Is it possible in Scripting to prevent the Pilots spawning on Cats 3&4 on a carrier?

[Elphaba]

I'm writing a Carrier Controller script and during RECOVERY operations I want to prevent pilots from spawning on those two cats as recovering aircraft will be landing. Is this something that can only be done with the 'SERVER SCRIPTING engine' or can this be done with the regular scripting engine?

If so, any advice/suggestions?

[Pikey]

It cannot be managed with any scripting engine. But the only reasons those locations could ever be picked would not be in the normal design of the spawn, typically with no other deck parts blocked, in MP you spawn on the 6 pack. If these are occupied or in use, there's a system of spots that doesn't cover spawning directly onto a cat. In fact, spawning to cat is the same as runway start and not deliberately done in multiplayer, only accessible in single player.

Having said that, you see it happen if something jammed up.

[Elphaba]

13 minutes ago, Pikey said:

It cannot be managed with any scripting engine. But the only reasons those locations could ever be picked would not be in the normal design of the spawn, typically with no other deck parts blocked, in MP you spawn on the 6 pack. If these are occupied or in use, there's a system of spots that doesn't cover spawning directly onto a cat. In fact, spawning to cat is the same as runway start and not deliberately done in multiplayer, only accessible in single player.

Having said that, you see it happen if something jammed up.

That's not quite true, in MP I can specify 'takeoff from runway' and pick the cat I want the player's aircraft to be spawned onto.

 

Just now, Elphaba said:

That's not quite true, in MP I can specify 'takeoff from runway' and pick the cat I want the player's aircraft to be spawned onto.

 

So the only way around this is to never have any aircraft set to take off from cats 3 and 4 as 'takeoff from runway' and then TELL players NOT to use cats 3 and 4? 

That seems a shame. It would be nice if you have flights recovering and launching to force cats 3 & 4 to not allow spawning or allow pilots to use them.

 

[Pikey]

47 minutes ago, Elphaba said:

That's not quite true, in MP I can specify 'takeoff from runway' and pick the cat I want the player's aircraft to be spawned onto.

 

So the only way around this is to never have any aircraft set to take off from cats 3 and 4 as 'takeoff from runway' and then TELL players NOT to use cats 3 and 4? 

That seems a shame. It would be nice if you have flights recovering and launching to force cats 3 & 4 to not allow spawning or allow pilots to use them.

 

You are right! I was wrong, I was thinking of take off from runway (ground based) which exhibits that behaviour as a server.

That doesn't make any difference to your issue though because YOU are setting that configuration (start from runway/start from parking).

I would not expect the issue is as simple as you state though, I've seen all sorts of results when blocking cats and my hunch is (feel free to test) that if you sit on Cats one and two, and start a slot that is set to start from Cat1, it might put it on cat3. The reason for that is that cats are dynamically assigned and the ME scrapped being able to spawn direct to any cat way back during early access.
I don't think there is any scenario you want players spawning directly to catapults. Variations of this topic occur weekly - You must observe the AI for recovery options, they WILL force a deck open wether you think players should be clear to spawn in or not. The issue is not really about cats at all but the fact that the ATC will always allow planes to recover if they are AI or player. At worst they get wavedoff (if you are lucky).

Edited November 27, 2022 by Pikey
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[Elphaba]

On 11/27/2022 at 3:03 PM, Pikey said:

You are right! I was wrong, I was thinking of take off from runway (ground based) which exhibits that behaviour as a server.

That doesn't make any difference to your issue though because YOU are setting that configuration (start from runway/start from parking).

I would not expect the issue is as simple as you state though, I've seen all sorts of results when blocking cats and my hunch is (feel free to test) that if you sit on Cats one and two, and start a slot that is set to start from Cat1, it might put it on cat3. The reason for that is that cats are dynamically assigned and the ME scrapped being able to spawn direct to any cat way back during early access.
I don't think there is any scenario you want players spawning directly to catapults. Variations of this topic occur weekly - You must observe the AI for recovery options, they WILL force a deck open wether you think players should be clear to spawn in or not. The issue is not really about cats at all but the fact that the ATC will always allow planes to recover if they are AI or player. At worst they get wavedoff (if you are lucky).

