Yet another update to DCS 2.8 Open Beta, but what about the stable?

[ac5]

Yesterday,17.12.2022 yet another update to DCS 2.8 Open Beta.

But the last update of the stable version was issued at the beginning of October..

Has ED completely forgotten us, users of the stable version?

[Baldrick33]

The process is to promote Open Beta to Stable as and when it is considered suitably bug free and performing well enough. This will take a variable amount of time depending upon issues encountered.

A major update like 2.7 to 2.8 typically can introduce more aspects to resolve for example VR performance in 2.8. Until these are resolved then it should not be promoted to Stable.

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

Yes, they've absolutely forgotten you. 100% totally forgotten you.

Not because 2.8 has issues to iron out, like the Viper's RWR and VR performance. Nope, you've been forgotten, for sure!

[ac5]

Just don't understand why they post up to 3 open betas before updating the stable.

Wouldn't it be possible to update the stable to the first of those open betas?

And BTW, the stable also has bugs.....

I was really hoping to get the KA-50 3, which I already bought, and test the 2.8 during the Christmas holydays...

[SharpeXB]

I do wish that Stable got more playtime. Multiplayer ends up running OB probably 3/4 of the time. Personally I can’t fathom why so many players run OB especially online where any crash or bugs would be even more painful to endure. I would choose a more stable experience over added features any day. 
It’s great that there are people willing to be beta testers but putting up with continual crashes and bugs would make me nuts. 

Edited December 18, 2022 by SharpeXB

[Art-J]

56 minutes ago, ac5 said:

Just don't understand why they post up to 3 open betas before updating the stable.

Wouldn't it be possible to update the stable to the first of those open betas?

And BTW, the stable also has bugs.....

I was really hoping to get the KA-50 3, which I already bought, and test the 2.8 during the Christmas holydays...

Keep in mind first Open Betas are the most buggy ones, and first build of 2.8 was the worst performance-wise (even for 2D players, let alone VR-ones). I wouldn't encourage any Stable user to go for it unless someone REALLY wanted these useless moving clouds.

Latest build of 2.8 is somewhat better, so I guess they'll push it to stable before New Year even with all bugs in it, but seriously, be careful what you wish for.

[SharpeXB]

19 minutes ago, Art-J said:

Keep in mind first Open Betas are the most buggy ones, and first build of 2.8 was the worst performance-wise (even for 2D players, let alone VR-ones). I wouldn't encourage any Stable user to go for it unless someone REALLY wanted these useless moving clouds.

A performance hit from new features isn’t necessarily a bug. It’s just simple reality, games always become more demanding over time as they get better features. Plus moving clouds and shadows aren’t useless at all. This means that the cloud cover over your target won’t be permanent, it will change. That seems like a very good thing. 

Edited December 18, 2022 by SharpeXB

[rob10]

2 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

It’s great that there are people willing to be beta testers but putting up with continual crashes and bugs would make me nuts.

For me, I'm on OB and I can count on one hand the number of times DCS has crashed on me over the last couple of years (and have fingers left over).  And that would include MP crashes where the problem was server hardware, not DCS.  I guess I'm too easy going, but as much as there can be occasional significant bugs, I have rarely found them to be a big issue to work around.

EDIT: I should note that I fly the F-18 almost exclusively, so I can't speak to experience with other modules.

Edited December 18, 2022 by rob10

[SharpeXB]

7 minutes ago, rob10 said:

For me, I'm on OB and I can count on one hand the number of times DCS has crashed on me over the last couple of years (and have fingers left over).  And that would include MP crashes where the problem was server hardware, not DCS.  I guess I'm too easy going, but as much as there can be occasional significant bugs, I have rarely found them to be a big issue to work around.

EDIT: I should note that I fly the F-18 almost exclusively, so I can't speak to experience with other modules.

