This is a new one on me - AGM-65D

[Caldera]

Hey All,

So take a look at the AAR below.   Two AGM-65D's were shot in quick succession.   The targets were really close to each other in convoy formation.   It appears to me that the second Maverick took out the first one and a target (Ground-1-10).

I have never seen that happen before so I am looking for feed back.  Anyone else?

Caldera

Edited November 11, 2022 by Caldera

[TheGhostOfDefi]

To me it seems like the BTR took the other AGM out with its own explosions. 

[Caldera]

Defi,

I can't figure it out completely.  If you notice the 1st missile targeted Ground-1-9 and the second missile targeted Ground-1-10.  Which is what I recall doing.  But, Ground-1-10 was the only vehicle that got hit (and destroyed).   Logically, the first missile then had to have been taken out by the second.  As the time stamps for both events occur at 19:07:31, indicating that everything happened at once.

So it is like the second missile caught up to the first.  The launch sequence was pretty fast.  According to the AAR the second missile left the rails 7 seconds after the first.

Never had that happen before.

Caldera

Edited November 12, 2022 by Caldera

[jaylw314]

1 hour ago, Caldera said:

Defi,

I can't figure it out completely.  If you notice the 1st missile targeted Ground-1-9 and the second missile targeted Ground-1-10.  Which is what I recall doing.  But, Ground-1-10 was the only vehicle that got hit (and destroyed).   Logically, the first missile then had to have been taken out by the second.  As the time stamps for both events occur at 19:07:31, indicating that everything happened at once.

So it is like the second missile caught up to the first.  The launch sequence was pretty fast.  According to the AAR the second missile left the rails 7 seconds after the first.

Never had that happen before.

Caldera

 

Or it just plain missed?   It might have been a case of a combat bush or an armored tree?

[Caldera]

Jay,

I don't think none of the above.   There are no trees in the scenario.

 

It is pretty clear to me that the AAR says:

USA --> hit --> AGM-65D = AGM-65D

USA --> kill --> AGM-65D = AGM-65D

Then it says:

RUS --> hit --> AGM-65D = APC-BTR-80

RUS --> kill  --> AGM-65D = APC-BTR-80

It must have given credit for the missile kill to the Russian BTR-80.

 

This only really gets me to wondering because the second missile was fired after a 7 second delay from the first.  Yet they both hit at the same time.  From my testing with the AGM-65L this was also (always) the case.  I could not salvo those missiles, because they would always track the laser to the first target.  And only the first target was ever destroyed and both would hit at the same time.  I could never reposition the laser on the second target and get the second missile to hit it,

I have not had the AGM-65D ever do that to me prior.  I am wondering if something got changed.  Other than that, these targets were really close to each other in convoy formation.  So the explosion of the second missile hit the first missile a fraction before it hit the BTR and took it out.  But that would mean, that the second missile after a 7 second firing delay actually hit first.  This is what the AAR time sequence indicates.

In the real world physics with missiles fired as I have describe above, will both hit at the same exact time?

Caldera

 

Edited November 14, 2022 by Caldera

[Coole28]

I can’t speak for real world physics, but as far as DCS is concerned AGMs fired in sequence can overtake the first missile fired, and it happens quite frequently at longer ranges.  I’ve learned to just assume all my missiles will impact at the same time, and to never target vehicles close together in a single pass.  In a convoy I’ll only target lead and tail vehicle on the first pass, then readjust targets after they react to contact.

[Caldera]

Coole,

Thanks!  This kind of the affirmation that I was looking for.

As I think back when firing the AGM-65L, after firing the first and waiting to fire the second the TOF counter never changes between shots.  It simply continues to count down.  So even with a substantial delay in the firing of the second missile the TOF is exactly as it would be if I were firing the first.

I also notice this same effect with laser rockets.

My guess that up till now at least concerning the AGM-65D, that the spread of my targets had been great enough the above result had never happened or I had never noticed it happening.

Still wondering however for real world physics if is this accurate.  Anyone know?

Not making sense to me...

Caldera

[Caldera]

Hey All,

So this really is a "Thing" now.

As you can see 3 Mavericks shot at 3 different targets and only 2 targets were killed.  In this case it looks like the 1st Maverick flew to the target, however the 3rd Maverick took out the second.  And this time the SA-19 was given credit for the kill.

I can't fully understand what happened.  TacView simply shows the Maverick missed TRUCK-1-3.  I have attached the TacView file.

Caldera

 

 

 

 

Tacview-20221118-100937-DCS-TRN 002 A-10C SA-9 SA-19.zip.acmi

Edited November 18, 2022 by Caldera

[Caldera]

Hey All,

Just more of the same...

This AAR is broken into two sections due to the length.

The first 4 shots were on targets had more spread between them.  The last two shots the targets were adjacent.  Where one (5th) was shot at Grison-1-5 and one (6th) was shot at Grison-1-6.  Grison-1-5 and the 6th Maverick were killed by the 5th Maverick.  There were 6 shots and only 5 kills.

The difference in the AAR is seems to be determined by whether the TGP is used as SPI or the Maverick is simply slewed onto the target.  Notice shot 1 is TGP, 2-4 are slewed then 5 and 6 are TGP.  This is how I performed the attack.

