DASS

[Cunning_Raven]

I was reading up on the eurofighter and noticed that the DASS is different with nations.

I was curious which one will get. Though I assume it's the german one withoun LWR or a rear MAW.

[Zahnatom]

2 minutes ago, Cunning_Raven said:

I was reading up on the eurofighter and noticed that the DASS is different with nations.

I was curious which one will get. Though I assume it's the german one withoun LWR or a rear MAW.

the laser warning system was only installed on the British and(i think) Saudi ones... dont see why the german one should lack a rear MAW as it clearly has the antenna for it

[Bananabrai]

On 11/19/2022 at 9:32 PM, Zahnatom said:

it clearly has the antenna for it

Not all airframes have it.

So there is two options:
- ED style: The modeled tail number jet XY+ZZ in year 20XY was out of service, we can just watch DCS: Eurofighter in encyclopedia but never fly it on any of the dcs maps -> we don't need it (or this specific recreated serial number didn't have it, we won't have it)
- Cool guys: We get it, as some of the GAF fleet aicraft have it.

[Zahnatom]

On 11/28/2022 at 1:59 PM, Bananabrai said:

Not all airframes have it.

So there is two options:
- ED style: The modeled tail number jet XY+ZZ in year 20XY was out of service, we can just watch DCS: Eurofighter in encyclopedia but never fly it on any of the dcs maps -> we don't need it (or this specific recreated serial number didn't have it, we won't have it)
- Cool guys: We get it, as some of the GAF fleet aicraft have it.

given HB and TG's stance on which "version" they'll introduce, chances are incredibly high that we'll get a full DASS suite. the airframes that lack this rear sensor are probably either training, testing or just old airframes.

personally i think it'd be ridiculous to leave it out....

[MRTX]

The only Eurofighter's ever delivered to the Luftwaffe without the rear MAWS antenna, were early tranche 1 aircraft (about 20 of the 33) Overall don't worry, the vast Majority of German Eurofighter's is equipped with the rear antenna.

And if the 3D model we've seen in the trailer is any indication to go by (regardless of the livery), HB/TG have definitely thought about it at least. (and i simply can not come up with a logical explenation why we shouldn't get it)

[Cunning_Raven]

4 hours ago, MRTX said:

The only Eurofighter's ever delivered to the Luftwaffe without the rear MAWS antenna, were early tranche 1 aircraft (about 20 of the 33) Overall don't worry, the vast Majority of German Eurofighter's is equipped with the rear antenna.

And if the 3D model we've seen in the trailer is any indication to go by (regardless of the livery), HB/TG have definitely thought about it at least. (and i simply can not come up with a logical explenation why we shouldn't get it)

That's nice to hear! I guess the sources I looked at weren't too good. I don't even care about the LWRs, but the rear MAW is pretty important

[MRTX]

Yeah, 360 degree radar coverage is gonna be awesome. Can't wait for some poor mig to think they can try and sneak up on you whilst you already see them from 30nm. 

[MRTX]

One thing which i hope to see implemented with the Eurofighter in DCS is, that it can also use its EW suite not only to interpolate stationary radar sources but also triangulate moving radar sources like aircraft and ships via datalink with a second eurofighter.

[San_A]

Will is be able to detect infrared-guided missiles too? And if yes, how would it work?

[Cunning_Raven]

16 minutes ago, San_A said:

Will is be able to detect infrared-guided missiles too? And if yes, how would it work?

Yeah, that's the point of the MAW. It detects the infared signiture of the missile launch and it warns the pilot, or something like that.

[Zahnatom]

46 minutes ago, San_A said:

Will is be able to detect infrared-guided missiles too? And if yes, how would it work?

so the Eurofighter uses an active kind of MAW. There are 3 antennas around the aircraft(2 on the wings at the front close to the fuselage and one right above the drag chute door which is betwen and above the engines). These antennas are basically radars that, using the doppler shift, detect objects flying towards or away from the aircraft.

These radars are said to use the K_a -band(so 26.5 - 40 GHz) which is a much higher frequency than what the CAPTOR-M is said to use(X-Band, 8-12GHz) meaning that its better at detecting smaller targets(like missiles). However, they are also capable of detecting full size targets like aircraft.

Why use an active MAW?

Well thats rather simple: it can detect a missile even when its motor is no longer burning and the missile has cooled down substantially.

the downside is that its an emmiting radar so its possible to detect these radar waves.

 

With this MAW the Eurofighter can tell the difference between radar guided and IR guided missiles and deploy the correct type of countermeasure.

Edited December 28, 2022 by Zahnatom

[MRTX]

Don't forget the fact that the MAW is so much more than a simple missile approach warning system. Its basically a fully fledged 360 degree AESA LPI radar with all the bells and whistles you'd expect from a normal fire control radar. It can detect fighter sized targets to about 50nm. whilst being undetectable by almost all common RWR systems out there. On top of that it can perform all aspect NCTR, IFF and most importantly weapons guidance. It in theory should also be able to perform A2G functions (although unconfirmed). Now put the worldclass EW suite on top of that, and no matter the target the Eurofighter probably can detect it. 

In the end the DASS is the features that gives the Eurofighter unprecedented situational awareness compared to any other 4th. and 4.5 gen fighter.

