7800X3D, 7900X3D, 7950X3D..

[BitMaster]

vor 11 Stunden schrieb dugite57:

I'm actualy glad that I went ASRock instead of ASUS. I had been on ASUS for 20 or more years...

https://www.anandtech.com/show/18847/voltage-lockdown-investigating-amd-agesa-1007-on-x670e-taichi

Me too, my first Asus was way back in the early 90's and I sold and used myself a lot of them over those years.

I had such bad experience with some boards some years ago that I finally decided, no more Asus until they change attitude.

I have mostly sold Gigabyte for the last few years and only 1 guy is not happy with his PC, but that is a different story.

..in addition..I haven't sold a single Intel since Ryzen came out as well.

 

Times change, so do I

[EightyDuce]

Asus +7800X3D happily ticking away. Not really loyal to any brand, just my wallet and needs. 

Next go around, if Asus has better boards/features for the price, I'll stay with Asus. Otherwise, GIGABYTE is my runner up/tied for first place. IMO this thing got spun up by the internet from just a couple of incidents (some of which cause isn't even confirmed) to the point where common sense exited the chat. 

Internet is gonna internet. 

[ISantus]

My new system (ASUS X670e-e and 7800x3d) has been the most stable system I have ever built. I have built at least 10 systems. I quickly adjusted voltages manually but otherwise I have been happily running EXPO and -30 PBO without issues. I'm watching curiously as this all unfolds, still running on 1303 BIOS. 

[kerlcat]

Believe you guys noticed new BIOS 1616(non-beta) w/1.0.0.7a released yesterday to fix the potential burning issue for good and recover a bit of the lost reputation around warranty policy. 

Already updated w/o any issue and less concern with burning risk. 

 

[Jonay]

I'm still having issues trying to get any increase in VR performance compared to my 6700k with my new 7800X3D, both are achieving only 21FPS with the G2 headset.

 

In 2D the difference is chalk and cheese, from 40-45fps to 80-90fps, I've tried both OpenXR which I was on before as well as going back to SteamVR.  Both are showing CPU rendering thread limits using the DCS FPS counter.

 

[chev255]

1 hour ago, Jonay said:

I'm still having issues trying to get any increase in VR performance compared to my 6700k with my new 7800X3D, both are achieving only 21FPS with the G2 headset.

 

In 2D the difference is chalk and cheese, from 40-45fps to 80-90fps, I've tried both OpenXR which I was on before as well as going back to SteamVR.  Both are showing CPU rendering thread limits using the DCS FPS counter.

 

DCS FPS counter indications are wrong, I have never seen anything else than CPU limited, even when it is clearly GPU

WHat GPU do you have?

[Fakum]

On 5/14/2023 at 9:35 AM, Fakum said:

Any feedback on this would be greatly appreciated, Im not moving forward until Im clear as to which of these 3 I should change, especially with current matters, I dont want to make a mistake and cook something. Thanks,

So I have been reading and watching Utube Vids all week to learn how to overclock automatically in the BIOS. I have found alot of settings that dont match up to what I have available because they are outdated or whatever etc and read up on this stuff and experimented. Basically, I started out with default settings and started making changes to BIOS 1 step at a time. For Benchmarks, I run Cinebench, Heaven, and 2 DCS Torture tests (With Cap Frame X). I made a spread sheet to log scores/max fps. avg fps, some voltages and temps etc. Started with setting EXPO 1, then EXPO 2, them moved on to setting PBO to AUTO, then Enhanced mode, then setting curve optimizer to neg (Auto) (ALL CORES) etc. The short version of all of this is, there is basically ZERO changes to scores/FPS/Temps etc,,, all of those tweeks sum up to the same as default basically? How can that be? I know this really isnt the thread to resolve, maybe a few tips are available, but I found that posting on the ASUS forums dont yield alot of responses. Can anyone recommend a good place to run this through? I was NOT intending to try and setup every single core to overclock. I would be happy to get some more horsepower with just some switch flipping in the BIOS. Thanks for any tips.

[kerlcat]

@Fakum there is no meaningful OC headroom for X3D serial or even any AMD cpus. Consider that portion of works have been done by OEM. Good thing is we don’t have to waste time to do that to get the best out of it. It’s there out of box. Personally I just set EXPO and PBO as it is to ensure I wont waste any potential (if any). But never spent time to see what on earth those improved by X%.  

Edit: before setting EXPO or PBO, make sure upgraded latest BIOS w/ 1.0.0.7a or above. Or facing low risk to burn the CPU.

