Jump to content

Circling Approaches!


mytai01
 Share

Recommended Posts

Most halfway decent airports that have instrument approaches will be TERPSed out to include a circling approach. Such things are very useful if the wind favors landing the other direction, but the runway you need doesn't have a sufficient approach. In fact, if the wind is really strong at your destination airport and the crosswind is too strong for any of its runways, you'll have to divert to an airport that has a better wind runway alignment. I had to do that, and ATC tried to get me to land with a 31knot tailwind. That's when I remembered the circling approach. You just follow the instrument approach and start circling where and the direction ATC tells you to ("Enfield 11, Circle South for RY35 at 3 DME".) Unfortunately, I had to be my own ATC. Maybe one day we'll get sophisticated ATC. Still DCS is a fantastic experience. Thanks!


Edited by mytai01
  • Like 1

MS Win7 Pro x64, Intel i7-6700K 4.0Ghz, Corsair RAM 16Gb,EVGA GeForce GTX 1080 FTW GAMING ACX 3.0, w/ Adjustable RGB LED Graphics Card 08G-P4-6286-KR, Creative Labs SB X-FI Titanium Fatal1ty Champ PCIe Sound Card, Corsair Neutron XTI 1TB SSD, TM Warthog Throttle & Stick, TM TPR Pedels, Oculus Rift VR Headset CV1, Klipsch Promedia 4.1 Speakers...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Alot of the USAF crews training in the T-1/T-6/T-38, and a few of the Air Guard guys in the MC-12 (think militarized version of the King-Air 350) do this where I am. When contacting TWR, they request/tell them they are inbound on the ILS for RWY 13, (currently a closed RWY) w/ a circling approach to RWY 17R for the option. The tower typically grants their request...and this is the part I get confused about... the tower will tell them to execute their "circling approach to the 'NW' for RWY 17R...cleared for the option'. Why is it for the NW and not by North as it is conducted?  


Edited by =DROOPY=

Unique aviation images for the passionate aviation enthusiast:

Fb: FighterJetGeek Aviation Images - Home | Facebook

IG: https://www.instagram.com/the_fighterjetgeek/

Aviation Photography Digest: AviationPhotoDigest.com/author/SMEEK9


 
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, =DROOPY= said:

The tower typically grants their request...and this is the part I get confused about... the tower will tell them to execute their "circling approach to the 'NW' for RWY 17R...cleared for the option'. Why is it for the NW and not by North as it is conducted?  

I think it's to add SA as circlings can get messy quickly if you have the wrong mental picture. The other way to circle would be the long way around *south*, so adding northWEST seems redundant.

I once saw a C-32 doing circle-to-lands at Savannah when I went there for my IR XC. Looked pretty cool!

So ein Feuerball, JUNGE!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Bremspropeller said:

I think it's to add SA as circlings can get messy quickly if you have the wrong mental picture. The other way to circle would be the long way around *south*, so adding northWEST seems redundant.

Understood. It makes more sense from perspective of other a/c that could be inbound for a straight in...

  • Like 1

Unique aviation images for the passionate aviation enthusiast:

Fb: FighterJetGeek Aviation Images - Home | Facebook

IG: https://www.instagram.com/the_fighterjetgeek/

Aviation Photography Digest: AviationPhotoDigest.com/author/SMEEK9


 
Link to comment
Share on other sites

They're just being very specific about the section of the pie they want them to fly the circle. Even if you said, circle N they should still understand and do the same thing. There's no hard and fast rule about NW vs N that I've ever heard of. It's just more precise and probably in the local SOP what they're going to actually say.

Well, here it is from the horse's mouth:

FAAO 7110.65Z

4−8−6. CIRCLING APPROACH

a. Circling approach instructions may only be given for aircraft landing at airports with operational control towers. (Most aren't 24 hours, including military)

b. Include in the approach clearance instructions to circle to the runway in use if landing will be made on a runway other than that aligned with the direction of instrument approach. When the direction of the circling maneuver in relation to the airport/runway is required, state the direction (eight cardinal compass points) and specify a left or right base/downwind leg as appropriate.

PHRASEOLOGY− CIRCLE TO RUNWAY (number),

or

CIRCLE (direction using eight cardinal compass points) OF THE AIRPORT/RUNWAY FOR A LEFT/RIGHT BASE/DOWNWIND TO RUNWAY (number).

