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9 minutes ago, some1 said:

Short question, have you tried SteamVR instead of OpenXR lately? When I checked, I got better performance with 4090 on steamVR, it received some stability and performance improvements no so long ago. 

I tried it a couple of weeks ago but was having some trouble getting it to work, I gave up quite quickly. What are the steps you took to switch back and forth between OpenXR and SteamVR?

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Steamvr has been something of a horror show the times I've tried it recently, 2-3ms slower and not even able to hold reprojection at 45hz, without reprojection is painful in comparison.

I'm surprised you can't keep above 55fps due to CPU limitations or is this in MP where you're at the whim of the server and mission?

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2 hours ago, Ready said:

I tried it a couple of weeks ago but was having some trouble getting it to work, I gave up quite quickly. What are the steps you took to switch back and forth between OpenXR and SteamVR?

I just use OpenComposite runtime switcher. If I press the "switch to OpenComposite" button in that program, it's using OXR. If I start SteamVR after that, it automatically switches back to SVR. 

 

2 hours ago, edmuss said:

Steamvr has been something of a horror show the times I've tried it recently, 2-3ms slower and not even able to hold reprojection at 45hz, without reprojection is painful in comparison.

It's the opposite for me. In the same spot where SteamVR produces 90 fps with a hefty headroom, in OpenXR I barely get 80 fps at noticeably higher GPU usage. That's at the same resolution per-eye (140%) and without any upscaling/FSR, as these work differently in each runtime so they are not really comparable. 

For what it's worth, I have "optimize rendering" option checked in WMR for SteamVR software, and HAGS is disabled in Windows settings, VR really doesn't like it. 

(not my screenshot, ignore other options).

image.png


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I was testing as a vanilla runtime, openvr Vs openxr with no upscaling and it's been consistently worse in steamvr. The reprojection artifacts are still better in steamvr but then it's just not nice using steamvr without it.

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2 hours ago, edmuss said:

Steamvr has been something of a horror show the times I've tried it recently, 2-3ms slower and not even able to hold reprojection at 45hz, without reprojection is painful in comparison.

I'm surprised you can't keep above 55fps due to CPU limitations or is this in MP where you're at the whim of the server and mission?

Yes I mainly play MP.

I fly an A-10C II in VR and post my DCS journey on Is your phone a YouTube Signature Device? - Gizmochina     |   Subscribe to my DCS A-10C channel   

Come check out the 132nd Virtual Wing                                   |   My 4090 VR Performance Optimization  
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On 11/29/2022 at 10:50 PM, Ready said:

OpenXR-Toolkit: Switched Motion Reprojection to automatic. (sometimes my FPS drop too low and then I would like for Reprojection to kick in).
Edit 7-1-2023: Edmuss told me this does not work for DCS. So keep Reprojection OFF.

Excuse me, but should this supposed to be in OpenXR Tools for Windows Mixed Reality?

 

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5 hours ago, VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants said:

Excuse me, but should this supposed to be in OpenXR Tools for Windows Mixed Reality?

 

Clipboard02.jpg

It is a bit confusing I agree. Please see https://mbucchia.github.io/OpenXR-Toolkit/other-features.html#motion-reprojection for a good explanation. 

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Come check out the 132nd Virtual Wing                                   |   My 4090 VR Performance Optimization  
SYSTEM SPECS: Ryzen 7 5800X3D, RTX4090, Varjo Aero, VKB Gunfigher MKIII MCG Ultimate with 10cm extension,VPC MongoosT-50CM3 Throttle, VPC Control Panel #2, TM TPR Rudders. 64GB RAM, W10, Gametrix Jetseat, PointCTRL (currently broken), OpenKneeboard, Wacom Intuos.

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Upgrading to Windows 11 or not?

I am on the fence about upgrading. My current W10 setup is stable and the UI is just how I like it at the moment.

I read mixed messages about upgrading the OS. Probably will stay on W10 unless there will be a clear performance improvement.