Edited May 19, 2023 by kerlcat

[Fakum]

@kerlcat Wow, not really what I expected for an response LOL, Seems like alot of wasted BIOS settings for cranking it up if your not really going to be able to do anything more with the CPU then what comes out of the box. I mean, outside of manually cranking up the cores of course. Well, my test results support your statement though.

Anywho, so you set your EXPO, then you set PBO, now PBO by default is AUTO, so do you ENABLE it or do you set it for ENHANCED and tweek anything else?

Thanks,

[EightyDuce]

2 hours ago, Fakum said:

@kerlcat Wow, not really what I expected for an response LOL, Seems like alot of wasted BIOS settings for cranking it up if your not really going to be able to do anything more with the CPU then what comes out of the box. I mean, outside of manually cranking up the cores of course. Well, my test results support your statement though.

Anywho, so you set your EXPO, then you set PBO, now PBO by default is AUTO, so do you ENABLE it or do you set it for ENHANCED and tweek anything else?

Thanks,

To be honest, unless you have a board that allows for an external clock generator any overclocking features on the 7800X3D are pointless as its fused max is 5Ghz. PBO will be of no benefit and neither is curve optimizer, unless your goal is efficiency and cooler temps. The only way to make the 7800X3D go above 5Ghz is with FCLK/ECLK modification. The reason curve optimizer works on other SKUs , is that other SKUs are almost always thermally limited. With CO negative offset there's less heat thus more room to boost to higher speeds. 7800X3D you're stuck at 5Ghz.

 

Now as far as memory is concerned, it will depend on the application and whether it's bandwith/latency starved to how much of a benefit you will see. But realistically best case with an X3D chip would be 7-10%.

 

Arguably, thats one part of the appeal of an X3D chip...you can drop it in a budget MB and will be go about as fast as a $500 MB. 

[Thinder]

On 5/17/2023 at 3:49 PM, ISantus said:

My new system (ASUS X670e-e and 7800x3d) has been the most stable system I have ever built. I have built at least 10 systems. I quickly adjusted voltages manually but otherwise I have been happily running EXPO and -30 PBO without issues. I'm watching curiously as this all unfolds, still running on 1303 BIOS. 

+100.

I'm very happy with my ASUS mobo, the MSI X570 ACE MAX it replaces was a complete catastrophe, not only its PCIE_E 1 was faulty, it is also a mediocre design with bad accessibility (impossible to have access to the battery with an SSD fitted for example).

On the other hand I had similar very good experience with thew MSI B450 GAMING PLUS, so by experience I can say it is not a question of brand but which model within a brand, some are good, some are bad, my ASUS TUF Gaming X570-PLUS runs perfect, I only have to get use to the different BIOS interface to make sure I get the settings I want.

  

10 hours ago, kerlcat said:

@Fakum there is no meaningful OC headroom for X3D serial or even any AMD cpus. Consider that portion of works have been done by OEM. Good thing is we don’t have to waste time to do that to get the best out of it. It’s there out of box.

 

I couldn't agree more, it is particularly true in the case of the X3D CPUs, O.C them it not how you optimize their performances, in the case of the 5800X 3D it is by proper RAM-CPU bounding, a lot more efficient than throwing more capacity at them, the Controllers set the tempo not the forum talks.

Edited May 20, 2023 by Thinder

[Fakum]

@EightyDuce thanks for that helpful feedback! I was beating myself up trying to understand why I couldn't get any performance/score increases after all of those hours and testing manipulating BIOS settings.

@ThinderThank you as well sir for your feedback. Its time to move on now to fiddling with DCS Graphics settings.

Many thanks guys

[kerlcat]

That’s the right way to enjoy DCS though OC itself shall be interesting thing to spend some time for someone. You have a great platform for it now. Saw some decent improvement from MT version. Very much looking for it becoming stable and Vulcan coming next for another boost in performance. Yeah!

[Jonay]

On 5/19/2023 at 1:59 PM, chev255 said:

DCS FPS counter indications are wrong, I have never seen anything else than CPU limited, even when it is clearly GPU

WHat GPU do you have?

When I'm in 2D it states GPU bound, so it does have some purpose.

 

I know I'm only on a 2080S 8GB card, but I would have expected at a tiny improvement from my previous CPU, considering I've also bumped up from some medicore 32GB DD4-3600, to 64GBs of DDR5-6000

[Hoirtel]

10 hours ago, Jonay said:

When I'm in 2D it states GPU bound, so it does have some purpose.