Once is one time too many for me. I’ve had way too many game crashes over the years just running Stable. And any crash or problem throws you into a maddening cycle of trouble shooting and bug reporting which isn’t a good use of the limited time I have for gaming. No thanks. Again, it’s great that people are willing to do this but no way for me. 

Edited December 18, 2022 by SharpeXB

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

6 hours ago, ac5 said:

And BTW, the stable also has bugs.....

 

Find me software that doesn't. Open Beta is the one that has the most serious ones.

[Tarambuko]

I've just bought the BlackShark3 upgrade and it doesn't work on the stable branch.
Why would you sell a product which only works on your testing platform ?!?

[Baldrick33]

15 minutes ago, Tarambuko said:

I've just bought the BlackShark3 upgrade and it doesn't work on the stable branch.
Why would you sell a product which only works on your testing platform ?!?

From the DCS World website:

The Open Beta version of Digital Combat Simulator World (DCS World) 2.7 is a free-to-play digital battlefield game and simulation environment. The "release" version will be available shortly after Open Beta testing is complete. The Open Beta is an optional version of DCS World that we use to first test new content and technologies before moving them to our release version.

[ColinM9991]

20 hours ago, ac5 said:

Just don't understand why they post up to 3 open betas before updating the stable.

Wouldn't it be possible to update the stable to the first of those open betas?

And BTW, the stable also has bugs.....

I was really hoping to get the KA-50 3, which I already bought, and test the 2.8 during the Christmas holydays...

Because if they released it to Stable then there would be many more threads complaining about the performance and other issues.

It is surely a well known fact that many modules release in Open Beta first. It has been that way for god knows how long and these threads pop up every single time.

Shouldn't it be a relief that the update has not become Stable yet? It means that ED are actually working on resolving issues introduced with previous patches.

Edited December 19, 2022 by ColinM9991

[Baldrick33]

1 minute ago, ColinM9991 said:

Shouldn't it be a relief that it has not become Stable yet? It means that ED are actually working on resolving issues introduced with previous patches.

Absolutely. It beggars belief to think anyone would want the first beta release of a significant upgrade automatically promoted to Stable. The process is to get it to a point where it is deemed ready to be considered stable, as many iterations of builds that takes.

[SharpeXB]

I have to wonder about the value of an open beta as it likely just floods ED with poorly done bug reports, missing the required info, running mods etc as well as just creating a lot of duplicates. It would seem to me that closed testing with fewer and better reports would be preferable. Plus I’m sure most OB players aren’t acting as testers but merely using this release to get the latest content. 

[Mike_Romeo]

21 hours ago, ac5 said:

Yesterday,17.12.2022 yet another update to DCS 2.8 Open Beta.

But the last update of the stable version was issued at the beginning of October..

Has ED completely forgotten us, users of the stable version?

That stable is getting later updated is nothing unusual. Here a overview of patches and how long Stable and Open beta stayed on the same version number in days during the year.

[Baldrick33]

8 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

I have to wonder about the value of an open beta as it likely just floods ED with poorly done bug reports, missing the required info, running mods etc as well as just creating a lot of duplicates. It would seem to me that closed testing with fewer and better reports would be preferable. Plus I’m sure most OB players aren’t acting as testers but merely using this release to get the latest content. 

I think it is very useful in getting consensus of issues. There is some very good feedback from a relative few whilst many of us (myself included) may not be acting as testers but nonetheless provide valuable albeit infrequent feedback. Even if the initial feedback is vague, the community often chips in with more detailed analysis to help and speed up the process.

Personally I have both Stable and Open Beta installed but almost exclusively run Open Beta. Stable is there "just in case" Open Beta goes bad but I can't remember the last time I reverted to Stable. I have had far more problems with hardware and driver updates than I have had with DCS Open Beta but that maybe just me.

[SharpeXB]

9 minutes ago, Baldrick33 said:

I think it is very useful in getting consensus of issues. There is some very good feedback from a relative few whilst many of us (myself included) may not be acting as testers but nonetheless provide valuable albeit infrequent feedback. Even if the initial feedback is vague, the community often chips in with more detailed analysis to help and speed up the process.