I fly an A-10C II in VR and post my DCS journey on Is your phone a YouTube Signature Device? - Gizmochina     |   Subscribe to my DCS A-10C channel   

Come check out the 132nd Virtual Wing                                   |   My 4090 VR Performance Optimization  
SYSTEM SPECS: Ryzen 7 5800X3D, RTX4090, Varjo Aero, VKB Gunfigher MKIII MCG Ultimate with 10cm extension,VPC MongoosT-50CM3 Throttle, VPC Control Panel #2, TM TPR Rudders. 64GB RAM, W10, Gametrix Jetseat, PointCTRL (currently broken), OpenKneeboard, Wacom Intuos.

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From a DCS pov there is no performance advantage in using Windows 11, nor is there any detrimental performance impact, when properly configured for gaming. If you want to move to 11 for other reasons I would recommend an *UPGRADE* in place rather than a fresh install.

The default posture of a fresh install is geared for security rather than performance.

If you do a fresh install, you will need to do all of your existing windows tuning steps, plus:

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/options-to-optimize-gaming-performance-in-windows-11-a255f612-2949-4373-a566-ff6f3f474613

and disable HAGS.

Some things become easier to manage, WMR screens etc...but if it's a pure DCS fps driven decision there is no benefit in doing so.

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51 minutes ago, speed-of-heat said:

From a DCS pov there is no performance advantage in using Windows 11, nor is there any detrimental performance impact, when properly configured for gaming. If you want to move to 11 for other reasons I would recommend an *UPGRADE* in place rather than a fresh install.

The default posture of a fresh install is geared for security rather than performance.

If you do a fresh install, you will need to do all of your existing windows tuning steps, plus:

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/options-to-optimize-gaming-performance-in-windows-11-a255f612-2949-4373-a566-ff6f3f474613

and disable HAGS.

Some things become easier to manage, WMR screens etc...but if it's a pure DCS fps driven decision there is no benefit in doing so.

Okay thank you very much for making it so easy. I will not upgrade then.

I fly an A-10C II in VR and post my DCS journey on Is your phone a YouTube Signature Device? - Gizmochina     |   Subscribe to my DCS A-10C channel   

Come check out the 132nd Virtual Wing                                   |   My 4090 VR Performance Optimization  
SYSTEM SPECS: Ryzen 7 5800X3D, RTX4090, Varjo Aero, VKB Gunfigher MKIII MCG Ultimate with 10cm extension,VPC MongoosT-50CM3 Throttle, VPC Control Panel #2, TM TPR Rudders. 64GB RAM, W10, Gametrix Jetseat, PointCTRL (currently broken), OpenKneeboard, Wacom Intuos.

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5 hours ago, Ready said:

Upgrading to Windows 11 or not?

I am on the fence about upgrading. My current W10 setup is stable and the UI is just how I like it at the moment.

I read mixed messages about upgrading the OS. Probably will stay on W10 unless there will be a clear performance improvement.

I am forced to upgrade to Win11, as some videos point out, there seems to be no difference between the 2.

VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants -- this is how I fly. We do not fly at treetop height, we fly between trees(TM)

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My simple missions: https://forum.dcs.world/topic/284071-vr-flight-guy-in-pj-pants-simple-missions/

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Made a few changes, which give slightly better performance and clarity. 

Thanks @DroptheHammer 

  1. OpenXR Tools for WMR: Change render to 200% 
  2. OpenXR Toolkit: Change FSR Upscaling to 170%

Explanation by @edmussBasically if it takes 13ms to render at 2600 and 16ms to render at 3160, upscaling from 2600 to 3160 costs an overhead of about 0.6ms so you're gaining 2.4ish ms for pretty much the same image. You do have to account for the upscaling overhead but with 4090 can pretty much ignore it.

