Grubenstein Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 Hi All, Since the last few updates. Starting to flag frame rate wise. My current specs are: CPU: i7-9700K @ 3.60 GHz - (Gigabyte H370 Aorus WIFI Gaming 3) 32 Gig RAM GPU: Nvidia Geforce GTX 1070 Ti I play in VR (Quest 2) but reverted recently back to Occulus CV1 as frame rate bad. HOTAS X55 (but starting to get dodgy!) Thinking Graphics card upgrade. May be RTX 3060Ti (budget about £400 ish) Any advice would be most Welcome Thanks Grubes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucShep Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 (edited) As much as I like the RTX3060Ti 8GB (I had one for a while), it isn't a Quest2 VR capable GPU for DCS. You really want an RTX3080 10GB or better. With your system and Quest2 VR, an RTX3080 will boost immensely your DCS experience, great stop-gap upgrade that'll do the trick, until you can plan a total system upgrade. You'll notice that it's still very hard to get a brand new RTX3080 10 or 12 GB below the £700 mark (the insanity of the GPU market) and for that price I don't think it's worth it. So, get a used RTX3080 (10GB or 12GB) currently going for around £420 (probably less if you can negotiate or go into bidding auctions) on Ebay and etc. Be patient and look for those from trusted sellers and at the right price, they're there for sure. You don't mention what PSU you have. 750W+ is recomended for the RTX3080 so, if you decide to get one, make sure you have a good PSU for it. Edited February 5, 2023 by LucShep 1 DCS 2.5.6 - a lighter alternative | A-10A cockpit retexture | Shadows Reduced Impact | CGTC - Caucasus retexture Spoiler Win10 Pro x64 | Intel i7 12700K (OC@ 5.1/5.0p + 4.0e) | 64GB DDR4 (OC@ 3700 CL17 Crucial Ballistix) | RTX 3090 24GB EVGA FTW3 Ultra | 2TB NVMe (MP600 Pro XT) + 500GB SSD (WD Blue) + 3TB HDD (Toshiba P300) + 1TB HDD (WD Blue) | Corsair RMX 850W | Asus Z690 TUF+ D4 | TR PA120SE | Fractal Meshify-C | UAD Volt1 + Sennheiser HD-599SE | 7x USB 3.0 Hub | 50'' 4K Philips 7608/12 UHD TV (+Head Tracking) | HP Reverb G1 Pro (VR) | TM Warthog + Logitech X56 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derneuemann Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 I use a 3060TI for a Quest 2. Sure, more VRam is always better, but the 3060TI fuels the Quest 2 more than decently for me. I use the native resolution with 4x MSAA, ultra visibility, forest visibility 100% and otherwise a medium mix. In the F18 in VR 7-7.2GB are occupied. In the F14 also something like that. In the AH64 it was 7.9GB at first, but I was able to optimize the setting (ultra visibility instead of low, or medium and more forest visibility have reduced the VRam requirement) to 7.5-7.6GB. In addition, there is an AH64 texture mod, which didn't save any memory for me, but optically comes close to the high textures and doesn't need more VRam. I5 13400F, 32GB DDR5 6200 CL30, RTX4070ti Super 2x 1tb m.2 (PCIe4.0) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grubenstein Posted February 12, 2023 Author Share Posted February 12, 2023 On 2/5/2023 at 8:48 PM, LucShep said: As much as I like the RTX3060Ti 8GB (I had one for a while), it isn't a Quest2 VR capable GPU for DCS. You really want an RTX3080 10GB or better. With your system and Quest2 VR, an RTX3080 will boost immensely your DCS experience, great stop-gap upgrade that'll do the trick, until you can plan a total system upgrade. You'll notice that it's still very hard to get a brand new RTX3080 10 or 12 GB below the £700 mark (the insanity of the GPU market) and for that price I don't think it's worth it. So, get a used RTX3080 (10GB or 12GB) currently going for around £420 (probably less if you can negotiate or go into bidding auctions) on Ebay and etc. Be patient and look for those from trusted sellers and at the right price, they're there for sure. You don't mention what PSU you have. 750W+ is recomended for the RTX3080 so, if you decide to get one, make sure you have a good PSU for it. Thanks for the advice. I have a 650 Watts power supply?. Would this be ok? On 2/9/2023 at 6:52 AM, derneuemann said: I use a 3060TI for a Quest 2. Sure, more VRam is always better, but the 3060TI