Hawk_UK Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 Can I suggest an adjustment to the DCS Module Trail period format?? I downloaded my first trial module, the AH-64D Apache a few days ago, however I have not yet had the time to try and learn to fly it and yet my trial period is counting down the days past even though I haven't run the module for more than an hour as yet.... Would it be possible to integrate the time the module is run to the time period of the trial rather than real world-time hours and days... in other words instead of 14 real world days, rather have it so that the module can be used for a time period of 14 days runtime module use? I hope I've expressed and explained that well enough to be understood? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Kazansky Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 I regret to be the rain on your parade, but If ED did that, I would have at least 5 modules still in trial period that I've bought years ago. I'm not asked but in my opinion what ED does is fair and more than any other company does in flight sims. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk_UK Posted January 8, 2023 Author Share Posted January 8, 2023 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Tom Kazansky said: I regret to be the rain on your parade, but If ED did that, I would have at least 5 modules still in trial period that I've bought years ago. I'm not asked but in my opinion what ED does is fair and more than any other company does in flight sims. I'd suggest you are missing the point of me suggesting this, totally.... It doesn't matter how many modules you personally "Would" think you would have installed all in trial period, the fact would be that all in all you would only be able to use each one for a period of 14 days max, so what's the difference except that being able to actually learn the module for an actual time period of 14 days runtime will give people the chance to learn to actually fly and operate the basics so that they will begin to seriously enjoy the module and therefore more likely to buy it..... As it is, there will be those that have the time to dedicate the current 14 day real time to learning to fly, enjoy and subsequently buy the module, but also those like myself who would like to be able to learn to fly the basics and begin to enjoy the module so that I end up buying it BUT due to life priorities I simply haven't the time to dedicate over the 14 days real time to get to that stage where I would want to buy it after enjoying it so much over a 14 day actual runtime period..... I just think a 14 day runtime trial would be so much more potential customer friendly than the current real time 14 day trial which for busy people can be over in a flash before they've even had any chance to really get into the module itself. 14 days is 14 days whether it's real time or runtime, just that one, the runtime trial format, allows a true 14 days to get into the basics and start to enjoy the module, the other due to life's priorities can be over in what seems like a day or two with no chance of getting to the stage of enjoying the module enough to want to buy it... I know which one sounds logical to me if I wanted to further encourage people to buy DCS Modules. PS: Btw, Tom.... I'm simply suggesting an improvement on the current trial period format.... it's not any criticism at all on the current generous trial period, simply an adjustment to make it better in my opinion for those who cannot spend 18 hours a day playing DCS and are not wealthy enough for $80 for a DCS module to be considered short-change. Edited January 8, 2023 by Hawk_UK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Kazansky Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 I try to put it easier: I take a module in trial and use it like those "5 modules" from above. So ED should take those away from me in 3 years without earning 1 single buck? Good luck. It's just a guess but I think the trial period is not for learning modules but for getting a feeling about them. The only reason ED gifts us with 14 days and not just 2 hours like Steam does imho is that a lot of modules that I hated the for the first 2 days I learned to love some days later. But don't get me wrong, I could easily live with it if ED followed your proposal. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk_UK Posted January 8, 2023 Author Share Posted January 8, 2023 2 minutes ago, Tom Kazansky said: I try to put it easier: I take a module in trial and use it like those "5 modules" from above. So ED should take those away from me in 3 years without earning 1 single buck? Good luck. It's just a guess but I think the trial period is not for learning modules but for getting a feeling about them. The only reason ED gifts us with 14 days and not just 2 hours like Steam does imho is that a lot of modules that I hated the for the first 2 days I learned to love some days later. But don't get me wrong, I could easily live with it if ED followed your proposal. Don't you understand: It doesn't matter how long you have a trail installed, the fact is that you personally can only use those trials for 14 days at most.... so if you want to spread that 14 day trial over 3 years then good luck to you, but