 

I fly an A-10C II in VR and post my DCS journey on Is your phone a YouTube Signature Device? - Gizmochina     |   Subscribe to my DCS A-10C channel   

Come check out the 132nd Virtual Wing                                   |   My 4090 VR Performance Optimization  
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@Ready have you tried steamVR recently? I was trying openxr with the RTX 4090 and Ryzen 3700X and the performance was good but the image clarity was a bit subpar in my opinion. Most settings in DCS set to high. I changed to steamVR and got much better image clarity and not such a big penalty to performance.

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2 hours ago, Ready said:

Made a few changes, which give slightly better performance and clarity. 

Thanks @DroptheHammer 

  1. OpenXR Tools for WMR: Change render to 200% 
  2. OpenXR Toolkit: Change FSR Upscaling to 170%

Explanation by @edmussBasically if it takes 13ms to render at 2600 and 16ms to render at 3160, upscaling from 2600 to 3160 costs an overhead of about 0.6ms so you're gaining 2.4ish ms for pretty much the same image. You do have to account for the upscaling overhead but with 4090 can pretty much ignore it.

 

Eh, at wmr render of 200% aren't you at 6000 x 6000 per eye?

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4 hours ago, speed-of-heat said:

Eh, at wmr render of 200% aren't you at 6000 x 6000 per eye?

It's about 4800 I think it works out to be, hooray for the resolution not being the resolution and not scaling linearly😁

170% is the same as 59% in openxr toolkit and brings the render resolution back down to around 2600. My 3080ti simply doesn't have the horsepower to run the headset at that level of supersample but it does look good.

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6 hours ago, hallaghan said:

@Ready have you tried steamVR recently? I was trying openxr with the RTX 4090 and Ryzen 3700X and the performance was good but the image clarity was a bit subpar in my opinion. Most settings in DCS set to high. I changed to steamVR and got much better image clarity and not such a big penalty to performance.

See a few postings above

I fly an A-10C II in VR and post my DCS journey on Is your phone a YouTube Signature Device? - Gizmochina     |   Subscribe to my DCS A-10C channel   

Come check out the 132nd Virtual Wing                                   |   My 4090 VR Performance Optimization  
SYSTEM SPECS: Ryzen 7 5800X3D, RTX4090, Varjo Aero, VKB Gunfigher MKIII MCG Ultimate with 10cm extension,VPC MongoosT-50CM3 Throttle, VPC Control Panel #2, TM TPR Rudders. 64GB RAM, W10, Gametrix Jetseat, PointCTRL (currently broken), OpenKneeboard, Wacom Intuos.

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I dont replicate those results... I get much worse aliasing for only marginally better performance

Measurements  Delta  
FPS 1% Low 0.1% Low app CPU(ms) render CPU(ms) GPU (ms) FPS app CPU render CPU GPU Notes
71.80 64.75 58.82 14.00 10.30 13.67 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 OXRT Slider Testing Baseline everything at 100% no FSR 
48.15 44.45 40.46 20.83 11.04 20.45 23.65 -6.83 -0.74 -6.78 OXRT Slider Testing Slider at 200% 
74.38 66.44 59.78 13.51 10.30 12.17 -2.58 0.49 0.00 1.50 OXRT Slider Testing Slider at 200%  & OXRTK FSR 170%

While it is an "raw" performance improvement, it really doesnt offset,enough the graphics quality downgrade, IMO. 

 


Edited by speed-of-heat
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On 1/8/2023 at 6:41 AM, speed-of-heat said:

If you do a fresh install, you will need to do all of your existing windows tuning steps, plus:

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/options-to-optimize-gaming-performance-in-windows-11-a255f612-2949-4373-a566-ff6f3f474613

and disable HAGS.

Some things become easier to manage, WMR screens etc...but if it's a pure DCS fps driven decision there is no benefit in doing so.

From the webpage I find that :

  • Core Memory Isolation does not exist anymore
  • Virtual Machine Platform already turned off

BTW, what is HAGS?

VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants -- this is how I fly. We do not fly at treetop height, we fly between trees(TM)

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My simple missions: https://forum.dcs.world/topic/284071-vr-flight-guy-in-pj-pants-simple-missions/

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Hardware Accelerated GPU Scheduling.  Setting is in display/graphics/change default graphics setting/.  Improvement is very dependant on your particular setup.  No effect on mine. 

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34 minutes ago, WipeUout said:

Hardware Accelerated GPU Scheduling.  Setting is in display/graphics/change default graphics setting/.  Improvement is very dependant on your particular setup.  No effect on mine. 

this what i see with HAGS in Windows 11 and my 4090:

Average Measurements  Delta  
FPS 1% Low 0.1% Low app CPU(ms) render CPU(ms) GPU (ms) FPS app CPU render CPU GPU Notes
72.24 65.47 60.47 13.94 10.32 13.60 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 HAGS Test OFF - Baseline
70.91 63.76 54.71 14.16 10.35 13.99 1.33 -0.22 -0.03 -0.39 HAGS  Test On  Test 1
70.57 64.50 63.05 14.21 10.21 14.09 1.66 -0.27 0.10 -0.49 HAGS  Test On  Test 2

a borderline reduction in pure FPS, but a potential reduction in 0.1% lows .

 

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2 hours ago, WipeUout said:

Hardware Accelerated GPU Scheduling.  Setting is in display/graphics/change default graphics setting/.  Improvement is very dependant on your particular setup.  No effect on mine. 

Should I turn it on or off?

BTW, @speed-of-heat, how do I generate the fps stat?

VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants -- this is how I fly. We do not fly at treetop height, we fly between trees(TM)

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCc9BDi-STaqgWsjNiHbW0fA

My simple missions: https://forum.dcs.world/topic/284071-vr-flight-guy-in-pj-pants-simple-missions/

NSRI - National Strategy Research Institution, a fictional organisation based on wordplay of Strategic Naval Research Institution (SNRI), a fictional institution appears in Mobile Suit Gundam UC timeline.

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17 minutes ago, VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants said:

Should I turn it on or off?

BTW, @speed-of-heat, how do I generate the fps stat?

I have been using mine off however I may have another look soon. I was just checking and see they have now added more stuff in that category like optimizations for windows games.

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1 hour ago, VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants said:

BTW, @speed-of-heat, how do I generate the fps stat?

it's a little complicated:

 

1) you use AHK to generate a script:

Run "C:\Program Files\OpenXR-Toolkit\companion.exe" -record-stats toggle
SoundBeep, 750, 500

  you might need to change your path depending on where OXRTK is installed 

2) and then use AHK to turn the script in to an exe.

3) which i then map to a command on my keyboard, you could also use AHK to map that to a keyboard command , I map it to Function + F, but use whatever key map works best for you

4) then press which ever key you have assigned the macro to to start, you will get a beep

5) and then press again to stop, you will get a beep 

6) a csv file will be created within the C:\Users\xxxxxx\AppData\Local\OpenXR-Toolkit\stats directory, which will have your recorded stats in it (xxxxx being whatever username you use)

 

 

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Thanks big time. Sounds like it is easier than debugger Perl, I will find AutoHotKey and have a go later this week.


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VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants -- this is how I fly. We do not fly at treetop height, we fly between trees(TM)

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCc9BDi-STaqgWsjNiHbW0fA

My simple missions: https://forum.dcs.world/topic/284071-vr-flight-guy-in-pj-pants-simple-missions/

NSRI - National Strategy Research Institution, a fictional organisation based on wordplay of Strategic Naval Research Institution (SNRI), a fictional institution appears in Mobile Suit Gundam UC timeline.

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3 hours ago, VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants said:

Should I turn it on or off?

For me I leave it on but there is no appreciable gain (or loss).  You will have to try with and without and see if you have any gain.

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