About the F-15C HUD view angle, a question to the experts

[Elunnia]

No issue at all in VR. You can see the hud and all its information displayed. It's a 2D issue I suppose.

[Katmandu]

3 hours ago, Elunnia said:

No issue at all in VR. You can see the hud and all its information displayed. It's a 2D issue I suppose.

Is that from the default seating position or with the virtual head moved back to the headrest (with LCtrl+LShift+Numpad/ )? 

[Deano87]

Yes in VR the F-15C HUD is fine when you put your head in a sensible location - Couple of inches off the headrest.

The problem your having is that your effective FOV through the HUD is much smaller when viewing with only one eye/camera. One must remember that the F-15C HUD is relatively old/basic compared to all the other aircraft your comparing it to, and its MUCH smaller, so has a much smaller eyebox where both eyes have to be to see the whole HUD projection.

When looking through it with two eyes you have significantly more horizontal FOV through the HUD, this just isn't possible on a screen so the default position is moved forward as a compromise to give you more HUD FOV.

[Nahen]

In VR it's OK as long as you don't mess around with moving the point of view away. If you set yourself in a "reasonable place" in the cockpit and don't mess around with any unnecessary adjustments then you always see the HUD of the same size in the same place. As long as you can see the "mirror" of HUD. And it's the same in reality (I base it on the experience with the MiG-21 HUD - basically the HUD "gunsight"), the size does not change, nothing "goes out" of the mirror, etc. The HUD is always in the center of the mirror. In fact, whether you move your head closer or away from the cockpit, you see everything the same.

[Deano87]

2 hours ago, Nahen said:

In VR it's OK as long as you don't mess around with moving the point of view away. If you set yourself in a "reasonable place" in the cockpit and don't mess around with any unnecessary adjustments then you always see the HUD of the same size in the same place. As long as you can see the "mirror" of HUD. And it's the same in reality (I base it on the experience with the MiG-21 HUD - basically the HUD "gunsight"), the size does not change, nothing "goes out" of the mirror, etc. The HUD is always in the center of the mirror. In fact, whether you move your head closer or away from the cockpit, you see everything the same.

I think its obvious what the OP is talking about is the size/shape of the HUD glass, obviously the HUD symbology itself stays the same size no matter what you do with your head position. But the piece of glass that the HUD is reflecting off changes in size depending on your head position, that is the issue here for non-VR users if they put their head in a realistic position. The same thing happens with the A-10 to some degree.

Edited November 30, 2022 by Deano87

[draconus]

7 hours ago, Deano87 said:

that is the issue here for non-VR users if they put their head in a realistic position

Non-issue, simulation starts with correct postion, then @Katmandu moves it back manually, voiding the calibration.

[Nahen]

All must use VR and problem disappere

[Katmandu]

19 hours ago, Deano87 said:

Yes in VR the F-15C HUD is fine when you put your head in a sensible location - Couple of inches off the headrest.

 

16 hours ago, Nahen said:

In VR it's OK as long as you don't mess around with moving the point of view away.

Not as concrete as I would've liked ("in VR, virtual head moved full back, I can/can't see both vertical bars of the HUD together with the speed and alt numbers" would have been clearer), but ok (maybe??  ). Question (sort of) answered - thanks! 

19 hours ago, Deano87 said:

One must remember that the F-15C HUD is relatively old/basic compared to all the other aircraft your comparing it to, and its MUCH smaller, so has a much smaller eyebox where both eyes have to be to see the whole HUD projection.

Good point about the age difference, could be one explaining factor on the difference in design compared to the HUDs of the F-16, Su-27 etc. Although "MUCH smaller HUD" needs a reference. Would be a good second reason for the difference if true

 

7 hours ago, draconus said:

simulation starts with correct postion, then @Katmandu moves it back manually, voiding the calibration.

Needs reference also. No source=no knowledge

[Deano87]

1 hour ago, Katmandu said:

Needs reference also. No source=no knowledge

To be clear, The position of the viewpoint in 2D is "correct" only in as far as it allows you to see all of the HUD. Its not a realistic position for the pilot to put his head, but is a compromise that has to be made for playing on a screen.

You make a choice, you either see all of the HUD and have head in a non-realistic position. Or you move the viewpoint back to a few inches in front of the headrest for a more realistic position and you don't get to see all of the HUD. Pick one.

[Nahen]

There is one more issue - veeeeeery rarely the pilot leans his head against the headrest of the seat.

[draconus]

1 hour ago, Deano87 said:

Its not a realistic position for the pilot to put his head, but is a compromise that has to be made for playing on a screen.

It is the most common position for the pilot. It's not a compromise for anything.

[Deano87]

28 minutes ago, draconus said:

It is the most common position for the pilot. It's not a compromise for anything.

We're going to have to disagree with each other on that one. My default 2D view is at least 6 inches further forward then would normal for a pilots head position, Almost in line with the throttles when the engines are off. I'm not saying head back against the headrest is correct either, but the default 2D view is definitely (at least IMHO) moved forward for improved HUD FOV etc.

[Hiob]

Luckily, we are allowed to adjust the camera in 6+1 degrees of freedom to our individual liking and save any position we come up with as default.