NOTE− Where standard instrument approach procedures (SIAPs) authorize circling approaches, they provide a basic minimum of 300 feet of obstacle clearance at the MDA within the circling area considered. The dimensions of these areas, expressed in distances from the runways, vary for the different approach categories of aircraft. In some cases a SIAP may otherwise restrict circling approach maneuvers.

c. Do not issue clearances, such as “extend downwind leg,” which might cause an aircraft to exceed the circling approach area distance from the runways within which required circling approach obstacle clearance is assured.


Edited by mytai01

MS Win7 Pro x64, Intel i7-6700K 4.0Ghz, Corsair RAM 16Gb,EVGA GeForce GTX 1080 FTW GAMING ACX 3.0, w/ Adjustable RGB LED Graphics Card 08G-P4-6286-KR, Creative Labs SB X-FI Titanium Fatal1ty Champ PCIe Sound Card, Corsair Neutron XTI 1TB SSD, TM Warthog Throttle & Stick, TM TPR Pedels, Oculus Rift VR Headset CV1, Klipsch Promedia 4.1 Speakers...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

ATC can only issue specific circling instructions when the weather is at or above visual approach conditions (they are really issuing you a visual approach clearance).

Below visual minimums, you can circle however you like within the charted restrictions.

That being said, circling approaches can quickly kill you if you don't train for them properly and follow the training.

 

 

 

 

EDsignaturefleet.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

IMG_20221121_173735030.jpg

On 11/20/2022 at 8:24 AM, =475FG= Dawger said:

ATC can only issue specific circling instructions when the weather is at or above visual approach conditions (they are really issuing you a visual approach clearance).

Below visual minimums, you can circle however you like within the charted restrictions.

That being said, circling approaches can quickly kill you if you don't train for them properly and follow the training.

Actually, circling approach minimums depend on the specific approach at a specific airport and the approach category of the aircraft flying it. An example of minimums are on the bottom right of the approach plate.

IMG_20221121_173735030.jpg


Edited by mytai01

MS Win7 Pro x64, Intel i7-6700K 4.0Ghz, Corsair RAM 16Gb,EVGA GeForce GTX 1080 FTW GAMING ACX 3.0, w/ Adjustable RGB LED Graphics Card 08G-P4-6286-KR, Creative Labs SB X-FI Titanium Fatal1ty Champ PCIe Sound Card, Corsair Neutron XTI 1TB SSD, TM Warthog Throttle & Stick, TM TPR Pedels, Oculus Rift VR Headset CV1, Klipsch Promedia 4.1 Speakers...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, mytai01 said:

Actually, circling approach minimums depend on the specific approach at a specific airport and the approach category of the aircraft flying it. An example of minimums are on the bottom right of the approach plate.

Plus the chart restricts the availability of circling options on the top left:

- no circling at night

- no circling to the west

I once saw an Aloha 737 do a circling from RWY 35 to RWY 03 on short'ish final. Looked and sounded cool, standing on the beach of that bay off south of RWY 03.

On 11/20/2022 at 7:24 PM, =475FG= Dawger said:

That being said, circling approaches can quickly kill you if you don't train for them properly and follow the training.

Plus, circling at minimums with some unfavourable wind can get you into a position of being "set up" for a crash in Cat C and D aircraft easily. Here's a great analysis of the LJ35 crash at TEB in conjunction with the - at times - borderline dangerous circling approach. It's a great site altogether, worth spending some time on, btw:

https://code7700.com/kteb_circling_conundrum.htm#gsc.tab=0

So ein Feuerball, JUNGE!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, mytai01 said:

IMG_20221121_173735030.jpg

Actually, circling approach minimums depend on the specific approach at a specific airport and the approach category of the aircraft flying it. An example of minimums are on the bottom right of the approach plate.

IMG_20221121_173735030.jpg

 

You do not comprehend what I am telling you.

ATC can issue a clearance to circle at any time.

However, ATC cannot issue specific circling instructions (For example, "Circle Northwest") unless the weather is above ATC minimums for issuing visual approach clearances. (Normally, ceiling at least 500 ft above minimum vectoring altitude and visibility greater than 3 miles)

This has absolutely nothing to do with published circling minimums.


Edited by =475FG= Dawger

 

 

 

 

EDsignaturefleet.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/21/2022 at 10:44 PM, Bremspropeller said:

Plus the chart restricts the availability of circling options on the top left:

- no circling at night

- no circling to the west

I once saw an Aloha 737 do a circling from RWY 35 to RWY 03 on short'ish final. Looked and sounded cool, standing on the beach of that bay off south of RWY 03.

