F-15E SECONDARY Air-to-Air Role

[FlankerKiller]

On 4/24/2023 at 7:56 AM, draconus said:

I think you should read previous pages as it is what was already talked about.

I think we should press them. I've been around F-15's my whole adult life. I've definitely seen the E model fly without the CFTs. I have no idea if it can support weapons on the fuselage, but they definitely can come off, and it can definitely fly without them. I kinda understand Razbam's reasons but it isn't a fantasy loadout. They can and do fly with the CFTs off. Even if only for functional test flights, it still happens regularly. We simulate wars of an intensity that wasn't seen for sixty years in DCS. It's hard to say what would and wouldn't be done. 

[Poptart]

4 hours ago, FlankerKiller said:

I think we should press them. I've been around F-15's my whole adult life. I've definitely seen the E model fly without the CFTs. I have no idea if it can support weapons on the fuselage, but they definitely can come off, and it can definitely fly without them. I kinda understand Razbam's reasons but it isn't a fantasy loadout. They can and do fly with the CFTs off. Even if only for functional test flights, it still happens regularly. We simulate wars of an intensity that wasn't seen for sixty years in DCS. It's hard to say what would and wouldn't be done. 

I think the issue is not that it has never been done and rather that it would take a significant amount of development time for a feature that is low on the priority list.

Edited July 9, 2023 by Poptart

[FlankerKiller]

Definitely, but eventually it will be developed. The main issue could be getting data for it. 

I've talked to Mud Hen pilots that have flow it in the tank less configuration, and they said it's an absolute rocket ship. 

Edited July 9, 2023 by FlankerKiller

[Njinsa]

Hardcore F-15 fan here, too.

Data is not a problem as a lot of info lies in -1 manuals. FM could be derived out of that.

Main issue is lack of SME experience in this particular loadout (or their opsec limitations) and level of guesswork Razbam decide to introduce in a product they feel should stay as realistic as possible.

FCF flights are regular but so far operational CAP sorties with live ammo without CFTS are yet to be confirmed.

 

If I may ask - what's the main driver behind this request ?

Lack of perspective for FF F-15A/C or BFM-ing ?

Edited July 9, 2023 by Njinsa

[western_JPN]

USAF Kadena AFB in Japan received F-15Es to replace aged F-15Cs working CAP -- A/A roles in this April.

https://www.airandspaceforces.com/kadena-more-f-15es/

[GGTharos]

3 hours ago, FlankerKiller said:

Definitely, but eventually it will be developed. The main issue could be getting data for it. 

I've talked to Mud Hen pilots that have flow it in the tank less configuration, and they said it's an absolute rocket ship. 

 

Removing the CFTs from an F-15E for air to air roles would be an act of desperation (ie. all of the dedicated air to air fighters are for some reason gone, or otherwise unavailable).  In DCS, it would just be standard.   I hope they don't remove them or at minimum make it server enforceable.

And yes, it is a rocket-ship...and like a rocket, it'll go fast going in a straight line more or less.  It still won't have F-15C performance.

Edited July 9, 2023 by GGTharos

[FlankerKiller]

1 hour ago, GGTharos said:

Removing the CFTs from an F-15E for air to air roles would be an act of desperation (ie. all of the dedicated air to air fighters are for some reason gone, or otherwise unavailable).  In DCS, it would just be standard.   I hope they don't remove them or at minimum make it server enforceable.

And yes, it is a rocket-ship...and like a rocket, it'll go fast going in a straight line more or less.  It still won't have F-15C performance.

 

You mean like when the whole F-15C fleet was grounded for fuselage cracking. I need to go see if those birds are still just sitting on the ramp. But yes it wouldn't trun like a C model. Hopefully we get a proper C at some point. But I suspect in a full scale war they would be thrown into the fry until air superiority was established. I more want it because it can be done. I've seen them fly without it. The unrestricted takeoff is ridiculous on a naked E model. Again I'm not looking for Air to Air. I don't even know if the fuselage can carry missiles. I want it because an F-15E can fly without the CFTs installed. Low priority for sure. But after it's mostly iornd out it would be a nice to have. 

[Horns]

23 hours ago, FlankerKiller said:

Definitely, but eventually it will be developed. The main issue could be getting data for it. 

I've talked to Mud Hen pilots that have flow it in the tank less configuration, and they said it's an absolute rocket ship. 

