HB F-4E Air Refueling?

[ThorBrasil]

Will the HB F-4E carry out Air Refueling or will the version we are going to receive not do it?  Thanks!

https://youtu.be/EVHXv1lPxG4

[Northstar98]

Yep, F-4Es had a receptacle for refueling using a flying boom (as did the F-4C and D and G and their variants):

 

F-4B/J/S/K/N/M have a retractable probe for probe and drogue refueling:

 

Some IDF F-4Es have a fixed probe, for probe and drogue refueling:

Edited October 13, 2023 by Northstar98
added more variants

[Czechnology]

28 minutes ago, ThorBrasil said:

Will the HB F-4E carry out Air Refueling or will the version we are going to receive not do it?  Thanks!

https://youtu.be/EVHXv1lPxG4

If we're talking if the F-4E is physically capable of A2A refueling, yes. Specifically, like said above, with a flying boom, and the naval variant when it comes out will use probe/drogue.
However, HB hasn't directly addressed if it will come out of the box with the capability or not. I would imagine it would, but could also easily imagine that being a feature that's having issues and needs to be held back for a later release.

tl;dr
We'll get it eventually

[Diesel_Thunder]

One thing I’d like to add is I got to talk with one of our pilots for the F-4D that I help work on, and asked about refueling. He flew both the F-4 and F-16 during his Air Force career. He mentioned that between the two, the F-4 was more difficult. One of the reasons being is that the refuel socket pops up out of the airframe, which he said you had to fly more precisely than later aircraft with the recessed slipway door.  

[Gianky]

On 2/1/2023 at 12:25 AM, Czechnology said:

... being a feature that's having issues ...

Hey Czech, is that a speculation of yours, or has it been stated somewhere by the devs?

[Czechnology]

4 hours ago, Gianky said:

Hey Czech, is that a speculation of yours, or has it been stated somewhere by the devs?

Speculation. Full quote there is:

"I would imagine it would [Have a2a refueling], but could also easily imagine that being a feature that's having issues and needs to be held back for a later release."

[Gianky]

Ok, thank you, Czechnology!

[Dragon1-1]

AAR is pretty basic stuff, I'm pretty sure it'll be in. How easy it'll be, that's another matter, but the GIB will be there to help.

[Gianky]

1 hour ago, Dragon1-1 said:

AAR is pretty basic stuff, I'm pretty sure it'll be in. How easy it'll be, that's another matter, but the GIB will be there to help.

Or make you mad, considering Jester...

[Dragon1-1]

I can't wait for all the corny jokes about putting a long pointy boom into the gashole (yes, that's actual Vietnam-era slang).  Although, true to the form, it's the boomer who's doing most of the hard work...

[sparrow88]

16 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

but the GIB will be there to help.

Did they say there will be an option for him to do anything more than F14 Iceman does?

[Dragon1-1]

No, although they're supposedly overhauling the AI system into "Jester 2.0", so there's a chance Iceman will learn some new tricks, too. However, don't expect anything more than a voice-operated autopilot. 

[Gianky]

I'm sorry: if we can switch to the backseat (at least in SP, not sure about multi), can't we simply fly from behind? F-4E should have a second set of flight controls, right?

[Diesel_Thunder]

The F-4E was exclusively an Air Force variant and as such featured dual controls. So @Gianky, to answer your question, yes you can fly from the backseat.

On the subject of refueling, we rolled out the hydraulic cart again today to leak check the utility system, and we cycled the air refuel door a couple times. For those that have never seen it, here is what it looks like:

 

[Gianky]

Thank you, Diesel_Thunder!

[Diesel_Thunder]

18 minutes ago, Gianky said:

Thank you, Diesel_Thunder!

My pleasure!

[AndyJWest]

1 hour ago, Diesel_Thunder said:

The F-4E was exclusively an Air Force variant and as such featured dual controls. So @Gianky, to answer your question, yes you can fly from the backseat.

On the subject of refueling, we rolled out the hydraulic cart again today to leak check the utility system, and we cycled the air refuel door a couple times. For those that have never seen it, here is what it looks like:

Looks bashed about a bit. Is that normal?

[Diesel_Thunder]

57 minutes ago, AndyJWest said:

Looks bashed about a bit. Is that normal?