Plus, circling at minimums with some unfavourable wind can get you into a position of being "set up" for a crash in Cat C and D aircraft easily. Here's a great analysis of the LJ35 crash at TEB in conjunction with the - at times - borderline dangerous circling approach. It's a great site altogether, worth spending some time on, btw:

https://code7700.com/kteb_circling_conundrum.htm#gsc.tab=0

That Aloha wasn't doing a circling approach from 35 to 03 because they aren't allowed. He was doing a Visual Approach to 03. Technically it's the same maneuver, but they legally can't do Circling Approaches like that.

MS Win7 Pro x64, Intel i7-6700K 4.0Ghz, Corsair RAM 16Gb,EVGA GeForce GTX 1080 FTW GAMING ACX 3.0, w/ Adjustable RGB LED Graphics Card 08G-P4-6286-KR, Creative Labs SB X-FI Titanium Fatal1ty Champ PCIe Sound Card, Corsair Neutron XTI 1TB SSD, TM Warthog Throttle & Stick, TM TPR Pedels, Oculus Rift VR Headset CV1, Klipsch Promedia 4.1 Speakers...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/22/2022 at 6:00 AM, =475FG= Dawger said:

You do not comprehend what I am telling you.

ATC can issue a clearance to circle at any time.

However, ATC cannot issue specific circling instructions (For example, "Circle Northwest") unless the weather is above ATC minimums for issuing visual approach clearances. (Normally, ceiling at least 500 ft above minimum vectoring altitude and visibility greater than 3 miles)

This has absolutely nothing to do with published circling minimums.

 

 

On 11/22/2022 at 6:00 AM, =475FG= Dawger said:

You do not comprehend what I am telling you.

ATC can issue a clearance to circle at any time.

However, ATC cannot issue specific circling instructions (For example, "Circle Northwest") unless the weather is above ATC minimums for issuing visual approach clearances. (Normally, ceiling at least 500 ft above minimum vectoring altitude and visibility greater than 3 miles)

This has absolutely nothing to do with published circling minimums.

 

"FAAO 7110.65Z

4−8−6. CIRCLING APPROACH

a. Circling approach instructions may only be given for aircraft landing at airports with operational control towers.

b. Include in the approach clearance instructions to circle to the runway in use if landing will be made on a runway other than that aligned with the direction of instrument approach. When the direction of the circling maneuver in relation to the airport/runway is required, state the direction (eight cardinal compass points) and specify a left or right base/downwind leg as appropriate.

PHRASEOLOGY− CIRCLE TO RUNWAY (number),

or

CIRCLE (direction using eight cardinal compass points) OF THE AIRPORT/RUNWAY FOR A LEFT/RIGHT BASE/DOWNWIND TO RUNWAY (number).

NOTE− Where standard instrument approach procedures (SIAPs) authorize circling approaches, they provide a basic minimum of 300 feet of obstacle clearance at the MDA within the circling area considered. The dimensions of these areas, expressed in distances from the runways, vary for the different approach categories of aircraft. In some cases a SIAP may otherwise restrict circling approach maneuvers.

c. Do not issue clearances, such as “extend downwind leg,” which might cause an aircraft to exceed the circling approach area distance from the runways within which required circling approach obstacle clearance is assured."

 

The above quote is straight out of the FAAO 7110.65 That is the whole section on circling approaches. What it says is all there is to it. All visual approaches are covered in chapter 7. This procedure is covered in chapter 4. A Circling Approach is not a Visual Approach. Just because you use your eyes don't make it so. Even doing an ILS Approach you have to see the runway to land. That's why they have minimums also.

All circling approaches are part of an instrument approach procedure and as such have a missed approach procedure if the approach can't be completed. A visual approach is not part of an instrument procedure and as such has no missed approach procedure and is instead handled like an ordinary go-around.


Edited by mytai01

MS Win7 Pro x64, Intel i7-6700K 4.0Ghz, Corsair RAM 16Gb,EVGA GeForce GTX 1080 FTW GAMING ACX 3.0, w/ Adjustable RGB LED Graphics Card 08G-P4-6286-KR, Creative Labs SB X-FI Titanium Fatal1ty Champ PCIe Sound Card, Corsair Neutron XTI 1TB SSD, TM Warthog Throttle & Stick, TM TPR Pedels, Oculus Rift VR Headset CV1, Klipsch Promedia 4.1 Speakers...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, mytai01 said:

That Aloha wasn't doing a circling approach from 35 to 03 because they aren't allowed. He was doing a Visual Approach to 03. Technically it's the same maneuver, but they legally can't do Circling Approaches like that.

Good point!

 

So ein Feuerball, JUNGE!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...