fuels the Quest 2 more than decently for me. I use the native resolution with 4x MSAA, ultra visibility, forest visibility 100% and otherwise a medium mix. In the F18 in VR 7-7.2GB are occupied. In the F14 also something like that. In the AH64 it was 7.9GB at first, but I was able to optimize the setting (ultra visibility instead of low, or medium and more forest visibility have reduced the VRam requirement) to 7.5-7.6GB. In addition, there is an AH64 texture mod, which didn't save any memory for me, but optically comes close to the high textures and doesn't need more VRam. Great thanks will consider both options Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grubenstein Posted February 12, 2023 Author Share Posted February 12, 2023 One quick question does the 3060 require 750watts power as well? Obviously cost consideration Thanks all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derneuemann Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 vor 20 Stunden schrieb Grubenstein: One quick question does the 3060 require 750watts power as well? Obviously cost consideration Thanks all 3060TI use 200W and an 3060 around 170W. For my RTX3060TI with max power limit (220W) I operate comfortably on a 450W SFX power supply from Corsair. Don't let yourself go crazy. As an example, the Corsair SF450 can handle peak loads of up to 630W. A 3080 generates up to 520W peak, with a continuous load of 320W. I would even run your system with the 9700K overclocked (up to approx. 5-5.1 GHz) on my SF450 with an RTX3080. With some undervolting on the GPU, I would even run a 3090 like this. I5 13400F, 32GB DDR5 6200 CL30, RTX4070ti Super 2x 1tb m.2 (PCIe4.0) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BitMaster Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 vor 5 Stunden schrieb derneuemann: 3060TI use 200W and an 3060 around 170W. For my RTX3060TI with max power limit (220W) I operate comfortably on a 450W SFX power supply from Corsair. Don't let yourself go crazy. As an example, the Corsair SF450 can handle peak loads of up to 630W. A 3080 generates up to 520W peak, with a continuous load of 320W. I would even run your system with the 9700K overclocked (up to approx. 5-5.1 GHz) on my SF450 with an RTX3080. With some undervolting on the GPU, I would even run a 3090 like this. Sure, you could, but it's far from optimum and will need massive active cooling at 75%+ load. Also the quality of the DC current may degrade a lot towards 100%, depending on the overall build quality of the PSU. Aim for double the Watts you generally need. GPU 200w + CPU 80w + 50w fans/led/ etc.. ~ 350w consumption gaming -- would lead to a 650-750w PSU. Gigabyte Aorus X570S Master - Ryzen 5900X - Gskill 64GB 3200/CL14@3600/CL14 - Sapphire Nitro+ 7800XT - 4x Samsung 980Pro 1TB - 1x Samsung 870 Evo 1TB - 1x SanDisc 120GB SSD - Heatkiller IV - MoRa3-360LT@9x120mm Noctua F12 - Corsair AXi-1200 - TiR5-Pro - Warthog Hotas - Saitek Combat Pedals - Asus XG27ACG QHD 180Hz - Corsair K70 RGB Pro - Win11 Pro/Linux - Phanteks Evolv-X Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucShep Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, BitMaster said: Sure, you could, but it's far from optimum and will need massive active cooling at 75%+ load. Also the quality of the DC current may degrade a lot towards 100%, depending on the overall build quality of the PSU. Aim for double the Watts you generally need. GPU 200w + CPU 80w + 50w fans/led/ etc.. ~ 350w consumption gaming -- would lead to a 650-750w PSU. On 2/12/2023 at 8:48 AM, Grubenstein said: Thanks for the advice. I have a 650 Watts power supply?. Would this be ok? Yep, Bitmaster has a point. In my opinion, 650W and an RTX3080 may work ok in principle if you undervolt the RTX3080. Doing that, you'll reduce its voltage/wattage requirements substancially, as well as temperatures, and all without noticing performance loss. Running the stock (high!) voltages to ensure factory boost clocks, I think it'll be very tight with 650W and risk long term reliability, so definitely undervolt it. It's something that is recommended for any high range GPU, really, so worth doing anyway regardless of PSU in the system. Edited February 13, 2023 by