Mi-24P - What next ?

[Razorback]

On 4/13/2023 at 4:36 PM, admiki said:

Check again :))))

Got me too!

Yep indeed...
I am sure that I am not blind, so I cross cheched and indeed it was not mentioned on the initial message

The Mi-24P Hind part was added later (probably an initial omission)...

@BIGNEWYmaybe better to correct your initial message

Edited April 17, 2023 by Razorback

[Deimos]

 If so many want the Hind D why not a low fidelity Module for it ?

Wouldn´t it be a nice first one for newbies at DCS ?

[AeriaGloria]

1 hour ago, Deimos said:

 If so many want the Hind D why not a low fidelity Module for it ?

Wouldn´t it be a nice first one for newbies at DCS ?

It would be, but the V has the advantage of only changing the weapons panel for the pilot cockpit and the front cockpit. But engines would be the same. Also same weapons.
 

 In the D you would need new cockpit models for both CPG and pilot. You will have different ATGM system. And most D’s use older body style with wing mounted gun cam/RWR antennas, no dust protectors (though many were added aftermarket). The exhaust isn’t shaped for EVU. There’s quite a few more changes to make. 
 

Pilot doesn’t even aim with ASP-17V, but similar to PKI sight that CPG/Mi-8 use. So you have no CCIP, only tables. 

[randomTOTEN]

I think there's a very vocal minority of users that are asking for a D, or a VP, or any other version than our current P.

I think the developers would be making an error in assuming that these remarks represent the general thoughts here...

[Razorback]

When I was speaking for the Mi-24P roadmap like the Apache... By the way, thxxx to Waggs for the Apache update (late Mar 23)
I really hope to see the same for the Hind...
Why are there different priorities (even I am sure that more people have bought the Apache than the Hind) ?
The Hind was released several months before but we don't have a clue on what still needs to be implemented.

[BIGNEWY]

46 minutes ago, Razorback said:

When I was speaking for the Mi-24P roadmap like the Apache... By the way, thxxx to Waggs for the Apache update (late Mar 23)
I really hope to see the same for the Hind...
Why are there different priorities (even I am sure that more people have bought the Apache than the Hind) ?
The Hind was released several months before but we don't have a clue on what still needs to be implemented.

I will mention it to the team about a similar post, but can not promise

thank you

[Razorback]

5 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

I will mention it to the team about a similar post, but can not promise

thank you

Ohhhh, many thanks for your help @BIGNEWY...please keep us informed

[jubuttib]

On 3/31/2023 at 6:09 PM, Deimos said:

GPS device  (seen in Hind cockpits. mounted in place of the original map or close to the window)

Really wouldn't mind NS430 integration, like in the Hip!

[Logan54]

@BIGNEWY In real Mi-24P documentation mentioned about using L006LM. Why ED hiding to realise it? Is this super weapon as AIM-120C or 9X? Also a lot of Mi-24P with L006LM photos with russian board numbers that used as Ministy of Defence, so as Ministry of Internal Affairs. What the main reason of ED`s decision not to include it?

Edited April 22, 2023 by Logan54

[AeriaGloria]

13 hours ago, Logan54 said:

@BIGNEWY In real Mi-24P documentation mentioned about using L006LM. Why ED hiding to realise it? Is this super weapon as AIM-120C or 9X? Also a lot of Mi-24P with L006LM photos with russian board numbers that used as Ministy of Defence, so as Ministry of Internal Affairs. What the main reason of ED`s decision not to include it?

 

~~ED has said since release in interviews and wishlists that they will not model the L006 Lipa becuase there are no older MANPADS that it will work on in game. Until we have things like Red Eye and original Strela, there is no point. 
 

We do have some air to air missiles in game that it would work on, but again that is very little difference for 98% of Hind missions, so it won’t be a priority for ED until those older SAMs also become a priority. 

 

If you look at pictures of Russian Hinds, the L006 Lipa has been removed in all 24P models. It was removed becuase it was dead weight unless your opponent has a 40 year old MANPAD. 
 

Ukraine is a bit different becuase they have also updated their L006 Lipa to handle newer missiles. Who knows how well it works, but that is why you might see a similar device in Ukraine 24P, but the Russian 24P will look just like our DCS counterpart, with an empty L006 mount~~
 

I was wrong 

Edited April 22, 2023 by AeriaGloria

[Logan54]

2 часа назад, AeriaGloria сказал:

ED has said since release in interviews and wishlists that they will not model the L006 Lipa becuase there are no older MANPADS that it will work on in game. Until we have things like Red Eye and original Strela, there is no point. 
 

