is DCS a Ship Simulator and weapons systems Simulator only ?

[GOZR]

Ok I try my best to like DCS but I find myself more and more disliking flying it..   weather physics are none existent no thermos .. no realistic turbulence  no terrain effects what so ever .. FM physics are mediocre and too over controlled and due to no atmospheric physics .. the axis controls settings to actually set the sensitivity etc are the worse .. clouds are becoming very nice but suffer some major Aa troubles in VR ..  So basically DCS I feel now is becoming a Weapons systems simulator.. and some kind of Boat or ship simulator due to it's physics behaviors.. feels to be at sea not in the air.. I am so tired to wanting to be better but they only work on f18 F16 and drop all physics aspect ...   I sincerely hope the best and finally the team would work on this ultimate major problems #1.. 

 

Ho and ofCourse in VR not forgetting  my head going trough the cockpits..  I am just loosing the wanting to fly in DCS

 

I apology to be open and frank..  no other bad feeling ..  I had to say it.. my rant after 2 decades of flying it.. same problems .. 

 

No need for excuses or people defending the lack of realism .. I know I am right.. but instead please share your thought and be heard.

 

Edited November 19, 2022 by GOZR

[RealDCSpilot]

Someone give this dude a sonic boom close flyby please, he is in need to feel a wake turbulence...

[Hiob]

I agree on the lack of weather/ air physics. I miss that, too. Would probably a performance issue right now.

The criticism of the controls setup I can’t understand. Where‘s the problem in adjusting the sensivity?

[Dragon1-1]

Multiple RL pilots have stated FM physics are, in fact, mostly correct. So you are very much not right on that account. FBW and hydraulic controls do make fighters feel "over-controlled" if you're used to flying a Cessna, but that's just how they are. Try WWII aircraft, they're a lot less smooth.

Yes, weather needs improvement, that much is well known. However, this isn't a glider sim. Thermals and turbulence from weather don't throw jet fighters around nearly as much as they do GA aircraft. Terrain effects we could use, could be a nasty surprise for low level attackers like the Viggen or F-15.

[speed-of-heat]

oh look a social experiment in being ignored...

[Cab]

53 minutes ago, GOZR said:

 .. I know I am right..

 

 

One of the keys to happiness is expectation management. 
 

Personally, I have what I’d consider fairly significant and relevant flying experience and I love DCS. Considering what one can do for the cost of the Hornet module, I don’t know what you expect for $80. 

[fab.13]

2 hours ago, GOZR said:

Ok I try my best to like DCS but I find myself more and more disliking flying it..   weather physics are none existent no thermos .. no realistic turbulence  no terrain effects what so ever .. FM physics are mediocre and too over controlled due to no atmospheric physics .. the axis controls settings to actually set the sensitivity etc are the worse .. clouds are becoming very nice but suffer some major Aa troubles in VR ..  So basically DCS I feel now is becoming a Weapons systems simulator.. and some kind of Boat or ship simulator due to it's physics behaviors.. I am so tired to wanting to be better but they only work on f18 F16 and drop all physics aspect ...   I sincerely hope the best and finally the team would work on this ultimate major problems #1.. 

 

Ho and ofCourse in VR not forgetting  my head going trough the cockpits..  I am just loosing the wanting to fly in DCS

 

I apology to be open and frank..  no other bad feeling ..  I had to say it.. my rant after 2 decades of flying it.. same problems .. 

 

No need for excuses or people defending the lack of realism .. I know I am right.. but instead please share your thought and be heard.

 

 

Hello,

Maybe you should try Mirage F1 ?

Flying this plane could give to you more sensations…( VR if possible )

[dburne]

Holy crap flying carrier ops off the Super Carrier in the Persian Gulf with the Hornet - Bliss!  And my head only goes through my Hornet cockpit if I intentionally try to move it out there. So I don't.