Well I’m sure this is a catch-22 type problem where without the open beta there wouldn’t be enough testers to catch all these things. But poor reports are worse than no reports at all. Like science, this doesn’t require consensus, just one correct report will do. The rest is background noise. Again many of the “reports” don’t have enough info to be useful. 

Edited December 19, 2022 by SharpeXB

[Baldrick33]

2 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

Well I’m sure this is a catch-22 type problem where without the open beta there wouldn’t be enough testers to catch all these things. But poor reports are worse than no reports at all. Like science, this doesn’t require consensus, just one correct report will do. The rest is background noise. Again many of the “reports” don’t have enough info to be useful. 

 

Sometimes issues aren't easily repeatable. They can be the hardest to track down and the easiest to dismiss as a one off due to someone having a rogue PC. They aren't so hard to dismiss if a number of people get it too. 

I have been in both open and closed betas. I think it is just what works for the developer.

[SharpeXB]

10 minutes ago, Baldrick33 said:

Sometimes issues aren't easily repeatable. They can be the hardest to track down and the easiest to dismiss as a one off due to someone having a rogue PC. They aren't so hard to dismiss if a number of people get it too. 

Sure but poor reporting doesn’t make this easier. For example there are so many performance “reports” that lack simple info like settings or system info. That makes these just about useless. 

[Baldrick33]

13 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

Sure but poor reporting doesn’t make this easier. For example there are so many performance “reports” that lack simple info like settings or system info. That makes these just about useless. 

Agreed, though I believe the Open Beta community are pretty good at sorting some of the wheat from the chaff to help focus the issues. Inevitably there will a lot of white noise in an Open Beta group, it just depends how the developers feel they get value from it. I have witnessed other developers melt down when trying to deal with such a wide, diverse (and sometimes hostile) group directly, there are many factors.

[rob10]

7 hours ago, Tarambuko said:

I've just bought the BlackShark3 upgrade and it doesn't work on the stable branch.
Why would you sell a product which only works on your testing platform ?!?

Might I suggest when you're buying a module that you look at the requirements that ED very helpfully puts at the start of the description and even highlight in red so you notice it?  Then you won't buy something you can't use right away.

And the why it goes to open beta branch first is well described in the posts above.

[ac5]

On 12/19/2022 at 2:53 PM, Mike_Romeo said:

That stable is getting later updated is nothing unusual. Here a overview of patches and how long Stable and Open beta stayed on the same version number in days during the year.

Exactly my point. In red there are no more than 40 days listed. But we have not had a stable update since the beginning of October. .... 

That makes what... Nearly 90 days?...!

[Maverick87Shaka]

if ED release the current OB to stable, you'll complain about stability, as many other has told you, this current 2.8.1.34437 OB is far away to be a "stable RC".
If you want fly the new KA-50 III, update or install the OpenBeta.

When an OpenBeta build will be ready, it will be promoted to Stable. There is not a fixed amount of days to do that, and make pressure for a release it's only getting things worst, and you can have a stable that is really unstable, so why don't download openbeta?

Fly Safe, and on OpenBeta


 

[ac5]

22 hours ago, Maverick87Shaka said:

if ED release the current OB to stable, you'll complain about stability, as many other has told you, this current 2.8.1.34437 OB is far away to be a "stable RC".
If you want fly the new KA-50 III, update or install the OpenBeta.

When an OpenBeta build will be ready, it will be promoted to Stable. There is not a fixed amount of days to do that, and make pressure for a release it's only getting things worst, and you can have a stable that is really unstable, so why don't download openbeta?

Fly Safe, and on OpenBeta


 

It may well be that " this current 2.8.1.34437 OB is far away to be a "stable RC" but.. what about the one before that? and the one before? 

Why don't download openbeta? Well, I fear it will make a mess with my settings.