I cannot see you getting much enjoyment never mind learning how to use the plane module with any proficiency if you're wanting to spread a learning or getting to know you trial period of 14 days over a period of years.... that simply doesn't make any sense at all, just simply sounds like an excuse from someone who doesn't like the idea for whatever real reason you have for not liking the suggestion? It's alright saying: "don't get me wrong", and that you could live with it if ED followed my suggestion, but if we get many negative people like yourself poo pooing the idea for no good reason then ED is less likely to follow the suggestion and you know it..... let's have some positivity if you really "could easily live with it", eh Tom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Kazansky Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 I love your idea. I could have saved a lot money with not buying modules but just try them for 336 hours and give them back. You convinced me to support it. Positive enough now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAXsenna Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 I think you have a valid point. But 14x24=336 hours will not be fair to those of us that actually have bought the module.I have every module, and I'm not rich. Many modules I have bought just to support ED and the 3rd parties. So you can imagine that I've not spent 336 hours in the majority of the modules. In the first free to play I tried out the C-101. I immediately fell in love and bought it. Like Tom wrote, free to play ain't for learning a module. You should really plan ahead.Now reduce the 336 hours to 10, and I'm with you.Cheers! Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk_UK Posted January 8, 2023 Author Share Posted January 8, 2023 25 minutes ago, Tom Kazansky said: I love your idea. I could have saved a lot money with not buying modules but just try them for 336 hours and give them back. You convinced me to support it. Positive enough now? After the third time of trying to explain the difference between runtime and real time - You seriously don't understand, do you - that you cannot "Try" or run the modules for 336 hours as you're suggesting, at all.... Just how on earth did you come to that conclusion, Tom? How much simpler can I put this: 14 days is 14 days no matter how long you have the trial is installed if it was operated under a runtime format.... you cannot convert 14 days runtime into 336 days runtime, as you are suggesting, in any shape or form whatsoever, so just where did you get your 336 days of trial module runtime from Tom.... please explain this to me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Kazansky Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 1 hour ago, Hawk_UK said: Would it be possible to integrate the time the module is run to the time period of the trial rather than real world-time hours and days... . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAXsenna Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 After the third time of trying to explain the difference between runtime and real time - You seriously don't understand, do you - that you cannot "Try" or run the modules for 336 hours as you're suggesting, at all.... Just how on earth did you come to that conclusion, Tom? How much simpler can I put this: 14 days is 14 days no matter how long you have the trial is installed if it was operated under a runtime format.... you cannot convert 14 days runtime into 336 days runtime, as you are suggesting, in any shape or form whatsoever, so just where did you get your 336 days of trial module runtime from Tom.... please explain this to me! Ah! So what you mean, is that if you use a module one day, that counts as one day?Okay, that's actually a good idea.Cheers! Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk_UK Posted January 8, 2023 Author Share Posted January 8, 2023 1 minute ago, MAXsenna said: I think you have a valid point. But 14x24=336 hours will not be fair to those of us that actually have bought the module. I have every module, and I'm not rich. Many modules I have bought just to support ED and the 3rd parties. So you can imagine that I've not spent 336 hours in the majority of the modules. In the first free to play I tried out the C-101. I immediately fell in love and bought it. Like Tom wrote, free to play ain't for learning a module. You should really plan ahead. Now reduce the 336 hours to 10, and I'm with you. Cheers! Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk Jeez... another one who apparently cannot grasp the fact that 14 real world days is no different than 14 days runtime.... in the time that you possibly get to actually run the trial module.... The first happens in real world time so every second that passes even if you are not running the trial module eats into the 14 day trial.... whereas a 14 day runtime trial gives you a true 14 day trial period that is only run-down when you actually run the trial module..... Just why this would have you two thinking that is unfair on those that have already bought the module eludes me totally.... why would you think that? People on the trial will still only be getting a possible 14 day trial usage from any module on trail, so what's the difference other than it could be installed on their PC not being used for longer... don't you understand that it makes no difference that what is current in that sense? 