 

Have to disagree - the main issue is that Razbam were clear that creating a FM for the F-15E without CFTs is outside the scope of what they are willing to produce. It's not a question of barriers that might be broken down by changes in available information, resources or circumstances, they have made a conscious choice not to create it. If that changes in future that's great, and I'd love to see it, but until and unless they make an official announcement otherwise there's nothing to suggest we will ever get the Razbam F-15E without CFTs.

[FlankerKiller]

It's called a wish list. That's what it's for. If there is enough interest they might do it. But again I'm talking about after all the planned stuff is done. I've seen E models fly without the CFTs. For me it's about the F-15 I want to get as close to experiencing it as possible it was always my favorite jet. 

[draconus]

3 minutes ago, FlankerKiller said:

It's called a wish list.

We're in main F-15E subforum:  Home >English >Licensed Third Party Projects >RAZBAM F-15E 

6 minutes ago, FlankerKiller said:

For me it's about the F-15

Which one?

[FlankerKiller]

16 minutes ago, draconus said:

Which one?

The F-15. I've seen them stripped down to just the frame. They are essentially the same jet. I love the history behind the F-15. I spent twenty years around F-15s of all types. I was stationed at the same base as the F-15 depot. As a matter of fact watching the check flights is where I've seen E models fly without tanks. No watching the functional test flight dose no get old. 

[Horns]

6 hours ago, FlankerKiller said:

It's called a wish list. That's what it's for. If there is enough interest they might do it. But again I'm talking about after all the planned stuff is done. I've seen E models fly without the CFTs. For me it's about the F-15 I want to get as close to experiencing it as possible it was always my favorite jet. 

This isn't the wish list, but if you're just expressing a desire I have no issue with that, and FTR good luck  

[YoYo]

But in general, I will tell you that if someone was expecting some dogfight at a short distance, they were rather surprised ;). Even the MiG-21 can beat me (Veteran) guns/guns, 50% of fuel. In general, as a fighter, and as it was mentioned earlier, the best tactic is to run away and, above all, not to engage in a dogfight. Only long range with F-15E avionics advantage. Still with Su-17, 24, Mig-23, 27 gives advice, but do not fly too close to the rest. In turns, it loses energy quickly and even the MiG-21 will get your 6 (although here I think that the AI of the MiG-21 is exaggerated). 

[bfr]

2 hours ago, YoYo said:

But in general, I will tell you that if someone was expecting some dogfight at a short distance, they were rather surprised ;). Even the MiG-21 can beat me (Veteran) guns/guns, 50% of fuel. In general, as a fighter, and as it was mentioned earlier, the best tactic is to run away and, above all, not to engage in a dogfight. Only long range with F-15E avionics advantage. Still with Su-17, 24, Mig-23, 27 gives advice, but do not fly too close to the rest. In turns, it loses energy quickly and even the MiG-21 will get your 6 (although here I think that the AI of the MiG-21 is exaggerated). 

50% gas is still quite a lot of weight in this bird. I tried some scenarios against a Mig-21 a few days ago and didn't really feel like I had the edge in a tight dogfight unless I engaged at about 20% full.  Above that I was able to usually keep it from getting on my tail but we were basically flying around each other getting nowhere fast and waiting to see who ran out of gas first.

Edited July 15, 2023 by bfr

[Bananabrai]

On 7/15/2023 at 10:12 PM, bfr said:

I tried some scenarios against a Mig-21 a few days ago and didn't really feel like I had the edge in a tight dogfight

The AI MiG-21 is just crazy at the moment. The AI FM on that one really is o.p. in my opinion.

[bfr]

21 minutes ago, Bananabrai said:

The AI MiG-21 is just crazy at the moment. The AI FM on that one really is o.p. in my opinion.

Yeah, it does seem a bit superhuman (as do some of the other older red jets at higher experience levels)

[diego999]

Create a mission with an AI MiG-21 dogfighting another AI plane and watch it pulling 7-8-9 Gs sustained turns without even losing speed. Absolutely ridiculous. 

Sad thing is, the realistic flight model works very well. I've ripped my wings off while flying the MiG-21 trying to copy the maneuvers the AI MiG-21 does.

If you wanna test against old soviet fighters, MiG-23 or MiG-19 performance is at least believable.