 

[Beirut]

3 hours ago, GOZR said:

Ok I try my best to like DCS but I find myself more and more disliking flying it..   

 

 

Then your path is clear. 

 

All the best. 

[Bremspropeller]

2 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

Thermals and turbulence from weather don't throw jet fighters around nearly as much as they do GA aircraft.

You have no idea, dude.

[Baltic Pirate]

1 hour ago, Bremspropeller said:

You have no idea, dude.

Thats an understatement. Try flying at low level 350 kias plus on a hot summer day. Banging is just amazing. 

[Hawkeye60]

If you ask the Admiral this very question, the answer you will Get is a resounding, YES!
 

Quote

 

"You mean there are aircraft?, and you can fly them? WOW!

I never knew!"

 

 

Edited November 19, 2022 by Hawkeye60

[Northstar98]

5 hours ago, GOZR said:

weather physics

True, but supposedly is WIP - would be good to get some details of what we can expect.

5 hours ago, GOZR said:

are none existent no thermos

Not sure if thermals will be a thing, but who knows.

5 hours ago, GOZR said:

no realistic turbulence

There is.

5 hours ago, GOZR said:

no terrain effects what so ever

See above.

5 hours ago, GOZR said:

FM physics are mediocre and too over controlled due to no atmospheric physics

Disagree, but yes, some higher fidelity and more fleshed out atmospheric physics would be nice.

5 hours ago, GOZR said:

the axis controls settings to actually set the sensitivity etc are the worse

In what way?

5 hours ago, GOZR said:

clouds are becoming very nice but suffer some major Aa troubles in VR

They still bounce around all over the place when making certain camera movements on my end, but hopefully they'll get there.

5 hours ago, GOZR said:

So basically DCS I feel now is becoming a Weapons systems simulator

Well, so long as you only care about player aircraft fired weapons maybe, everything else is fairly low fidelity.

5 hours ago, GOZR said:

and some kind of Boat or ship simulator due to it's physics behaviors

What? DCS is far and away from being any kind of ship simulator - if you think atmospheric physics are bad, I don't know what to tell you about ships - I mean they don't even have AI SFM levels of physics fidelity...

5 hours ago, GOZR said:

I am so tired to wanting to be better but they only work on f18 F16 and drop all physics aspect ...   I sincerely hope the best and finally the team would work on this ultimate major problems #1..

They supposedly have 50% of their team working on the core, though unfortunately it does seem that core stuff takes an absolute age to get through (and even then the most improvements seem to be in graphics).

[Mike_Romeo]

4 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

Thermals and turbulence from weather don't throw jet fighters around nearly as much as they do GA aircraft.

That is not correct. Fighter jets fly much higher where turblences get much stronger too. Also dont forget that from 1980 through 2008, U.S. air carriers had 234 turbulence accidents, resulting in 298 serious injuries and three fatalities and that with big airliners. https://www.faa.gov/travelers/fly_safe/turbulence

Edited November 19, 2022 by Mike_Romeo

[Dragon1-1]

By that, I meant that being heavier, more strongly built and with more powerful engines, they're much less of a concern. Sure, they can bang you around, but does it affect how you're flying the jet? Airliners are not designed to take 9G and can take damage from them. This doesn't generally happen with fighters, and tactical considerations are usually more important than giving the pilot a smooth ride. If you're on autopilot you likely won't even notice a thermal in a fast jet. IMO, as far as impacting tactical operations, terrain effects would be the most important, updrafts and downdrafts in the mountains can ruin your day if you fly a helo or a low level fastmover, particularly the latter as they're quite capable of slamming you into the ground if you don't anticipate them when flying at treetop level.

TBH, the only ones to truly appreciate turbulence would be people with things such as seat shakers and motion platforms. For the others, the ship might jerk around on the screen/in VR and that is. Yes, this kind of thing would be really nice, but there are multiple other things that would affect tactical environment much more, and IMO they should take priority.

