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Pre-order, 17th of February’23


YoYo

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18 minutes ago, Foogle said:

My advice is to move to standalone, because you can bring any steam purchased modules over to the standalone client, which gives you 2 stores to buy from.

I have 75 DCS modules on Steam (including all RAZBAM's), Steam has its own advantages and I could probably consider moving for a good reason but cash grab isn't one. ED even had the audacity to post release page on Steam linking to... ED shop, it's easier for me to ignore this (and RAZBAM's future ones because of middle finger) modules. There are plenty of other modules coming to DCS and MSFS to keep me busy.

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9 minutes ago, elewarr said:

I have 75 DCS modules on Steam (including all RAZBAM's), Steam has its own advantages and I could probably consider moving for a good reason but cash grab isn't one. ED even had the audacity to post release page on Steam linking to... ED shop, it's easier for me to ignore this (and RAZBAM's future ones because of middle finger) modules. There are plenty of other modules coming to DCS and MSFS to keep me busy.

RAZBAM refusing to sell you a module at a loss is now a cash grab and a middle finger. 

Sorry bud, but that's hilarious. 

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1 minute ago, Foogle said:

Sorry bud, but that's hilarious. 

Refusal? What refusal? As I wrote earlier no one is forcing anyone. I just had different expectations with all the fuss on Steam.

And, no worries, lI'm not gonna buy, so RAZBAM isn't going to lose any money. 😉

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12 minutes ago, shaneduce said:

Soon...

Soon means period to few months:

image.png


Edited by YoYo

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5 minutes ago, shaneduce said:

or year's... I'll just keep waitting

 

No, no kidding 😉 I think it will be April (unfortunately), around of Easter, I'm rather surprised that it will be earlier but I hope I'm wrong! 

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21 minutes ago, Foogle said:

RAZBAM refusing to sell you a module at a loss is now a cash grab and a middle finger.

It´s not like they are producing cars where each unit has its own production costs that have to be considered. They are only selling a copy of their product, so how can they make a loss with that? In theory, they could sell each copy for 1$, as long as they sell enough of them they will earn money. Plain and simple with software.


Edited by VpR81
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18 minutes ago, YoYo said:

No, no kidding 😉 I think it will be April (unfortunately), around of Easter, I'm rather surprised that it will be earlier but I hope I'm wrong! 

Now they have our money I'm willing to wait. I just want the Mod. in as fully and, bug free as possable. 

Sadly i fear people will start bitching that it not out yet and they got to wait longer.

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7 minutes ago, Steel Jaw said:

Unless I’m mistaken this is really only going to be effective with humans as pilot and wso.

More effective? Yes.

Effective? No.

Everything with regards to operations can be done in the front seat (only a couple of switches must be turned on in the back seat).

What a good human WSO will do is multiply the SA, decrease the chances of loosing it, split A2A vs A2G tasks, allow for NoE flying while targeting and interpreting the patch maps.

But at the end of the day in DCS, it should be perfectly functional without a human WSO.

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31 minutes ago, VpR81 said:

It´s not like they are producing cars where each unit has its own production costs that have to be considered. They are only selling a copy of their product, so how can they make a loss with that? In theory, they could sell each copy for 1$, as long as they sell enough of them they will earn money. Plain and simple with software.

 

Sure... if you count all labour and research costs as free, and ignore the 1000's of man-hours that go into design, research, testing, and everything else, then ya, it could be sold for a dollar without a loss... however, that's not the world we live in.

They likely already have a pretty good idea of how many ppl are likely to buy the module, based on how many ppl play the game, and how many have bought recent previous modules etc, so, it's not about selling for as little as possible,  it's more about selling at a price that is commensurate with the other modules of similar quality, and if they can do that AND make money, everyone wins. 

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I'm not updating this anymore. It's safe to assume I have all the stuff, and the stuff for the stuff too. 🙂

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1 hour ago, elewarr said:

I have 75 DCS modules on Steam (including all RAZBAM's), Steam has its own advantages and I could probably consider moving for a good reason but cash grab isn't one. ED even had the audacity to post release page on Steam linking to... ED shop, it's easier for me to ignore this (and RAZBAM's future ones because of middle finger) modules. There are plenty of other modules coming to DCS and MSFS to keep me busy.

Pfft...

The combat flight sim industry (currently AKA "Eagle Dynamics and their partners") needs the money.  You don't understand the assignment.

 

The assignment is that we, as combat flight sim enthusiasts...  are "very" rare.  This means that the people who pour their blood sweat and tears (for years) into making high fidelity sim planes for us ACTUALLY need every penny we can give them.  This isn't EA we're dealing with here and this "cash grab" you speak of goes to put food on kids tables and presents under trees for sure...  but also in return provides us with THE ONLY source we have to enjoy our hobby.  The only one.  This is a two way street here sir.  We give them our money and they provide superb recreations of our favorite aircraft to eff around with.  Cash grab my ass.  I would agree with you 100% if we were talking about some EA style company that has share holders and executives that pull down multi-million dollar bonuses...  But that aint it.

 

I've been around for a while (feel free to throw out the boomer BS if you like) and what actually happens when we as hobbyist consumers in THIS specific space adopt YOUR mind set...  is that we all lose.  It makes the developer unable to put food on their tables while putting combat aircraft on our tables and then we have "old" sims like that 4.0 sim to play with.  I've seen this happen MORE THAN ONCE in my life time.  They're scratching our backs...  Feel free to scratch theirs.