 

I get all that but I think there is a flaw in ED’s design. You say the ATC system will always recover AI & players as a priority, but that still does not prevent a human player from spawning on the deck and moving to cats 3&4 and getting deck crew to launch them. If the ATC were better coded it should prevent that from happening by disabling cats 3&4 from launching and prevent the deck crew responding to clients/players when recovery ops were in effect. 

a nudge from the air boss to any player entering the landing area would be useful too  

what we have now is a halfway house where anything can go and that’s not good for anyone. 
 

it would be even more flexible if scripting and the ME had control to enable ‘ extend and close these launch and recovery windows manually. 

Edited November 30, 2022 by Elphaba

[Pikey]

9 hours ago, Elphaba said:

I get all that but I think there is a flaw in ED’s design. You say the ATC system will always recover AI & players as a priority, but that still does not prevent a human player from spawning on the deck and moving to cats 3&4 and getting deck crew to launch them. If the ATC were better coded it should prevent that from happening by disabling cats 3&4 from launching and prevent the deck crew responding to clients/players when recovery ops were in effect. 

a nudge from the air boss to any player entering the landing area would be useful too  

what we have now is a halfway house where anything can go and that’s not good for anyone. 
 

it would be even more flexible if scripting and the ME had control to enable ‘ extend and close these launch and recovery windows manually. 

 

 

I don't disagree AI could be better, however, it's irrefutable that you'll get closer to what you need by concentrating on solutions that are actually available to you. Waiting for wishlists is something i do not advocate, i'm still waiting a decade later, for dynamically created player spawning. Let me help your decision-making and solution.

Things are not as simple as "When AI are in recovery stop players spawning, lock up cats and allow them to dictate players play times" Why would enforcing wait times for a cat work better than disallowing spawning hot on a catapult? Both restrict what a player can do for their own convenience. You either allow players to do what they want and work around that or you accept you have the forces of chaos in play and you can only limit the risks.

AI waves off, that was implemented but it doesn't acknowledge players in the pattern. If you care about those things, implement AIRBOSS mod and ask players to follow its instructions as it will seperate AI and player. It doesn't mean they will, of course.

If you want to advocate an AI change where they remain in pattern as your wishlist, then, whilst we would prefer to have AI crash into the sea, all it takes is for a player to sit on the deck twice in a row doing cold starts and a typical fuel load for AI would be expended and they would ditch in the sea. Which means AI are somewhat useless when Players are wanting to have their cake and at the same time, eat it. Your real issue is players not doing what you want, rather than AI who are predictable enough.

The thing I inferred is that the start time of the player cannot be hard set for your scenario. Which follows it's a server that you can enter immediately and have unrestricted take off at any time regardless of what AI are doing. I'm wondering if you even set the wind for the takeoff because if you have a carrier that is always into the wind, its not 24/7. Which also raises other questions on the use case that render the potential solutions as 'out of scope'.

Things you can change that can help

- Limiting cat starts for players will always stop a crash from an aircraft on finals seems to be the most obvious solution
- There is a network block switch to stop a slot being used called slot blocker. It would require heavily edited to be adapted to only get half of your requirement. It cannot stop the dynamic cat allocation, you cannot infer planes departing, you would have to create an incredibly complex layout of moving trigger zones to check in order to deny a player entering a cat and chances are, it will just block people from doing what they want anyway. Arguably pointless because you want hot starts on the cat so time is of the essence.
- implement AIRBOSS scripting mod which will alleviate some of the organization for landing, create recovery windows with the wind which it sounds like you dont have, and provide insights to AI in the pattern via the comms it does.
- Plan recovery windows to coincide with carrier movements and AI flight cycles  in your mission (doesn't work with 24/7 servers and perhaps your use case)
- Leave AI off the player carrier or drop them entirely (moving AI to another carrier is often done but players will still screw up your decks because ... reasons)
- Spawning AI with proximity checks for other planes (there's no API for planes recovering as a query, you cannot tell from the mission environment, only their proximity)
- Implement a scripting solution for recovery windows on demand (helps with the wind and carrier placement)
- Delay the non-cat hot starts by putting no fuel weapons on which makes players be a little more careful as they have enforced waiting
- Having a human coordinate the deck whilst players are involved - (this is done in some squadrons, over the top of ATC)

Things you cannot change easily

- How AI is coded
- How players in a game will behave
- What additional scripted control is available

Take your pick and good luck!