[Hiob]

Either way, you should feel the movement of the surrounding air, regardless of caused by winds, thermals or turbulences (and size of aircraft). DCS more often than not feels stale/lifeless in this regard. This doesn’t keep me from having fun with it though.

It is just one of the bigger items on my personal wishlist.

Edited November 19, 2022 by Hiob

[GOZR]

Ok. I will be answering back and try to explain the best I can ..  

[eaglecash867]

7 hours ago, dburne said:

And my head only goes through my Hornet cockpit if I intentionally try to move it out there. So I don't.

 

Me too.  In all of my years of flying in various aircraft, including some fighters, IRL, I can honestly say that I have never once put my head against a window or canopy.  Because of that, I have never done it in VR either.  I think you, me, and several others here have tried to explain on several occasions why having your head stop in the game, while your real head keeps going isn't a good thing to do in VR because of how it would induce motion sickness in most people.  But, I guess some are just determined to focus on things they don't like.

I just enjoy the hell out of DCS and although there are lots of things that could be better, I just avoid focusing on those things.  There really isn't anything currently available that does everything well, and DCS just does well with the things that matter to me.  Heh...not big fan of clear air turbulence anyway after being knocked unconscious by it once because I didn't have my harness cinched down tight enough.   Also kinda hate wind sheer for even worse reasons.

Cab summed everything else up with just a few words about expectation management.  Its kinda what I've been harping on for all these years when it comes to posts that all seem to go "I should be able to do [fill in the blank]."  Well, there's always going to be the sim we want...but this is the one we have, we have to work within the limitations of it and our equipment.

 

[NCurk]

-- irony on

Maybe you should check your settings?

Turn OFF - Game Flight Mode

Turn OFF - Game Avionics Mode

Turn ON - Wake turbulence

Additionally I suggest you buy a Motion Platform at motionsystems.eu and a rig at monster.tech

Some FB gear from Brunner may help, too.

Cheers

[dburne]

2 hours ago, eaglecash867 said:

Me too.  In all of my years of flying in various aircraft, including some fighters, IRL, I can honestly say that I have never once put my head against a window or canopy.  Because of that, I have never done it in VR either.  I think you, me, and several others here have tried to explain on several occasions why having your head stop in the game, while your real head keeps going isn't a good thing to do in VR because of how it would induce motion sickness in most people.  But, I guess some are just determined to focus on things they don't like.

I just enjoy the hell out of DCS and although there are lots of things that could be better, I just avoid focusing on those things.  There really isn't anything currently available that does everything well, and DCS just does well with the things that matter to me.  Heh...not big fan of clear air turbulence anyway after being knocked unconscious by it once because I didn't have my harness cinched down tight enough.   Also kinda hate wind sheer for even worse reasons.

Cab summed everything else up with just a few words about expectation management.  Its kinda what I've been harping on for all these years when it comes to posts that all seem to go "I should be able to do [fill in the blank]."  Well, there's always going to be the sim we want...but this is the one we have, we have to work within the limitations of it and our equipment.

 

 

Fully agree on everything there. I am a single player only guy and absolutely love DCS , it has brought me tons of joy over the last several years.

[GOZR]

Well I answer on this one .. I am very ignorant on aircraft weapons as missiles etc.. so i cannot comment on those but regarding the flights yes,.I flew as well early jets and ww2 aircraft in rl.. in RL you want to place as high as you can and you will hit something.. try MiG15 Yak9 etc.  an helmet is not for crashes .. as well as many others and also a simmer since 2 decades and consulted in earlier ones when I had the time Pre kids.  I also founded some fights competitions vs countries in ww2 sim. Now cheating is present when it is possible .. while flying aircraft have blank spots .. alot. In Vr pilots were wanking the aircraft left to right to see where they were going or in a readiness to attack or be attacked in RL you would be so sick as teh Track IR do.. lol.. no you actually move much more in RL the aircraft feel like concrete this is not your desk that you cannot pull on it  .. when you do have the opportunity .. flying you can if you have no honor look on your six lower your head and see through anything which kills the immersion and kills teh surprised attacks.. i know many of you do not fly that way..  Where do you think now IL2 has a locked cockpit option/? So this is why we need the cockpits to have limits as in RL.. now for those who say that they never touch a corner or a canopy in hard maneuver or quick six check and really moving around .. a lot..definitely where flying on a spacious US aircraft.  to fly  or cruise yes i agree your brain limit your neck axis .. but for example in the DCS fw190 try a hard core dogfight.. is more challenging also almost all view in DCS are not setup for you.. so i do correct all , same as IL2 or FS2020.. but less discuss about this.. I am open to it