I know...  I know...  "they chose to put it on steam and blah blah blah..."  Yeah...  so they could get more customers.  It's an investment in the future of combat flight siming.  Please step over to the side where we're all (including the devs) a community with equal responsibility to keep it running.

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54 minutes ago, VpR81 said:

It´s not like they are producing cars where each unit has its own production costs that have to be considered. They are only selling a copy of their product, so how can they make a loss with that? In theory, they could sell each copy for 1$, as long as they sell enough of them they will earn money. Plain and simple with software.

 

The cost of developing a module is not small, and ED has numbers of how many copies of all modules are sold, and through that they can approximate how many will sell; so they can figure out how much the module should sell for to break even. If the Steam cut puts them below that threshold, then it's not financially reasonable to sell on that platform. 

 

That and, they already said when the module releases into EA, they will put it on steam with the standard 20% early access discount. So that breakpoint is somewhere between 49% (I messed up my earlier napkin math) and 56% of the retail price. 

 

The flight sim market is niche; no matter which way you cut it, there are only a finite number of people who will buy it. Selling at 1$ will never cover the cost to make the module. 

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1 hour ago, Foogle said:

RAZBAM refusing to sell you a module at a loss is now a cash grab and a middle finger. 

Sorry bud, but that's hilarious. 

Well, yes and no. It is hilarious that RB wants to sit at the grown ups table and seemingly try to  refuse to play by their rules. Let’s be clear-eyed about this: Steam would not have blinked if a couple of hundred k people wanted to buy, yet ED buckled under that strain. There’s a cost attached to being big league, and Steam calls that price. That’s all fine, and RB can decide to not play at that level. What is to their detriment ist (IMHO) that they failed to tell us up front. Another snafu on top of all the unfortunate brouhahas we experienced before. All understandable, yet inexplicable in a professional context - Steam’s terms & conditions aren’t new, RB has been selling through steams for years. It does make me wonder who is running the show there, as this major FU is not to be laid at ED’s feet, this is entirely RB.

What an unfortunate mess. Best of luck to RB, as I still want them to succeed. And I hope that they find someone with more big-league experience to catch silly things like this before they start a sale. It would have cost them nothing to tell everyone that pre-orders were only on the e-shop. Everyone would have understood. Now they simply look bad, with bad excuses that could have worked well just a few weeks ago. Silly, dumb, inexcusable mistakes by someone whom we know can and should know better.

Man, I ‘d feel sorry for them if I wasn’t so disappointed. RB is a long-time partner to broth Steam and ED and they are *not* a neophyte in this business. Please, please please take a look at what you are doing and plan ahead to make you customers less disheartened with your antics. This was completely avoidable.

 

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3 minutes ago, cfrag said:

Well, yes and no. It is hilarious that RB wants to sit at the grown ups table and seemingly try to  refuse to play by their rules. Let’s be clear-eyed about this: Steam would not have blinked if a couple of hundred k people wanted to buy, yet ED buckled under that strain. There’s a cost attached to being big league, and Steam calls that price. That’s all fine, and RB can decide to not play at that level. What is to their detriment ist (IMHO) that they failed to tell us up front. Another snafu on top of all the unfortunate brouhahas we experienced before. All understandable, yet inexplicable in a professional context - Steam’s terms & conditions aren’t new, RB has been selling through steams for years. It does make me wonder who is running the show there, as this major FU is not to be laid at ED’s feet, this is entirely RB.

What an unfortunate mess. Best of luck to RB, as I still want them to succeed. And I hope that they find someone with more big-league experience to catch silly things like this before they start a sale. It would have cost them nothing to tell everyone that pre-orders were only on the e-shop. Everyone would have understood. Now they simply look bad, with bad excuses that could have worked well just a few weeks ago. Silly, dumb, inexcusable mistakes by someone whom we know can and should know better.

Man, I ‘d feel sorry for them if I wasn’t so disappointed. RB is a long-time partner to broth Steam and ED and they are *not* a neophyte in this business. Please, please please take a look at what you are doing and plan ahead to make you customers less disheartened with your antics. This was completely avoidable.

 

All that only happened to those who chose that it happened to them.  You feel disappointed because you've wrapped up your own expectation into the subject.  YOU assumed.  They never said that there would be steam pre-orders AND...  As I understand they've said the steam pre-order will happen...  just not for a while yeah???  Or that there would be an initial sale on steam to cover this or something?  I don't remember exactly but the point is that you had expectations that weren't met.  RAzbam didn't give you those expectations.  You did.  This "major FU" can't be laid at Razbam's feet either sir ;)...  because it doesn't exist but in your mind.

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13 minutes ago, M1Combat said:

They never said that there would be steam pre-orders AND...  As I understand they've said the steam pre-order will happen...

Yes they did, it was in the initial Q&A images posted here from the Razbam Discord.  The team member (Lucas) said today that apparently it was never planned and has revised the Q&A post accordingly.  The Steam preorder will NOT be taking place ever, only the EA release at 20% discount.

Razbam 1.pngRazbam 2.png

 


Edited by Stackup
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10 minutes ago, M1Combat said:

YOU assumed

Well. I merely read their official statements and  releases - and the past 19 pages of comments. You don’t have have to make excuses for RB. We all know the facts, we did read their retractions. We understand. We simply aren’t happy. Let’s move forward and make the best out of this mess.


Edited by cfrag
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