This something definitely new.  Suppose it is intentional or a bug?

As a side note, I have noticed that the SA-19 is no longer shooting down Mavericks.  How long is that been going on for?

Caldera

 

[Caldera]

So...

Another attack, but with the same result.

Clearly there is spacing between the Mavericks as shown in the upper screen shot.  The lower shows both missiles hitting their target.  In the AAR the same result.   Grison-1-3 was not destroyed and the Maverick bound for it was destroyed by the other Maverick.

The above screen shot just shows the spacing of the first for Mavericks shot.

Caldera

Edited November 19, 2022 by Caldera

[jaylw314]

28 minutes ago, Caldera said:

As a side note, I have noticed that the SA-19 is no longer shooting down Mavericks.  How long is that been going on for?

Caldera

 

FWIW, I was just flying a mission yesterday and was trying to take out an SA-15 with an AGM-65D, but a nearby SA-19 batted it down literally 100 feet before it hit  

 

Did you remember to turn it on in the mission editor?

Edited November 19, 2022 by jaylw314

[Hobel]

vor 31 Minuten schrieb Caldera:

Hey All,

Just more of the same...

This AAR is broken into two sections due to the length.

The first 4 shots were on targets had more spread between them.  The last two shots the targets were adjacent.  Where one (5th) was shot at Grison-1-5 and one (6th) was shot at Grison-1-6.  Grison-1-5 and the 6th Maverick were killed by the 5th Maverick.  There were 6 shots and only 5 kills.

The difference in the AAR is seems to be determined by whether the TGP is used as SPI or the Maverick is simply slewed onto the target.  Notice shot 1 is TGP, 2-4 are slewed then 5 and 6 are TGP.  This is how I performed the attack.

This something definitely new.  Suppose it is intentional or a bug?

As a side note, I have noticed that the SA-19 is no longer shooting down Mavericks.  How long is that been going on for?

Caldera

 

Can you save the track file and share it here?

[Caldera]

Jay,

Hmm..  Something else new then.  How do I turn it on in the Mission Editor?  I never had to do that before.

Caldera

[Hobel]

vor 4 Minuten schrieb Caldera:

Jay,

Hmm..  Something else new then.  How do I turn it on in the Mission Editor?  I never had to do that before.

Caldera

Saved Games\DCS.openbeta\Tracks

[Caldera]

Hobel,

Yes I do know how to make a track.  I was referring to Jay and turning on the SA-19's.

This attack seems a bit more shaky, I was nervous.  Go figure...

The track file is attached.  You can see the SA-19's shooting at me, because I was slow in my sequence of the first four Mavericks.

Caldera

 

 

A-10C MAV 01.trk

Edited November 19, 2022 by Caldera

[Hobel]

vor 34 Minuten schrieb Caldera:

Hobel,

Yes I do know how to make a track.  I was referring to Jay and turning on the SA-19's.

This attack seems a bit more shaky, I was nervous.  Go figure...

The track file is attached.  You can see the SA-19's shooting at me, because I was slow in my sequence of the first four Mavericks.

Caldera

 

 

A-10C MAV 01.trk 2.08 MB · 0 Downloads

 

ah i see it looks like the impact of the first Maverick destroys the 2 due to the AOE damage.

is that what you mean?

 

there are such cases in DCS also with bombs that if you drop a few only one bomb arrives because the 2 was already destroyed by the AOE damage

Edited November 19, 2022 by Hobel

[jaylw314]

2 hours ago, Caldera said:

Jay,

Hmm..  Something else new then.  How do I turn it on in the Mission Editor?  I never had to do that before.

Caldera

Add an Advanced Waypoint Action:

Edited November 19, 2022 by jaylw314

[Caldera]

Jay,

Thanks!  I will check to see if that is the default value.  I am pretty sure that it used to be.

Hobel,

No not really, this is something new and different.  I mean it looks like one AGM-65D is destroying another.  Watch the track again and notice that after my first salvo hits their will be a kill message that says something like "AGM-64D".  This means that somehow I have killed one of my own Mavericks.  That is how I noticed the first time that something was different.

Caldera

 

[Hobel]

vor 12 Minuten schrieb Caldera:

This means that somehow I have killed one of my own Mavericks.

yes that is what i said

and what you see in the video

Edited November 19, 2022 by Hobel

[_SteelFalcon_]

If you shoot 2 mavs at 2 targets very close together, it does sometimes happen. If targets are so close to eachother, i usually wait about 3 sec before launching another mav, just to avoid this situation

[silverdevil]

On 11/13/2022 at 7:24 PM, Caldera said:

In the real world physics with missiles fired as I have describe above, will both hit at the same exact time?

we can assume that the two shots were not fired at the same time even if it was only a few seconds. did you happen to notice your speed during the two shots? the speed of the AC does affect the speed of the missile. i have had all sorts of occasions where munitions of varying types killed each other. since you have tacview, you can gather how fast the missile and AC were at the time of firing.

[Caldera]

Hobel,

Ah Oops Sorry!

Yes, what  you said is correct.

All,

Take a look at the TacView photos, there is certainly interval between Mavericks.  That does not seem as important as the spacing between targets.  All that said it does not happen 100% of the time.

Caldera

Edited November 28, 2022 by Caldera