 

Regarding what I said about DCS been a ship sim.. lol  well it's because the turbulence are and feel like i am sailing in the Mediterranean... lol not Pacific    feels some weird waves or like a very slow slowwww flying Cessna .. but turbulence that I actually love are really important as in RL .. where pedals are very handy if you dont want the tale to go first ..  going through a chain of mountains.. a valley .. etc.. this is serious and for me a pleasure .. I cannot fly anymore ww2 or early jets in DCS because this Number 1 factor is missing so I do not feel that I am flying.. now for that I go into IL2 which the feeling of flying is far greater.. and now FS2020 with some weird thermos..  take a car with stiff suspensions as ww2 fast aircraft and jets is for flyers .. now take the country side road small tiny road and go fast .. that is what turbulence give you.. a list a simulation of it .. in DCS nope it's smooth as silk .. even if you load the turbulence at MAX..  Boat water style ... it is the worse of all sims.. best long ago it was Condor gliders sim.. 

I do like now the clouds ( beside the vibrating and AA horrible effects ) and different altitudes finally we have after 15 years of bugging them .. a lot of goods are coming .. I hope because I do love it anyway.. 

Yes we need to see what is bad and really bug them.. this is why we have goods coming now.. helloooo !  with respect and knowledge .. Virtual pilots should pause and sometime listen to the ones with some good real experiences ..  Imagine DCS with all possible atmospheric physics .. all aircraft will feel so much real .. all.. all fun..  and cockpit locked in the 3D environment corresponding to their aircraft..  RoF.. IL2 GB I know this so well... we all want the same.. some are much much more weapons electronics oriented and some are flights more  dogfights and shooting 100 miles away..  me now .. i love to take an aircraft well ww2 or early jet for me  and fly around alone or with friends before to turn in for the night  The flight is number one before any weapons...  DCSis awesome and horrible for some primary simulator needs.  now I fly IL2 that gives me this feeling.. not DCS  alas

 

BTW:  flying Props with a good precise engine management with all vibrations to give you feed back are so important and good .. they need "TLC"  also air friction on turns  buffets etc are hugely important and sounds with

As for now you can fly DCS with a keyboard..  no joke.  

This is for VR users .

Edited November 20, 2022 by GOZR

[dburne]

Wellll, if DCS was for everybody then I guess everybody would have it then huh....

Life is too short, have fun in life, do what you enjoy and never sweat the small stuff.

[GOZR]

Just now, dburne said:

Wellll, if DCS was for everybody then I guess everybody would have it then huh....

Life is too short, have fun in life, do what you enjoy and never sweat the small stuff.

We all want the best.. all of us.. but some prefer to move the stick much more often..

[Hiob]

8 hours ago, GOZR said:

We all want the best.. all of us.. but some prefer to move the stick much more often..

Then fly the Mosquito instead of the Hornet.  

 

…or helicopters. 

(take it with a grain of salt, but I‘m serious )

[GOZR]

6 hours ago, Hiob said:

Then fly the Mosquito instead of the Hornet.  

 

…or helicopters. 

(take it with a grain of salt, but I‘m serious )

LoL .. alas the lack of atmospheric physic makes all aircraft sterilized.. boring to fly