4 minutes ago, MAXsenna said: Ah! So what you mean, is that if you use a module one day, that counts as one day? Okay, that's actually a good idea. Cheers! Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk Yes indeed, that is what I'm saying...... I'm glad you now understand what I'm suggesting..... sorry and apologies for my last post to you made in reply to your first post not your second post here.... my apologies mate...... Glad you now understand what I'm trying to suggest to the community here..... probably my bad attempt to express what I'm trying to say. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAXsenna Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 Yes indeed, that is what I'm saying...... I'm glad you now understand what I'm suggesting..... sorry and apologies for my last post to you made in reply to your first post not your second post here.... my apologies mate...... Glad you now understand what I'm trying to suggest to the community here..... probably my bad attempt to express what I'm trying to say.No worries! I guess the "14 days runtime" fooled us! Cheers! Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kang Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 Hm, I see what you are saying, but I also believe that the trial system, the way it works now, is a pretty fair deal. I can certainly relate to your frustration with it. You downloaded a module you wanted to try, and incidentally went with one that - at least in my opinion - does require a bit of time to get into, and your schedules changed for whatever reason and now you don't really get to try it out. In a similar vein I have not tried out modules for a long time because I always felt I needed to 'wait for a good week so I can make the most of it', but eventually figured that perfect time just never happens anyway. I take solace in the fact that I can actually re-try the same module in a few months time for a second go. Having the trial system in place is a real improvement to the community, I feel, because each individual module is comparatively expensive and just being able to try them and see how much I enjoy them is decidedly something to help me decide for one, especially when I am interested in two somewhat similar modules and can't make up my mind which one I really want. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SharpeXB Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 4 hours ago, Hawk_UK said: and are not wealthy enough for $80 An $80 module is not expensive. Many games today can cost between $60-$70 or more. The trial period isn’t so you can just joyride the game, it’s merely to give you an introduction or to test whether it runs well on you system etc. If you like it, buy it. 5 i9-14900KS | ASUS ROG MAXIMUS Z790 HERO | 64GB DDR5 5600MHz | iCUE H150i Liquid CPU Cooler | ASUS TUF GeForce RTX 4090 OC | Windows 11 Home | 2TB Samsung 980 PRO NVMe | Corsair RM1000x | LG 48GQ900-B 4K OLED Monitor | CH Fighterstick | Ch Pro Throttle | CH Pro Pedals | TrackIR 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mars Exulte Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 18 hours ago, Hawk_UK said: I'd suggest you are missing the point of me suggesting this, totally.... It doesn't matter how many modules you personally "Would" think you would have installed all in trial period, the fact would be that all in all you would only be able to use each one for a period of 14 days max, so what's the difference except that being able to actually learn the module for an actual time period of 14 days runtime will give people the chance to learn to actually fly and operate the basics so that they will begin to seriously enjoy the module and therefore more likely to buy it..... As it is, there will be those that have the time to dedicate the current 14 day real time to learning to fly, enjoy and subsequently buy the module, but also those like myself who would like to be able to learn to fly the basics and begin to enjoy the module so that I end up buying it BUT due to life priorities I simply haven't the time to dedicate over the 14 days real time to get to that stage where I would want to buy it after enjoying it so much over a 14 day actual runtime period..... I just think a 14 day runtime trial would be so much more potential customer friendly than the current real time 14 day trial which for busy people can be over in a flash before they've even had any chance to really get into the module itself. 14 days is 14 days whether it's real time or runtime, just that one, the runtime trial format, allows a true 14 days to get into the basics and start to enjoy the module, the other due to life's priorities can be over in what seems like a day or two with no chance of getting to the stage of enjoying the module enough to want to buy it... I know which one sounds logical to me if I wanted to further encourage people to buy DCS Modules. PS: Btw, Tom.... I'm simply suggesting an improvement on the current trial period format.... it's not any criticism at all on the current generous trial period, simply an adjustment to make it better in my opinion for those who cannot spend 18 hours a day playing DCS and are not wealthy enough for $80 for a DCS module to be considered short-change. Because the point is not for you to have enough time to ''learn'' it. It's to see if it's something you're interested in investing in to learn. It's a demo. You remember how demos used to be? Like ''first three levels'' or ''two hours or the end whichever is first''? It's that kind of demo. Jesus. Give people something free and they complain it's not free ENOUGH @@ 4 Де вороги, знайдуться козаки їх перемогти. 