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How to see locked targets on the helmet mounted sight?


Galwran

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So, I have a target IAT locked on the TEDAC. From the TSD I know that the target is about 7km out in the front left sector.

Is there are way for me to get a symbol on the helmet mounted sight, similar to the waypoint symbols? This would help with the situational awareness.

Is this possible for the CP/G or the PLT?

 

Also, when flying multiplayer, how does the pilot know how to line up with the target? 

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21 minutes ago, bradmick said:

Store the target, make the target your acquisition source. Now your cued LOS reticle is the point.

 

 

Uh oh, there are a lot of buttons to press. Would this be the best sequence: (assuming that TSD is displayed on the left MPD)

STORE (on the RHG)

Left MPD T5 to COORD

Left MPD L1-L6 to select T1-T6

RHG sight slave.

 

But this would only show the target point, not the target it self. So would not work for example for flying or moving targets.

 

If only the Apache designers had attended a lesson from the Hornet HMD/HUD designers...

 

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2 hours ago, Galwran said:

But this would only show the target point, not the target it self. So would not work for example for flying or moving targets.

If only the Apache designers had attended a lesson from the Hornet HMD/HUD designers...

Neither the AH-64, nor the F-18, are capable of "just knowing" where targets are. They are required to be detected. The F-18 can only display airborne targets that are either detected by its radar or received by Link16. The AH-64D has neither Link16 nor radar (for the time being).

If you have the TADS as the ACQ source in the back seat, it will show you where the IAT target is, or the target George is tracking, or where the TADS is pointing in general, just like if the the F18 targeting pod was pointed at a target. But setting the ACQ source to a target point like T01 is like setting it to a markpoint. Markpoints don't move with ground targets either.

In real-life, ground targets are almost always located visually as well, either optically using the eyes or electro-optically with sensor turrets. This is true regardless of what aircraft is being flown.

Afterburners are for wussies...hang around the battlefield and dodge tracers like a man.
DCS Rotor-Head

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7 hours ago, Raptor9 said:

Neither the AH-64, nor the F-18, are capable of "just knowing" where targets are. They are required to be detected. The F-18 can only display airborne targets that are either detected by its radar or received by Link16. The AH-64D has neither Link16 nor radar (for the time being).

If you have the TADS as the ACQ source in the back seat, it will show you where the IAT target is, or the target George is tracking, or where the TADS is pointing in general, just like if the the F18 targeting pod was pointed at a target. But setting the ACQ source to a target point like T01 is like setting it to a markpoint. Markpoints don't move with ground targets either.

In real-life, ground targets are almost always located visually as well, either optically using the eyes or electro-optically with sensor turrets. This is true regardless of what aircraft is being flown.

 

You misunderstood me. I was talkin about objects or points in space that are designated by me or on which a cursor of my avionics is on.

For example, on the Hornet's HUD/HMD it is trivial to see where the TGP is pointing, or which spot was designated by the HMD cursor. The forementioned trick on the Apache would require me to mark a spot just to see where the TEDAC is pointing, and that feels backwards and slow. And would work only on still point on the ground, not the locked target itself. Thus it would not work on for example fast vehicles or flying objects.

The issue here is that even though I see the target on TEDAC, it might be beneficial to also spot their whereabouts visually through the cockpit glass.

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2 hours ago, Galwran said:

The issue here is that even though I see the target on TEDAC, it might be beneficial to also spot their whereabouts visually through the cockpit glass.

It comes down to the fact that the Pilot is the crewmember responsible for maintaining overall awareness when the CPG is "looking through the soda straw." When the CPG is using the TADS, their focus is where the TADS is pointed in time and space, which is why they have the Heading Tape chevron, Field-Of-Regard box and the TSD to maintain situational awareness of where the sensor video they are looking at is in relation to their aircraft. If you are close enough to enemy aircraft or ground targets like tanks and armored vehicles where you are trying to visually keep track of them, you are probably too close and should be thinking about getting out of there to a safe distance, but that is of course the Pilot's job.

I get that this is a simulation and that often times we are flying by ourselves, but to understand why the systems are the way they are, or the way they aren't, it helps to understand how the different crewmember's have split responsibilities.