LucShep DCS 2.5.6 - a lighter alternative | A-10A cockpit retexture | Shadows Reduced Impact | CGTC - Caucasus retexture Spoiler Win10 Pro x64 | Intel i7 12700K (OC@ 5.1/5.0p + 4.0e) | 64GB DDR4 (OC@ 3700 CL17 Crucial Ballistix) | RTX 3090 24GB EVGA FTW3 Ultra | 2TB NVMe (MP600 Pro XT) + 500GB SSD (WD Blue) + 3TB HDD (Toshiba P300) + 1TB HDD (WD Blue) | Corsair RMX 850W | Asus Z690 TUF+ D4 | TR PA120SE | Fractal Meshify-C | UAD Volt1 + Sennheiser HD-599SE | 7x USB 3.0 Hub | 50'' 4K Philips 7608/12 UHD TV (+Head Tracking) | HP Reverb G1 Pro (VR) | TM Warthog + Logitech X56 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derneuemann Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 vor einer Stunde schrieb BitMaster: Sure, you could, but it's far from optimum and will need massive active cooling at 75%+ load. Also the quality of the DC current may degrade a lot towards 100%, depending on the overall build quality of the PSU. Aim for double the Watts you generally need. GPU 200w + CPU 80w + 50w fans/led/ etc.. ~ 350w consumption gaming -- would lead to a 650-750w PSU. I think there are tests that show how power supplies regulate the voltage at which load. I think that today there is little against loading a good power supply unit up to 90%. My experiences and the tests I have read confirm that. But everyone has read different tests and has experiences. If you want more reserve, you can install stronger power supplies. Really necessary...? I5 13400F, 32GB DDR5 6200 CL30, RTX4070ti Super 2x 1tb m.2 (PCIe4.0) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiob Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 (edited) 13 minutes ago, derneuemann said: I think there are tests that show how power supplies regulate the voltage at which load. I think that today there is little against loading a good power supply unit up to 90%. My experiences and the tests I have read confirm that. But everyone has read different tests and has experiences. If you want more reserve, you can install stronger power supplies. Really necessary...? The Problem doesn't stem from loading the powersupply with 90% per se. But from the power needs of the GPU in particular. A GPU that has a specified max. power consumption of 600W will spike well above that under load (in the ms regime - and depending from its build qulity and software). Nevertheless those spikes in power need can trigger the overload protection of PSUs. If you are too close o the maximum specs of your PSU already, that could happen more easily. I agree that this is more of a theoretical problem though. At least as long you stay with reliable manufacturers. Edited February 13, 2023 by Hiob "Muß ich denn jedes Mal, wenn ich sauge oder saugblase den Schlauchstecker in die Schlauchnut schieben?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derneuemann Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 vor 28 Minuten schrieb Hiob: The Problem doesn't stem from loading the powersupply with 90% per se. But from the power needs of the GPU in particular. A GPU that has a specified max. power consumption of 600W will spike well above that under load (in the ms regime - and depending from its build qulity and software). Nevertheless those spikes in power need can trigger the overload protection of PSUs. If you are too close o the maximum specs of your PSU already, that could happen more easily. I agree that this is more of a theoretical problem though. At least as long you stay with reliable manufacturers. Clear, The RTX3080 has 320W TDP peaks up to 490W <1ms. A good power supply sees everything from 10ms safely. At 5-10ms, the RTX3080 is "only" 380W. An average CPU should be under 150W peak unless you are running a 13900KS or similar.. Counter-example an R5 5600 is below 100W peak...clearly. An entire system with an R5 5600, with a 3080 @ Stock and 32GB Ram and 2x SSD is in the worst case at 520W peak and 420W continuous load. This could be done using the power supply unit as an example. Without the voltage quality decreasing. Of course, if you upgrade more often and don't want to think about how the loads look in detail, or want to think about single rail, multi-rail, you can do it like this and double the