5800x3d * 3090 * 64gb * Reverb G2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon1-1 Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 (edited) 13 hours ago, SharpeXB said: An $80 module is not expensive. For people not in US or Eurozone, it very much is expensive. Part of the reason I'm on Steam is that its pricing is slightly more fair when converted to my currency (although it takes it some time to do it, I had lately been screwed out of early discounts that way). Even then, I hunt for discounts because I'm getting screwed over currency exchange. Imagine if modules, instead of costing 80$, costed 300$, and you'll come close to understanding how people in less wealthy countries feel. I'm suffering from twice the inflation that Euro is undergoing, so this disparity is only going to get worse. ED should look into adjusting its pricing in other currencies and maybe allowing its store to accept them, as to reflect the actual purchasing power and not straight conversion from USD. Edited January 9, 2023 by Dragon1-1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draconus Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 19 hours ago, Hawk_UK said: I hope I've expressed and explained that well enough to be understood? It was super clear until you started to negate any logic deducted from your OP. No, I don't like this wish, because it'd simply take the dev of my fav game out of business. 4 Win10 i7-10700KF 32GB RTX4070S Rift S T16000M VPC CDT-VMAX TFRP FC3 F-14A/B F-15E CA SC NTTR PG Syria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SharpeXB Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 4 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said: ED should look into adjusting its pricing in other currencies Well that’s a separate issue. But $80 is not “expensive” otherwise. It’s in line with what other games cost. And DCS does have sales. 1 i9-14900KS | ASUS ROG MAXIMUS Z790 HERO | 64GB DDR5 5600MHz | iCUE H150i Liquid CPU Cooler | ASUS TUF GeForce RTX 4090 OC | Windows 11 Home | 2TB Samsung 980 PRO NVMe | Corsair RM1000x | LG 48GQ900-B 4K OLED Monitor | CH Fighterstick | Ch Pro Throttle | CH Pro Pedals | TrackIR 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SharpeXB Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 23 hours ago, Hawk_UK said: in other words instead of 14 real world days, rather have it so that the module can be used for a time period of 14 days runtime module use? If you did the math you realize you’re asking for 336 hours? I don’t think I have that many hours in modules I’ve owned for years. Effectively that would mean no reason to actually purchase the product. 2 i9-14900KS | ASUS ROG MAXIMUS Z790 HERO | 64GB DDR5 5600MHz | iCUE H150i Liquid CPU Cooler | ASUS TUF GeForce RTX 4090 OC | Windows 11 Home | 2TB Samsung 980 PRO NVMe | Corsair RM1000x | LG 48GQ900-B 4K OLED Monitor | CH Fighterstick | Ch Pro Throttle | CH Pro Pedals | TrackIR 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirrah Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 (edited) 21 minutes ago, SharpeXB said: If you did the math you realize you’re asking for 336 hours? I don’t think I have that many hours in modules I’ve owned for years. Effectively that would mean no reason to actually purchase the product. It seems that what @Hawk_UK meant to suggest, is that every time you use the trial module (even if only for 5 minutes), that counts as 1 day of use. His use of the term "runtime" is quite confusing here imho. I had to read his posts several times to understand what he meant (but perhaps me not being native English didn't help with that) Fwiw: Personally I don't think ED needs to do anything. I mean, 14 days of trial for each module every 6 months?! That's already extremely generous if you ask me. Can't recall I've ever seen any game developer do that. If I were ED, I'd probably half the trial period, but they probably know what they're doing Edited January 9, 2023 by sirrah typo 1 System specs: i7-8700K @stock speed - GTX 1080TI @ stock speed - AsRock Extreme4 Z370 - 32GB DDR4 @3GHz- 500GB SSD - 2TB nvme - 650W PSU HP Reverb G1 v2 - Saitek Pro pedals - TM Warthog HOTAS - TM F/A-18 Grip - TM Cougar HOTAS (NN-Dan mod) & (throttle standalone mod) - VIRPIL VPC Rotor TCS Plus with ALPHA-L grip - Pointctrl & aux banks <-- must have for VR users!! - Andre's SimShaker Jetpad - Fully adjustable DIY playseat - VA+VAICOM - Realsimulator FSSB-R3 ~ That nuke might not have been the best of ideas, Sir... the enemy is furious ~ GUMMBAH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SharpeXB Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 1 minute ago, sirrah said: It seems that what @Hawk_UK meant to suggest, is