren't, those that are happy in the midrange, those gaming on the lower end; the only ones in an unhappy place are those that want high end performance at midrange price. 

Reality is that cost of doing business today is more expensive than it was a year or two ago. 

I would tend to agree with you that the XT on it's face doesnt seem to make a lot of sense only being $100 difference from XTX, but I'm sure AMD did their homework. Wouldn't be surprised if you can OC XT to reference XTX performance. 

As for pc gaming dying, again, that's just not a thing. Reality of it is you don't need a $1000 GPU and by and large (steam survey) people are happily gaming with $200-400 GPU's, even for DCS. If you're in VR, then yes, I see the need, however, if you're doing VR then you are in the high-end territory. For example, I'm playing on a placeholder PC right now, 10400F 32gb ram and a 3060TI which gets me 60+ FPS at 1440p; PC I'm building is aimed at VR play and will be high-end, with a high-end price. I came up in the late 90s and early 2000's and gaming is in a better place today than it was then, at least for me. 

 

[Thinder]

9 hours ago, VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants said:

I recently find out, to my dismay, adopting the 4090 also means one need the biggest case available, it may not fit a "compact" size case.

That's the first thing I check on with Power supply...

35 minutes ago, EightyDuce said:

I would tend to agree with you that the XT on it's face doesnt seem to make a lot of sense only being $100 difference from XTX, but I'm sure AMD did their homework. Wouldn't be surprised if you can OC XT to reference XTX performance.

Good info, I just checked the dimentions and all I need to upgrade is the PSU for a 850W, I might just got for this one but I'll have a larger CPU bottleneck, although perhaps not much of an issue because my CPU can cope wiuth a 3090 and still not be the bottleneck...

In the case it is a real issue, I'll have to upgrade motherboard, CPU and its fan well.

Wait and see.

Edited November 4, 2022 by Thinder

[Voyager]

17 hours ago, EightyDuce said:

Going to be interesting. 

Very. Predictions I've seen are at at 450W, it's expected to trade blows with the 4090 in raster performance, but lose in raytracing. 

From what I'm hearing, AMD decided cranking the power on their reference cards to beat in raster only wasn't enough to let them claim the crown, so the reference cards are focusing on being the most sane high end option, while still keeping up with the 3090 in RT performance, and squashing the 4080 in everything else. 

But the chip itself has a lot more gas in the tank, and with AIBs stocked up on 450-600W heat sink designs for their nVidia cards (and now AD102 chip supply to put in them) I think they're banking on AIBs making the ridiculous cards that take a dedicated case and power chord, and having those benchmarked against 4090's and generating the hype. 

And I think that's also why they did not show hard numbers at the launch: they know the reference card will lose, so why lock that in now, before AIBs have had a chance to go crazy. 

[Mars Exulte]

8 hours ago, LucShep said:

.If it now means accepting $1000 MSRP for a GPU as "competitive pricing" (and we all know in reality MSRP is a pipe dream), then PC gaming is doomed on the mid to long term.

I paid $1000 for a watercooled R9-295x2 ages ago. And the original Titan card was $2-3k. Dunno where you've been, but the high end cards have been hitting $800-1000 for a really long time, way before crypto and this other stuff came up.

 

And really? PC GaMiNg is dOoMeD!!1!! Jesus @@ Guns as a hobby are way more expensive than PC gaming ever was or will be, yet every dollar store redneck I know has a rack full of AR-15s and hunting rifles and routinely blows off a couple hundred dollars of ammo. People have money for the things they want to have it for.