7800X3D, 7900X3D, 7950X3D..

[Lurker]

I know that most of you guys don't want to hear this since this is an AMD focused thread, but Intel 12th gen and especially Intel 13th gen processors are extremely well made, they run very efficiently and have excellent single-thread and multithreaded performance. AMD has been knocking it out of the park in the last few generations but Intel has managed to come back strong with these chips (especially the 13th gen chips) and they are now consistently winning the price/performance battle in most segments. Not trying to start a thread war here, just mentioning this because a lot of people seem to be surprised by how well Intel has been doing in benchmarks lately even against the best X3D chips. 

[kerlcat]

Nothing right or wrong by picking side. It's just about what matter you the most. 

13900k is great for work and comes with 350W peak power draw... not every one enjoy liquid cooling to get the most from that beast. 

Coming to gaming, especially simulations, you would find X3D has more advantage ... it's matter of fact and no need to argue with. e.g. benchmarking by Tom's hardware...look at MSFS2020, F1 2020. Also if you check one popular thread here, you would see many 5800X3D owners' feedback there. AND, it only comes about 50W avg power draw during gaming. 

Another fact is: gen 13 is a headend platform. After a year, if you consider CPU upgrade, then you need to replace MB as well as the socket changed within 1 year. For Zen4, it's good for at least 3-4 yrs. So you may upgrad to Zen 6 with same MB. My previous rig was 4790K...so I would upgrade anything but MB which basically changing a whole rig for me. I hate Intel changing the socket design each 2-3 yrs. Pointless but just pushing us to upgrade whole rig in short period. 

Other things like PCIE5.0 channels etc. But depends on how much you care about future proof. 

Anyway, it's just each person's value & favor. Again, nothing about right or wrong. 13900K is still considered as top tier CPU which seems more than 50% of people selected as a no brainer. If someone prefer highest gaming performance, especially with DCS or MSFS2020, and wish to use MB for 4-5 yrs, and lower power draw w/ fan cooling for regular use, then X3D serial would be a great choice. 

FYI. You may find some benchmarks from Tomshardware specially around gaming: 2023 Gaming CPU Benchmarks Ranking. Look for MSFS2020, F1 2022 which is more relevant to DCS here. 

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/cpu-hierarchy,4312.html#section-gaming-cpu-benchmarks-ranking-2023

Edited May 12, 2023 by kerlcat

[Fakum]

I still basically have BIOS at default settings. I ran benchmarks for Cinebench, Heaven and DCS Torture test, then I set BIOS to EXPO 1, ran tests, then EXPO 2. if an7ything, there was very slight degradation with each change. I havnt done anything with Overclocking. Im not going to start putting the hours in to do all of that right now. My intent was to simply set the BIOS to do something to take advantage of the horsepower on its own. I see mentions of turning PBO on, and walking away. I have also seen some comments relative to this that indicate that in doing so, it cranks up the CPU voltage most of the time, perhaps a bit unhealthy? I am willing to flip a switch and check it out. I ran into some confusion though, there seems to be at least 3 switches in the BIOS that could be fiddle with and Im not sure which one I should be toying with. And the explanations I have found in my search are a bit convoluted. Can someone please give me some advise in this area? Thank you.

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[Hoirtel]

1 hour ago, Fakum said:

I still basically have BIOS at default settings. I ran benchmarks for Cinebench, Heaven and DCS Torture test, then I set BIOS to EXPO 1, ran tests, then EXPO 2. if an7ything, there was very slight degradation with each change. I havnt done anything with Overclocking. Im not going to start putting the hours in to do all of that right now. My intent was to simply set the BIOS to do something to take advantage of the horsepower on its own. I see mentions of turning PBO on, and walking away. I have also seen some comments relative to this that indicate that in doing so, it cranks up the CPU voltage most of the time, perhaps a bit unhealthy? I am willing to flip a switch and check it out. I ran into some confusion though, there seems to be at least 3 switches in the BIOS that could be fiddle with and Im not sure which one I should be toying with. And the explanations I have found in my search are a bit convoluted. Can someone please give me some advise in this area? Thank you.

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I'm in similar position, will post my results soon. Much less improvement from a OC 9900ks than I was expecting, but it is improved. No expo, I was hoping that it would add a bit but maybe not. I have seen videos that memory of makes no difference for X3D so if that's the case then it might be best off considering. 5800x3d didn't need it I think. What bios are you running @Fakum

[Fakum]

@HoirtelIm running BIOS 1602 that came out on 5-4-23, which is the latest for me

[EightyDuce]

8 hours ago, Hoirtel said:

I'm in similar position, will post my results soon. Much less improvement from a OC 9900ks than I was expecting, but it is improved. No expo, I was hoping that it would add a bit but maybe not. I have seen videos that memory of makes no difference for X3D so if that's the case then it might be best off considering. 5800x3d didn't need it I think. What bios are you running @Fakum

 

While with the X3D RAM specs don't make as much of a difference, the difference in overall performance is still there when comparing potato RAM settings to EXPO/XMP to manual tune. EXPO timings are very loose overall. On my 7700X I got close to a 10-13% improvement with memory overclock and memory timing tune (beyond EXPO ); EXPO2 got me roughly 5-7%.