 

I know I'm only on a 2080S 8GB card, but I would have expected at a tiny improvement from my previous CPU, considering I've also bumped up from some medicore 32GB DD4-3600, to 64GBs of DDR5-6000

You will be very very GPU bound. I've gone from a i9 9900KS OC'd at 5.1, to 7800X3D using the same 3090. The 7800 is very very GPU bound now whereas the 9900 managed to load it to between 80-98%. EXPO makes no difference for me here, due to GPU bounding. I have some stats to post later.

[Hoirtel]

So after quite a while I have some benchmarks to post. Nice little improvement all benchmarks done with the same 3090. Old system is i9 9900KS 64Gb DDR4 3600 C18, new system is 7800X3D with 64GB of Kingston fury, this is rated to 6000 C36 but for below tests it is running without expo. Expo is making no difference at the moment due to GPU bottleneck.

Shame capframe X doesn't let you make these bar charts with the average frametimes rather than FPS. The individual analysis tabs show a decent lower and more consistent frametime on new system. I can also feel this at all stages of flight, the whole thing just feels more fluid and responsive. Didn't expect that. 

Tests done with plasma torture track, high preset, 2D, 1440p. Tested ST and MT on both systems. 

Edited May 23, 2023 by Hoirtel

[shazam253]

Short remark, after the stable BIOS update came out for the ASUS TUF x670e plus, I decided to give DOCP tweaked as well as PBO in enhanced mode level 2.

In the 3D Mark, I managed to get 9% more, 8.7% are from the DOCP tweaked - it ramped my RAM from 4.2 to 6 Ghz. Interestingly enough, the graphic score went up by 5% itself, and the CPU score by 20%.

I know its not DCS, but I'd say 'doing the OC' will be difficult to measure, but I would assume somewhere between 3-5%. I guess you should ensure proper cooling, all my components stayed below 80 degrees while using an 240mm AIO watercooler for the CPU.

[Thinder]

On 5/24/2023 at 6:35 PM, shazam253 said:

Short remark, after the stable BIOS update came out for the ASUS TUF x670e plus, I decided to give DOCP tweaked as well as PBO in enhanced mode level 2.

In the 3D Mark, I managed to get 9% more, 8.7% are from the DOCP tweaked - it ramped my RAM from 4.2 to 6 Ghz. Interestingly enough, the graphic score went up by 5% itself, and the CPU score by 20%.

I know its not DCS, but I'd say 'doing the OC' will be difficult to measure, but I would assume somewhere between 3-5%. I guess you should ensure proper cooling, all my components stayed below 80 degrees while using an 240mm AIO watercooler for the CPU.

 Very interesting.

Please port your complete system stats including RAM latency and frequency, this way we really can see what can be going on, note that I experienced similar gains with the use of 'cl14 RAM and that I figured that OCing my GPU to a Maximum Frequency of 3075 actually translated quite well in DCS despite a BIOS setting and limiting the PCU to an average 3600MHz before BIOS Update.

The stock BIOS apparently limited the CPU Boost frequency to 3600MHz and prevented the 8 Cores to boost.

In 3DMark I also figured that my actual 32GB 4 X 1 stick of 3600 Cl14 RAM was 31% faster at 4K than the 4 X 1 16GB it replaces, that's the CPU throttling down under load because it cannot manage 8 ranks, tests were conducted in 3DMark Pro Firestrike at 4K 2 X MSAA.

My GPU ran at 2662MHz and stayed cool, Max Junction Temperature was 81°, frequency is <> 6.5% above stock Boost speed.

Edited May 26, 2023 by Thinder

[shazam253]

Sorry. Yeah specs 7950x3d with RAM at 6 GHz and CL 32. Graphics card is a 4090. Before the bios update, I didn't use XMP/DOCP and RAM was at 4.2 GHz and CL 40.

I fly DCS in VR with a G2, but currently feel I'm GPU bound according to oopenxr-toolki. so I use 70-75% of the resolution with FSR enabled and medium visibility to practically always stay below 11ms frame time. CPU frame time is somewhere between 4-9 ms depending on the scenario. But I found maps like Mariana, Normandy and Syria quite demanding in scenery rich areas. If it were Caucusus only, I would go 85% resolution and high visibility.

Then again, no hard science, I just took off with the F16 bunch of times from the Mariana got start map to tune out my settings. I wonder if DLSS will be better performing than the FSR tweak from openxr-toolkit. At 85% resolution I don't see a picture degradation, but at 70% it's noticable.

[Callsign.Vega]

On 5/14/2023 at 6:48 PM, chev255 said:

Just upgraded from a 9700K (all core 5GHz) to an 7950X3D. Video card is 4090.