I believe that is normal. The two plates on the sides are replaceable, as is the top fairing when it is retracted. I’m not sure how often they are replaced, and that is likely on a “as needed” basis. Our Phantom was built in 1964 so she has definitely seen time on the boom!

[Kalasnkova74]

2 hours ago, Diesel_Thunder said:

I believe that is normal. The two plates on the sides are replaceable, as is the top fairing when it is retracted. I’m not sure how often they are replaced, and that is likely on a “as needed” basis. Our Phantom was built in 1964 so she has definitely seen time on the boom!

correct. Here’s what it looks like from the refueler’s view:

 

[Alpha]

On 2/10/2023 at 2:00 PM, Gianky said:

I'm sorry: if we can switch to the backseat (at least in SP, not sure about multi), can't we simply fly from behind? F-4E should have a second set of flight controls, right?

The Pilot flies the F4 into position using the tanker´s director lights. There is no need for any help from the backseat - and as you can´t really see the director lights from there tanking from the rear seat isn´t a thing.

[Diesel_Thunder]

19 hours ago, Alpha said:

The Pilot flies the F4 into position using the tanker´s director lights. There is no need for any help from the backseat - and as you can´t really see the director lights from there tanking from the rear seat isn´t a thing.

If I am not mistaken, the backseat is only calling out checklist items and safety observing. There’s no fuel totalizer in the back like in the F-14. 

[Gianky]

On 2/12/2023 at 9:00 PM, Alpha said:

The Pilot flies the F4 into position using the tanker´s director lights. There is no need for any help from the backseat - and as you can´t really see the director lights from there tanking from the rear seat isn´t a thing.

I know that, Alpha, but since somebody was wondering about difficulty and the help that GIB can give, I simply stated that you can fly the airplane from behind, if they wanna try to refuel from there.

As for the Phantom receptacle, to be very politically incorrect... don't read it if you have a modern sensibility!

Spoiler

it makes me wonder if USAF pilots asked MDD to designed it like that because they didn't want, back in the '60s, to have "female" parts on the airplane....

 

Edited February 13, 2023 by Gianky

[G.J.S]

55 minutes ago, Gianky said:

 

  Hide contents

it makes me wonder if USAF pilots asked MDD to designed it like that because they didn't want, back in the '60s, to have "female" parts on the airplane....

 

Sooooooooo many jokes . . . . Sooooooo many double entendres . . . . . I could quite easily get banned within 5 minutes if we’re to let fly all the things we used to say . . . . 

 

[Gianky]

I don't know them, but I assure you, I had to restrain myself! Feel free to shoot some PM my way, if you feel like it!

Edited February 13, 2023 by Gianky

[WildWeasel303]

On 2/11/2023 at 6:23 PM, Diesel_Thunder said:

I believe that is normal. The two plates on the sides are replaceable, as is the top fairing when it is retracted. I’m not sure how often they are replaced, and that is likely on a “as needed” basis. Our Phantom was built in 1964 so she has definitely seen time on the boom!

Based on what I know to be true from my experience and my coworker's Phantom knowledge as a former maintainer now crewing 16's with me, you're 100% on the money. As an example, the door on the 16 is meant to be dual purpose. Not only does it seal the airstream off from the components for the A/R receptacle when closed, it also retracts inside and acts as a shield to protect those same components from damage (door actuator, hydraulic lines, electrical connectors, etc). It's rare to see the door/panel itself not banged up and scraped by the boom connector. I imagine there's plenty of other maintainers in here that can back this up on their airframes that use boom refuel as well as I'm sure their doors are pretty beat up from normal use. We generally only replace the panel if it's degraded past a point of remaining material or damage beyond structural tolerances (don't have the exact numbers but it's published in one of the -3 T.O.'s if anyone feels froggy enough to start digging).

The receptacle itself and the related components underneath the door is where we tend to pay the closest attention for damage on the 16 (as I'm sure you would if this F4 was still hitting tankers today). The rollers need to be in serviceable condition (no obvious signs of wear or binding that would prohibit movement on the bearings), the outer o-ring/seal on the receptacle face should be free of cuts/damage/abrasion that would cause fuel leaking from the nozzle, etc. 

The A-10's get it worse than most because their A/R bay is in the nose. It's not uncommon to see antenna's taken out on top of the 16 from boom contact and nasty scratches in the paint/metal. The A-10's on the other hand get dented/beat on and it isn't pretty. 

Edited February 14, 2023 by WildWeasel303