 

On my 7800X3D I'm at roughly 7-10% improvement, game dependent. DCS I'm on a lower end with about 8% improvement going from EXPO/XMP DDR5 6000 32-38-38-96 at Auto IF to 6200 30-36-36-46 (and tuned secondary/tertiary timings) and IF @ 2167. In VR this may mean the difference between dropping down into a lower reprojection bracket or cruising at 90FPS.

 

TLDR: even with the X3D, there is still a significant difference between running bad/"stock" memory settings and tuned. Just some quick 5 minute tuning bring a good uptick, I'm not even talking about min-maxing. 

[shazam253]

just some comments:

I can confirm the point of power consumption and the potential heat issues. With my i9900k, air cooling was insufficient (mild OC 5Ghz). I haven't OCed my 7950x3d yet, but I usually do this as an intermediate step before upgrading. I ran tons of stress tests now including DCS and the CPU never got past 70 degrees and the GPU (4090) never past 80 degrees. I use an arctic "AIO" water cooler, basically two fans on a radiator with a pump on the CPU, made for 'dummies' to install.

After enabling the turbo mode in openxr and using FSR @85% resolution, I can fly at 80-90 FPS in most situations while having everything on high, visibility on ultra, but clouds on standard. I'm rather satisfied with that, with i9900k I 'only' got to 60-70 FPS, and what I did also see is that the graphics card benefited from the faster memory interface (PCIE 3 vs 4).

as for the Intel vs AMD - I would say we are in a luxurious position to pick either and be well off. The benchmarks you find online seem to be head-to-head in most scenarios. I decided to go AMD after some 20 years of intel, simply to support them a bit. Kinda like bigger airlines flying Boing and Airbus to keep up a healthy competition

As for the motherboard issues, I also have an ASUS, but decided to wait until a stable release is out, as said, everything stable and cool here. I will OC and XMP in a year, when DCS has more features added and the FPS go down again

[Fakum]

23 hours ago, Fakum said:

I still basically have BIOS at default settings. I ran benchmarks for Cinebench, Heaven and DCS Torture test, then I set BIOS to EXPO 1, ran tests, then EXPO 2. if an7ything, there was very slight degradation with each change. I havnt done anything with Overclocking. Im not going to start putting the hours in to do all of that right now. My intent was to simply set the BIOS to do something to take advantage of the horsepower on its own. I see mentions of turning PBO on, and walking away. I have also seen some comments relative to this that indicate that in doing so, it cranks up the CPU voltage most of the time, perhaps a bit unhealthy? I am willing to flip a switch and check it out. I ran into some confusion though, there seems to be at least 3 switches in the BIOS that could be fiddle with and Im not sure which one I should be toying with. And the explanations I have found in my search are a bit convoluted. Can someone please give me some advise in this area? Thank you.

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Any feedback on this would be greatly appreciated, Im not moving forward until Im clear as to which of these 3 I should change, especially with current matters, I dont want to make a mistake and cook something. Thanks,

[DishDoggie]

 

Edited May 14, 2023 by DishDoggie

[SkateZilla]

Was about to say, 
We've been following this closely on the "overclocking" forums/discords.

ASRock seems to have the least amount of AM5 problems, 

But ASUS' Build Quality and Support have gone in the toilet, they literally email you back with a beta bios, that voids the warranty if you email their support.

[Hoirtel]

2 minutes ago, SkateZilla said:

Was about to say, 
We've been following this closely on the "overclocking" forums/discords.

ASRock seems to have the least amount of AM5 problems, 

But ASUS' Build Quality and Support have gone in the toilet, they literally email you back with a beta bios, that voids the warranty if you email their support.

Not disagreeing, but the warranty voiding disclaimer has been removed from the bios downloads - some of the attention is getting through. 

[SkateZilla]

Just now, Hoirtel said:

Not disagreeing, but the warranty voiding disclaimer has been removed from the bios downloads - some of the attention is getting through. 

it was removed, but if you try to RMA the board they deny it still if you were running the beta bios.

[chev255]

Just upgraded from a 9700K (all core 5GHz) to an 7950X3D. Video card is 4090.

I did not do any proper benchmark but with Varjo Areo and lower resolution, to be CPU limited, I got the following at the start of Hornet Syria airbase defense mission, on the ground:

• 9700K - 45fps
• 7950X3D - threads 0-31 - 58fps
• 7950X3D - threads 16-31 (non 3D cores) - 61fps
• 7950X3D - threads 0-15 (3D cores) - 85fps

So I am very happy with the 39% increase of the 3D cores versus non-3D!