I did not do any proper benchmark but with Varjo Areo and lower resolution, to be CPU limited, I got the following at the start of Hornet Syria airbase defense mission, on the ground:

• 9700K - 45fps
• 7950X3D - threads 0-31 - 58fps
• 7950X3D - threads 16-31 (non 3D cores) - 61fps
• 7950X3D - threads 0-15 (3D cores) - 85fps

So I am very happy with the 39% increase of the 3D cores versus non-3D!

So if that's the case, your results are basically saying just get the 7800X3D over the 7950X3D for DCS MT?

[chev255]

On 5/28/2023 at 1:26 AM, Callsign.Vega said:

So if that's the case, your results are basically saying just get the 7800X3D over the 7950X3D for DCS MT?

I would say 7800X3D is probably the most sensible option. But the 7950X3D allows you to run all other processes (voice attack, kneeboard, varjo base, etc.) on threads 16-31 which should also help with performance. So it all depends how much of a big deal is it for you to spend the extra $250

[Callsign.Vega]

On 5/28/2023 at 7:07 PM, chev255 said:

I would say 7800X3D is probably the most sensible option. But the 7950X3D allows you to run all other processes (voice attack, kneeboard, varjo base, etc.) on threads 16-31 which should also help with performance. So it all depends how much of a big deal is it for you to spend the extra $250

Went with the 7950X3D.

[mac22]

On 5/29/2023 at 1:07 AM, chev255 said:

I would say 7800X3D is probably the most sensible option. But the 7950X3D allows you to run all other processes (voice attack, kneeboard, varjo base, etc.) on threads 16-31 which should also help with performance. So it all depends how much of a big deal is it for you to spend the extra $250

reading the thread with interest (just building a new PC for MSFS and DCS).

1)will go with the 4090 (as a fly 2d and VR) but just wondering is there any consensus regarding whether the AMD  7800 or 7950 is better for DCS/MSFS? (not don't mind paying the extra if it will give me better performance across both sims)

2)also assuming the issue with the Asus motherboards and AMD CPU's has now been resolved with a firmware update - or is it still worth considering an intel?

 

3)Had big issues getting the new MT to work with my olf i76700 assume it will run equally as well in MT with either the 7950 and 7800?

Edited June 8, 2023 by mac22

[dugite57]

1 - My 7800X3D, 4090, 64meg Ram exceed my expectations in both sims. I only play in VR Quest 2.  However other components like NVMe SSD's etc are probably helping.  I went the AMD route as there's an upgrade pathway for whatever the best AMD CPU is in a few years.  I got scared off of the 7950 X3D due initial reports of having to muck about to get the cores doing their stuff properly, but I think in hindsight that's all a storm in a teacup.  I think either CPU will be fine and like somebody said the 7950X3D can probably help with background apps you may use.

2 - New bios's have been released that address the CPU cooking dramas.

3 - MT runs brilliantly on my 7800X3D and from what I've read on the 7950X3D as well.

 

[Thinder]

On 6/8/2023 at 12:48 PM, mac22 said:

2)also assuming the issue with the Asus motherboards and AMD CPU's has now been resolved with a firmware update - or is it still worth considering an intel?

I used the stock BIOS and updated it after I realized that the stock settings were limiting the CPU to 3600MHz, once the BIOS updated it runs to its optimal frequency without issue.

The cooking BIOS issue doesn't concern my TUF GAMING, once again, one must be careful not to generalize when one type of device has issues, there have been a number of cases from both AMD, Intel and NVIDIA, it didn't make all of their devices plagued with the same problem.

I frankly don't regret my choice to stick to DDR4, I was reluctant to make the jump to DDR5 because the technology is not yet mature and after some initial problems caused mainly by anything else than the CPU or GPU, once the system is stable it flies in VR/MT like it really was meant to do.

Things to look at which are or can be source of problems:

Microsoft Automatic Updates; replacing AMD drivers with their own and embedding MPO settings limiting the performances of the GPU. MTO Fix

AMD Ryzen 7 5800X 3D Max Operating Temperature (Tjmax) of 90°C, it is not very high, if your case cooling is average it might cause the CPU to throttle down due to thermal limits.

Progresses due to use of MT:

From <> 15% CPU bottleneck, even with the GPU running at 3000MHz (with the previous driver), the CPU now works all cores in a way that get the GPU to work a lot harder to process all the data, the bottleneck is now the GPU and I bet it would be much the same with an 4080 only looking at its boost stats, my Sapphire ran 19.50% faster, you'll need a watercooled O.Ced GPU to achieve parity with the humble 7 5800X 3D performances.

Where it can be improved: Timeframe, use of memory, cooling (case, CPU), B.Die RAM (if you haven't get one of those kits yet).