w.i.p Hostile track changes to Suspect

[Comrade Doge]

Hello all, reporting some behaviour I've noticed following the latest update, I will keep it brief: when we have an uncorrelated (hollow) Hostile Link16 track and we spot it with the radar, it turns into a Suspect track (yellow filled). At first glance this does not look like correct behavior, as the FCR has no say in determining ROE and no reason to change it from Hostile to Suspect. No IFF was involved here,  just the mere painting of the target with the radar turns it into a Suspect. I'm sure many would appreciate if this could be taken a look at, if it's a bug, or WIP. Thanks and have a nice week

ROEchange.trk

[NineLine]

This is correct as is. 

If you want a hostile ROE, you require both a C2 hostile designation and a hostile NCTR print.

If there is only one ROE source, then it is suspect.

AIFF has no impact on ROE.

[_SteelFalcon_]

56 minutes ago, NineLine said:

This is correct as is. 

If you want a hostile ROE, you require both a C2 hostile designation and a hostile NCTR print.

If there is only one ROE source, then it is suspect.

AIFF has no impact on ROE.

Is it also correct, that friendly contacts turn from green to white when they enter the radar scan? Seems hard to believe and very risky

Edited March 20, 2023 by _SteelFalcon_

[Moonshine]

so, even with a C2 present, positively as hostile identified contacts still turn white upon being spotted with the own ship radar. how is that possible that a contact, identified by C2 as enemy (or friendly for that matter), shown red on DL suddenly loses all that info as soon as my radar sees him too?

for reference, i turn the radar to silent midway through and as soon as the hits time out, it returns to red symbology...

FCR_Color.trk

Edited March 20, 2023 by Moonshine

[Comrade Doge]

8 hours ago, NineLine said:

This is correct as is. 

If you want a hostile ROE, you require both a C2 hostile designation and a hostile NCTR print.

If there is only one ROE source, then it is suspect.

AIFF has no impact on ROE.

Thanks for the response. I have a few more questions regarding this behavior:

What you said would apply if the target has not been previously decided to be hostile, and in that case indeed there need to be further analysis to make it so. (Absence of absolute ID)

But in my case here, the ROE have already been met for a Hostile criteria, as a Hostile track is being shown by Link 16. This means that some donors on our net successfully met those ROE criteria, and marked it as a Hostile. 

The F16 has no reason to override such ROE with it's own, if it doesn't find conflicting information. But in this case, no such thing happened, the mere painting of the target with the FCR is enough to override ROE decisions, even though the Hostile nature of the target wasn't proven wrong by any system, or contested. 

I can PM over a few publicly available sources to back this up, if needed.

[skywalker22]

I have these kind of "issues" many many times online on PvP servers. At one point, contacts are designated as hostile targets, so they are colored red, and all of a suddwen they turn, from at least to me unknown reason, to yellow. When that happens I try to interrogate contacts with TMS Left (short), and, in lets say 50% cases, they turn back into red. If not, I just turn away, since I am not sure what I am shooting at (friend or foe).

That instant red to yellow color change it's kind of an annoying thing indeed. Not sure if is it a bug or not, but it definitely should need a 2nd look into the code what going on there.

[Moonshine]

i have no problem with it being shown as white / yellow in case there is no AWACS that has already identified said contact, hence a second source is needed to correlate the information, but i have a massive issue if something has been positively identified by AWACS as bandit, shown red and the very instant my radar spots that contact it immediately turns into a white square hence losing all previously correlated information to said contact. that can not and should not be a thing, imagine the chaos that this creates in a crowded airspace. if that would be the case, why even have an AWACS since his information gets lost anyways as soon as your own ship paints anything.

no other aircraft loses the DL info to a contact upon painting it with the own ship radar, putting the viper in a massive disadvantage in its current state and i fail to see why that would be a thing in real life for the viper but not for any other (western) AC with similar capabilities. and no i am not talking about "balance", this is a sim after all. 

Edited March 21, 2023 by Moonshine

[enyak]

ROE = Rules of Engagement.
This has nothing to do with a specific plane or FCR or L16 symbology, it is the rulebook that guides whether weapons employment is permitted or not during a mission. IFF and L16 may or may not factor into the rulebook that is currently employed.
Instead of the muddled usage of ROE in this thread I recommend referring to the FCR L16-symbology in question as L16-tracks.

That said I find the usage of NCTR as a required component of clearing L16-tracks via ownship FCR as friendly or hostile to be fishy, especially since aircraft type alone may or may not be a reliable indicator in a given theater. 

Edited March 21, 2023 by enyak

[Moonshine]

even the ED Viper manual (page 265) states how it is supposed to be, just the sim does not reflect this at its current state. further details are described in the M3

Edited March 21, 2023 by Moonshine