required load. But you don't need that. Actually also Latte, how often do you buy a power supply You can also use a 550-650W power supply, or even 750W. I only calculate exactly because I doctor around in the small form factor area... I5 13400F, 32GB DDR5 6200 CL30, RTX4070ti Super 2x 1tb m.2 (PCIe4.0) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BitMaster Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 (edited) As a side note, iirc OVP and OCP can only be triggered that often before that specific circuit fails, that's what my electronics guy in town told me with another device that triggered those circuits way too often. It all depends and as long as all involved know the benefit and risc of using a "just fit" PSU vs. a more powerful one is ok with me, I am not paying for the damage, I fix those and charge them Long story short, I totally disagree out of experience fixing PC's. I would never sell a "GAMING" PC with a high cost GPU and cut 50-100€ on the PSU. That will likely not pay out. my honest 2 cents Edited February 13, 2023 by BitMaster Gigabyte Aorus X570S Master - Ryzen 5900X - Gskill 64GB 3200/CL14@3600/CL14 - Sapphire Nitro+ 7800XT - 4x Samsung 980Pro 1TB - 1x Samsung 870 Evo 1TB - 1x SanDisc 120GB SSD - Heatkiller IV - MoRa3-360LT@9x120mm Noctua F12 - Corsair AXi-1200 - TiR5-Pro - Warthog Hotas - Saitek Combat Pedals - Asus XG27ACG QHD 180Hz - Corsair K70 RGB Pro - Win11 Pro/Linux - Phanteks Evolv-X Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derneuemann Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 vor 13 Stunden schrieb BitMaster: As a side note, iirc OVP and OCP can only be triggered that often before that specific circuit fails, that's what my electronics guy in town told me with another device that triggered those circuits way too often. It all depends and as long as all involved know the benefit and risc of using a "just fit" PSU vs. a more powerful one is ok with me, I am not paying for the damage, I fix those and charge them Long story short, I totally disagree out of experience fixing PC's. I would never sell a "GAMING" PC with a high cost GPU and cut 50-100€ on the PSU. That will likely not pay out. my honest 2 cents I'm an electrical designer and I'm very good with the information on power supplies. Maybe a reason why I stay away from pointlessly oversized hardware. That the OCP or OPP can only be triggered a limited number of times is more of a fairy tale. Or how often do we talk now. If, for example, 1000 - 10000 times is meant, that is conceivable, but irrelevant in practice. Normally, these are electrochemical processes that do not wear out. If 10-20 times is meant, then it is no more than half-knowledge. I don't know how that works with Chinese firecrackers and I don't even want to know... Because the whole thing has nothing to do with saving. But you are welcome to provide a source that proves this, then you can look at what exactly was said, tested and possibly misinterpreted. Of course, all this reflects only my experience and my level of knowledge. I5 13400F, 32GB DDR5 6200 CL30, RTX4070ti Super 2x 1tb m.2 (PCIe4.0) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon1-1 Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 Just one more thing to note, besides the PSU, make sure all the other parts of your circuit can handle what you ask of them. I just managed to trip the overload light on my UPS by trying to overclock my 1080ti. My 500W PSU is up to the task, my UPS is not (I'll be looking to swap it for a bigger unit). Likewise, with PSUs approaching 1kW, you want to make sure your power strip won't blow the fuse (and you better use a fused one) once everything gets up to speed, especially if the monitor, VR headset and audio system are all on the same strip. This is particularly a concern in the US where the mains voltage is low, resulting in higher current for the same power draw. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BitMaster Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 vor 6 Stunden schrieb derneuemann: I'm an electrical designer and I'm very good with the information on power supplies. Maybe a reason why I stay away from pointlessly oversized hardware. That the OCP or OPP can only be triggered a limited number of times is more of a fairy tale. Or how often do we talk now. If, for example, 1000 - 10000 times is meant, that is conceivable, but irrelevant in practice. Normally, these are electrochemical processes that do not wear out. If 10-20 times is meant, then it is no more than half-knowledge. I don't know how that works with Chinese firecrackers and I don't even want to know... Because the whole thing has nothing to do with saving. But you are welcome to provide a source that proves this, then you can look at what exactly was said, tested and possibly misinterpreted. Of course, all this reflects only my experience and my level of knowledge. I really don't get why this reflects all your knowledge etc.... Anyway, your opinion is far off what most consider a safe approach to PSU sizing and I have no intention to argue with you. Let the reader decide which way to go. 1 Gigabyte Aorus X570S Master - Ryzen 5900X - Gskill 64GB 3200/CL14@3600/CL14 - Sapphire Nitro+ 7800XT - 4x Samsung 980Pro 1TB - 1x Samsung 870 Evo 1TB - 1x SanDisc 120GB SSD - Heatkiller IV - MoRa3-360LT@9x120mm Noctua F12 - Corsair AXi-1200 - TiR5-Pro - Warthog Hotas - Saitek Combat Pedals - Asus XG27ACG QHD 180Hz - Corsair K70 RGB Pro - Win11 Pro/Linux - Phanteks Evolv-X Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derneuemann Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 vor 1 Stunde schrieb BitMaster: I really don't get why this reflects all your knowledge etc.... Anyway, your opinion is far off what most consider a safe approach to PSU sizing and I have no intention to argue with you. Let the reader decide which way to go. When planning the system, you have to plan much more efficiently and nobody will plan unnecessarily bigger just to feel better. It's really just a matter of making it work, according to specifications. But yes, of course the reader decides, topic creator and has more than enough options. You can also go there and say for average consumers, max TDP of the GPU, CPU that are currently on the market, multiply by a factor of 1.5. So you are always safe for all later upgrades. Or the Max TDP, which you want to run at maximum yourself... Don't skimp on the power supply! I5 13400F, 32GB DDR5 6200 CL30, RTX4070ti Super 2x 1tb m.2 (PCIe4.0) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon1-1 Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 3 hours ago, derneuemann said: [...]and nobody will plan unnecessarily bigger just to feel better. Nobody will admit that they did, but reality might put a rain check on that one. You see that with cars, and you see that with computers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derneuemann Posted February 15, 2023 Share Posted February 15, 2023 vor 13 Stunden schrieb Dragon1-1: Nobody will admit that they did, but reality might put a rain check on that one. You see that with cars, and you see that with computers. Sorry, I don't quite understand what you want to say I5 13400F, 32GB DDR5 6200 CL30, RTX4070ti Super 2x 1tb m.2 (PCIe4.0) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BitMaster Posted February 15, 2023 Share Posted February 15, 2023 Humans always buy bigger, in simple terms. The „I want More „ syndrome i think that’s what he means 1 Gigabyte Aorus X570S Master - Ryzen 5900X - Gskill 64GB 3200/CL14@3600/CL14 - Sapphire Nitro+ 7800XT - 4x Samsung 980Pro 1TB - 1x Samsung 870 Evo 1TB - 1x SanDisc 120GB SSD - Heatkiller IV - MoRa3-360LT@9x120mm Noctua F12 - Corsair AXi-1200 - TiR5-Pro - Warthog Hotas - Saitek Combat Pedals - Asus XG27ACG QHD 180Hz - Corsair K70 RGB Pro - Win11 Pro/Linux - Phanteks Evolv-X Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grubenstein Posted February 15, 2023 Author Share Posted February 15, 2023 Thanks for all the advice all. Really comprehensive. Will watch vid on under volting etc and consider 3080 against 3060. Sounds like PSU should be OK notwithstanding the above. Sadly can't overclock cpu as mobo and bios won't let me. I have coolmaster liquid cooling as well which is a shame. Unless there us a way to do that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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