that every time you use the trial module (even if only for 5 minutes), that counts as 1 day of use. I would hope so. In any case the suggestion seems a bit farfetched. i9-14900KS | ASUS ROG MAXIMUS Z790 HERO | 64GB DDR5 5600MHz | iCUE H150i Liquid CPU Cooler | ASUS TUF GeForce RTX 4090 OC | Windows 11 Home | 2TB Samsung 980 PRO NVMe | Corsair RM1000x | LG 48GQ900-B 4K OLED Monitor | CH Fighterstick | Ch Pro Throttle | CH Pro Pedals | TrackIR 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon1-1 Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 Basically, what he's asking that every day you actually fly the module decrements the counter. Not necessarily every time (because if the sim crashes after 5 minutes, you shouldn't get dinged for a day again), but DCS is perfectly capable of knowing whether it was ran and what was flown on a given day. This would be particularly nice for those who can only fly on weekends. For them, 14 days collapses to just four at best. Enough to do the training missions, assuming you do a lot of ground school, but not really to get a feel for the aircraft. 59 minutes ago, SharpeXB said: Well that’s a separate issue. But $80 is not “expensive” otherwise. It’s in line with what other games cost. And DCS does have sales. It's not a separate issue. It's not in line with what other games cost anywhere but US, UK and Eurozone, because ED store only sells in USD, last time I checked. Yes, there are sales and stuff, but don't go around saying $80 is "cheap". It's not, even in some places in the US (read: most places outside California and New York) it's serious money. In fact, most places in the world get screwed over even worse than where I live. That you can afford to spend that much without worrying about it doesn't mean everyone can. It's not unaffordable, but it's by no means cheap, and even on a 20% sale (for many modules, that's as low as they go, and you never get more than 50% off, unlike most other games, which routinely hit 75% on Steam after a year or so), DCS modules are on the expensive side. Concerns about pricing are perfectly valid, particularly for people in countries with a weak currency. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draconus Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Dragon1-1 said: Concerns about pricing are perfectly valid, particularly for people in countries with a weak currency. You either can afford it or not - nothing to discuss about. I don't go bashing Porsche for their car prices. There are other cheaper modules, for even as low as $7 on sale (I started with 5$ F-15C years ago). There is the free trial program. And finally there are 2 maps and 2 modules for free with unlimited time and unlimited options. Edited January 9, 2023 by draconus 1 Win10 i7-10700KF 32GB RTX4070S Rift S T16000M VPC CDT-VMAX TFRP FC3 F-14A/B F-15E CA SC NTTR PG Syria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SharpeXB Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 16 minutes ago, Dragon1-1 said: Basically, what he's asking that every day you actually fly the module decrements the counter. What the OP is asking for is ridiculous. The purpose of the trial period is exactly that. A trial. A period to try out the module to see whether you like it or not or whether it runs well etc. You can decide this within a few hours, you don’t need weeks. What ED offers is quite generous. Most games just allow a 24-hour refund period if even that. 22 minutes ago, Dragon1-1 said: but don't go around saying $80 is "cheap". It is actually. Now $80 is expensive for a cup of coffee. But not a PC game, again when taking about US$ this price range is fairly normal. The issue of currency exchange and worldwide pricing is a bit off topic. 2 i9-14900KS | ASUS ROG MAXIMUS Z790 HERO | 64GB DDR5 5600MHz | iCUE H150i Liquid CPU Cooler | ASUS TUF GeForce RTX 4090 OC | Windows 11 Home | 2TB Samsung 980 PRO NVMe | Corsair RM1000x | LG 48GQ900-B 4K OLED Monitor | CH Fighterstick | Ch Pro Throttle | CH Pro Pedals | TrackIR 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon1-1 Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 No, what he's asking is that it doesn't count days on which you're not flying. Perfectly reasonable, IMO, and given the expense of DCS modules, it's vital to get to know the aircraft before you buy it. Few hours is not enough. It was poorly worded, but as it happens, not everyone is a native English speaker, and many native speakers don't know how to express themselves, either. He's since clarified that the way you understood it is not the way he meant it. TBH, tracking actual flying time would likely be a better way of doing that, of course you wouldn't get 14 days then, just an appropriate number of hours. Either way, the point is to make it work in a way that doesn't discriminate against people who can't fly every day. FYI, I don't consider the default return policy of software sellers to be particularly fair, either. If "everyone else does it that way" was a valid argument, you could justify a whole lot of anti-customer practices that companies engage in. ED is better than most other companies, but it's really not a high bar. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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