[okletsgo]

9 hours ago, chev255 said:

Just upgraded from a 9700K (all core 5GHz) to an 7950X3D. Video card is 4090.

I did not do any proper benchmark but with Varjo Areo and lower resolution, to be CPU limited, I got the following at the start of Hornet Syria airbase defense mission, on the ground:

• 9700K - 45fps
• 7950X3D - threads 0-31 - 58fps
• 7950X3D - threads 16-31 (non 3D cores) - 61fps
• 7950X3D - threads 0-15 (3D cores) - 85fps

So I am very happy with the 39% increase of the 3D cores versus non-3D!

How are you setting which cores it runs on? Affinity in Task Manager? I haven't been bothering to set anything as I thought ED fixed DCS to run on the 3D cores in a recent OB release. Maybe I should be setting something.

 

[SkateZilla]

17 hours ago, okletsgo said:

How are you setting which cores it runs on? Affinity in Task Manager? I haven't been bothering to set anything as I thought ED fixed DCS to run on the 3D cores in a recent OB release. Maybe I should be setting something.

 

In his Bios,

Both CCXs on = 0-31 Cores Active
CCX02 On, CCX01 Off = 16-31 Active (0-15 are Disabled)
CCX01 On, CCX02 Off = 0-15 Active (w/ VCACHE) (16-31 are Disabled.)

[Cavemanhead]

Asus addresses their warranty issues, etc...:

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/asus-responds-to-negative-press-around-am5-issues

After the fiasco, one can imagine actually being more protected on a warranty return because of all the bad press that won't be forgotten.

[Hoirtel]

Asus Strix X670E-F has new stable bios posted today, so I would assume all current Asus boards have one. 

[Fakum]

Not yet

[BitMaster]

That's not enough to remedy the damage.

AMD and Intel need to respond to the XMP/Expo vs. Warranty issue as well. You shouldn't be allowed to advertise a feature but using it voids your warranty.

Anyway, does the new Bios really fix the issue, I thought I read otherwise today but I might be wrong and the Bios is newer than that article I flew over.

[SkateZilla]

Expo on ASUS has been a problem since day 1.

JayTC went thru like 3 mainboards already.

[Hoirtel]

2 minutes ago, BitMaster said:

That's not enough to remedy the damage.

AMD and Intel need to respond to the XMP/Expo vs. Warranty issue as well. You shouldn't be allowed to advertise a feature but using it voids your warranty.

Anyway, does the new Bios really fix the issue, I thought I read otherwise today but I might be wrong and the Bios is newer than that article I flew over.

Dunno if it fixes it or not yet, but I expect that setting the SOC low enough would half fix it anyway, and dont think any of the bios updates fix the borked OCP unless they just left that out of the change notes.... Doubt it will get tested aside from the user base, but we got nothing else to do but try it and be vigilant. 

Just now, SkateZilla said:

Expo on ASUS has been a problem since day 1.

JayTC went thru like 3 mainboards already.

He did put the ram in the wrong sockets. It was in the video.... Just saying...

[SkateZilla]

30 minutes ago, Hoirtel said:

Dunno if it fixes it or not yet, but I expect that setting the SOC low enough would half fix it anyway, and dont think any of the bios updates fix the borked OCP unless they just left that out of the change notes.... Doubt it will get tested aside from the user base, but we got nothing else to do but try it and be vigilant. 

He did put the ram in the wrong sockets. It was in the video.... Just saying...

missed that, but doesnt explain the problem he continues to have.

[Hoirtel]

34 minutes ago, SkateZilla said:

missed that, but doesnt explain the problem he continues to have.

Somebody else pointed it out in this thread couple of months ago. I watched it back and saw. He also says he gets asus's "refurbished" or returned boards. Not a good move.. might explain some problems? Maybe not. 

[chev255]

On 5/15/2023 at 4:50 PM, okletsgo said:

How are you setting which cores it runs on? Affinity in Task Manager? I haven't been bothering to set anything as I thought ED fixed DCS to run on the 3D cores in a recent OB release. Maybe I should be setting something.

 

I use process lasso (free version). When not setting any affinity, even though I set DCS as a game in the game bar, it was still loading threads 16-31 so it is worth using lasso.

I am told in lasso it is better to use "CPU set" than affinity.

EDIT: also I use lasso to move all processes other than DCS to threads 16-31

Edited May 17, 2023 by chev255

[dugite57]

I'm actualy glad that I went ASRock instead of ASUS. I had been on ASUS for 20 or more years...

https://www.anandtech.com/show/18847/voltage-lockdown-investigating-amd-agesa-1007-on-x670e-taichi