[Spectre11]

8 hours ago, MRTX said:

Don't forget the fact that the MAW is so much more than a simple missile approach warning system. Its basically a fully fledged 360 degree AESA LPI radar with all the bells and whistles you'd expect from a normal fire control radar. It can detect fighter sized targets to about 50nm. whilst being undetectable by almost all common RWR systems out there. On top of that it can perform all aspect NCTR, IFF and most importantly weapons guidance. It in theory should also be able to perform A2G functions (although unconfirmed). Now put the worldclass EW suite on top of that, and no matter the target the Eurofighter probably can detect it. 

In the end the DASS is the features that gives the Eurofighter unprecedented situational awareness compared to any other 4th. and 4.5 gen fighter.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but nothing of what you said is true. The MAW is what its name implies, not more not less. Dunno where you chaps get such fantasy super capability attributes for the aircraft's equipment.

[MRTX]

How is any of what i said untrue? All capabilities i've named have in the past have been confirmed by EADS (later Airbus), industry partners who use systems in conjunction with the DASS, or are a given due to NATO standards which have been introduced back in the day.

The ability for weapons guidance throug the MAW has in multiple instances been confirmed by Diehl Defence for their IRIS-T. Detection of aircraft and NCTR has been shown by BAE systems in their presentations for the Striker-1 helmet, in the Eurofighter presentation from EADS for the Norwegian government and in an interview of Panorama Difensa which clearly stated that NCTR was enabled with Block 10 Eurofighter aircraft through the DASS threat library. 

When it comes to the IFF capability, back in 2001 NATO STANAG 4579 was introduced with IFF standardisation for Ka-Band radars, so overall a simple software integration was the only thing nescessary to implement this feature for the MAW. 

[Spectre11]

2 hours ago, MRTX said:

How is any of what i said untrue? All capabilities i've named have in the past have been confirmed by EADS (later Airbus), industry partners who use systems in conjunction with the DASS, or are a given due to NATO standards which have been introduced back in the day.

The ability for weapons guidance throug the MAW has in multiple instances been confirmed by Diehl Defence for their IRIS-T. Detection of aircraft and NCTR has been shown by BAE systems in their presentations for the Striker-1 helmet, in the Eurofighter presentation from EADS for the Norwegian government and in an interview of Panorama Difensa which clearly stated that NCTR was enabled with Block 10 Eurofighter aircraft through the DASS threat library. 

When it comes to the IFF capability, back in 2001 NATO STANAG 4579 was introduced with IFF standardisation for Ka-Band radars, so overall a simple software integration was the only thing nescessary to implement this feature for the MAW. 

1.) I doubt you'll find any official source clearly confirming what you claim. That's more than evident by your poor reasonig that follows with your examples. Ofcourse you are free to interpret statements the way you like, but that doesn't turn them into facts. It's pure speculation on your part here.

Let's take a closer look at your examples.

A) Diehl is the manufacturer and lead designing company for the IRIS-T missile. It's not the manufacturer of Typhoon's DASS or MAWS. The IRIS-T is a multinationally developed missile, used by various different platforms. Diehl states that the IRIS-T seeker can target missiles (fact). That's it! No proof or confirmation that the DASS onboard the Typhoon can provide the relevant targeting information to cue the missile. So plain speculation on your part.

B) BAES presentation on Striker I talking about the detection of aircraft and NCTR by what sensors precisely?

C) Difensa talking about NCTR by DASS, ever though about enabling the sensor fusion part of DASS to feed emitter identity into fused sensor tracks...

D) NATO Standard on IFF implementation with Ka Band radars proves what exactly? You deduce from mm wave band (of which the Ka band is just a fraction) for the MAW and a NATO standard on IFF implementation with Ka band radars is a hard proof for Typhoon MAWS IFF capabilities? What a stretch...

 

[Zahnatom]

does anyone have a video or something with whatever sounds the DASS makes in it? 

[Bananabrai]

On 12/29/2022 at 1:02 PM, MRTX said:

How is any of what i said untrue? All capabilities i've named have in the past have been confirmed by EADS (later Airbus), industry partners who use systems in conjunction with the DASS, or are a given due to NATO standards which have been introduced back in the day.

The ability for weapons guidance throug the MAW has in multiple instances been confirmed by Diehl Defence for their IRIS-T. Detection of aircraft and NCTR has been shown by BAE systems in their presentations for the Striker-1 helmet, in the Eurofighter presentation from EADS for the Norwegian government and in an interview of Panorama Difensa which clearly stated that NCTR was enabled with Block 10 Eurofighter aircraft through the DASS threat library. 

When it comes to the IFF capability, back in 2001 NATO STANAG 4579 was introduced with IFF standardisation for Ka-Band radars, so overall a simple software integration was the only thing nescessary to implement this feature for the MAW. 

I say we will not get such a system. Will not share sources though.

On 5/22/2023 at 9:01 PM, Zahnatom said:

does anyone have a video or something with whatever sounds the DASS makes in it? 

DASS is really sensitive. We will get some sounds and they will work for us.

I can try express it in beep-boop-language if you want^^

[MRTX]

Would be awesome to get some beep-boop-language about the DASS! 

On another note are you by chance a pilot or maintainer at the Luftwaffe?

[Zahnatom]

On 5/24/2023 at 11:32 AM, Bananabrai said:

DASS is really sensitive. We will get some sounds and they will work for us.

i know its sensitive but the sounds?

cant imagine how that would be too sensitive