Afterburners are for wussies...hang around the battlefield and dodge tracers like a man.
DCS Rotor-Head

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The heading to where the tads is looking is represented by the /\ (open chevron) icon on the heading tape. You know at all times where it's looking, not only that, but you also have the sensor bearing on the TSD. If you need to look 'where the cursor is positioned' go POINT > STO and cursor select the map on the TSD, make that point your acquisition source, and voila, you're done. We've given you several options. Go practice with them, figure out which works. Every aircraft is pretty nuanced in how it operates, it's about learning those nuances and establishing a workflow that works best for you. Cool thing is, there's usually 2 to 3 ways to accomplish a singular task in the aircraft.

 

Addendum:

A good pilot will *always* have the TADS as their acquisition source so all they have to due is fly the helicopter to the cued LOS reticle. The cueing dots around the LOS will tell the pilot which direction to steer. ALL the SA tools are there. Not sure where the issue lies here. 


Edited by bradmick
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2 hours ago, bradmick said:

The cueing dots around the LOS will tell the pilot which direction to steer.

Yeah, this tool is absolutely amazing!

I guess what people are asking about and what I would also love to have is the ability for this exact same kind of symbology for the CP/G in regards to where the TADS is pointing. The Field of Regard box is a good helper, it just feels clumsy in comparison. Like, all the information is already available, but as I understand it, there just isn't an option for the CP/G to display this kind of pointer-symbology.

I just find it helps build and maintain SA immensely when I can actually look out the cockpit and see with ease and without even giving it a conscious thought where the TADS is currently aiming at.

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This is why good front seaters operate the tads with it slaves to GHS…so they are heads out and spatially aware of where to look “outside”…because  they’ve already “caged” there brain to “ look over your left shoulder”. Bad front seaters try and do everything with the tads alone. They also tend to get violently ill too (in the real bird anyway), because they never align their heads with the aircraft’s direction of travel. This is why the hdu video is super important….but most folks would rather turn that off…which is dumb.

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5 minutes ago, bradmick said:

This is why good front seaters operate the tads with it slaves to GHS…so they are heads out and spatially aware of where to look “outside”…because  they’ve already “caged” there brain to “ look over your left shoulder”.

I guess that takes a lot of practice to get it right.

In DCS at least I find it pretty easy to be heads out, slave TADS, go heads down, refine targeting in TDU, meanwhile the pilot maneuvers, and the next time I look outside, my SA is gone and I don't know anymore where the TADS is pointing.

Hog and Hornet make that part a lot easier with the TGP and/or SPI symbology always available in the HMCS.

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35 minutes ago, Yurgon said:

In DCS at least I find it pretty easy to be heads out, slave TADS, go heads down, refine targeting in TDU, meanwhile the pilot maneuvers, and the next time I look outside, my SA is gone and I don't know anymore where the TADS is pointing.

I think IRL you would have more SA as the front-seater while the aircraft is maneuvering.  Your peripheral vision, and the forces on your body, would tell you a lot about where you are now in relation to what you were just looking at a moment ago.  This doesn't translate to the sim world where you feel nothing, and have zero peripheral vision if you are zoomed all the way in to the TEDAC.


Edited by Floyd1212
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1 hour ago, Yurgon said:

Hog and Hornet make that part a lot easier with the TGP and/or SPI symbology always available in the HMCS.

Where I think most people tend to get into trouble is equating single-pilot aircraft with a two-pilot helicopter.

The idea with all that symbology is to help keep the single-pilot focused outside the aircraft because they are flying the aircraft. But the CPG's job is not to fly, it is focused on the sensors and the weapons. Think of it like the F-15E WSO. He doesn't have a JHMCS, but he has four displays in the backseat to allow him access to as much data as possible while the pilot flies the aircraft and maintains situational awareness around the aircraft out the window. The AH-64D CPG is the same thing, with 4 displays (2x MPDs, TDU, HDU), one of which, the HDU, he can maintain focus on while looking at any other items in the cockpit like the MPDs or the kneeboard.

Yes, the CPG should not ignore the visual scene out the window, and he can easily cue the TADS to where he is looking with his helmet, but again, comparing the AH-64D to "how the other single-pilot aircraft do it" is missing the point.

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Afterburners are for wussies...hang around the battlefield and dodge tracers like a man.
DCS Rotor-Head

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