We do have some air to air missiles in game that it would work on, but again that is very little difference for 98% of Hind missions, so it won’t be a priority for ED until those older SAMs also become a priority. 

 

If you look at pictures of Russian Hinds, the L006 Lipa has been removed in all 24P models. It was removed becuase it was dead weight unless your opponent has a 40 year old MANPAD. 
 

Ukraine is a bit different becuase they have also updated their L006 Lipa to handle newer missiles. Who knows how well it works, but that is why you might see a similar device in Ukraine 24P, but the Russian 24P will look just like our DCS counterpart, with an empty L006 mount. 

 

L006LM its not "Lipa"this is "Beryoza" RWR, its mounted left and right near the engines, "Beryoza" in use on russian Hinds and there info in operating instruction about it. Lipa is L-166

Edited April 22, 2023 by Logan54

[AeriaGloria]

5 hours ago, Logan54 said:

L006LM its not "Lipa"this is "Beryoza" RWR, its mounted left and right near the engines, "Beryoza" in use on russian Hinds and there info in operating instruction about it. Lipa is L-166

 

my bad, I want a Beryoza so bad

Edited April 22, 2023 by AeriaGloria

[admiki]

I would love to have SPO-15, "but it's not realistic!" gang be damned

[AeriaGloria]

On 4/22/2023 at 12:04 PM, admiki said:

I would love to have SPO-15, "but it's not realistic!" gang be damned

 

On 4/22/2023 at 4:56 AM, Logan54 said:

L006LM its not "Lipa"this is "Beryoza" RWR, its mounted left and right near the engines, "Beryoza" in use on russian Hinds and there info in operating instruction about it. Lipa is L-166

 

One sad thing I thought of is that, I do not know where vertical SPO-15 antennas are in Mi-24. Which makes me wonder if… Like ground crew taking off ASO-2V covers and the rear SPO-10 Antennas with it, perhaps it was seen as “agreeable” to not give it the vertical antennas that feed your up/down arrows. But I’m sure this can be disproven with the right manual or video showing the lights working 

[Logan54]

1 час назад, AeriaGloria сказал:

 

One sad thing I thought of is that, I do not know where vertical SPO-15 antennas are in Mi-24. Which makes me wonder if… Like ground crew taking off ASO-2V covers and the rear SPO-10 Antennas with it, perhaps it was seen as “agreeable” to not give it the vertical antennas that feed your up/down arrows. But I’m sure this can be disproven with the right manual or video showing the lights working 

Usually, I m not waiting jets below me, because I hold 10meters or so)

[ollk22]

On 3/29/2023 at 2:28 PM, AeriaGloria said:

The bombing system is fully implemented. The timers work and the sight can be depressed 30 degrees. What’s missing for employment is bomb drop tables for CPG. If you want the ones for 250 kmh, you can find them in my weapons guide. Someone pointed out recently that since the charts indicate -3 degrees pitch at 250 kmh, you have to add/subtract the difference to your sight depression 

Are all the sites and HUD systems fully operational now? Including the backup for copilot?

 

[AeriaGloria]

5 hours ago, ollk22 said:

Are all the sites and HUD systems fully operational now? Including the backup for copilot?

 

Yes, they all work as they should. The PKI sight for the CPG can be set to its full elevation range for any bombing task you might find described in the manuals. The timers work.  The timer light

[randomTOTEN]

There are some minor bugs with the ASP-17V Pilot/Commander sight, but otherwise it appears to be fully functional.

[Razorback]

On 4/17/2023 at 12:01 PM, BIGNEWY said:

I will mention it to the team about a similar post, but can not promise

thank you

Hi Bignewy,
So, it's almost a month later...did you receive an answer or a comment of the Alexander's team regarding a possible agenda for the Hind ?
Everything that was announced for the Apache for April and May 23 has now a nice video from Wags while for the Hind we are still in the dark regarding the calendar...
Thx a lot,

[Minhal]

Lots of keybinds still missing i think. Always using Munkwolfs Community Keybinds mod so i do not really know what keybinds are actually missing without this mod. Would be cool if these would be quite at the top of the list - especailly important ones like the Autopilot Altitude Control up and down switches.

[AeriaGloria]

2 minutes ago, Minhal said:

Lots of keybinds still missing i think. Always using Munkwolfs Community Keybinds mod so i do not really know what keybinds are actually missing without this mod. Would be cool if these would be quite at the top of the list - especailly important ones like the Autopilot Altitude Control up and down switches.

I would like to have those and the autopilot knobs bindable. They are bindable in DCS BIOS. Are you using the up/down test switch for barometric altitude hold as a temporary gain/lower altitude switch? 

[Minhal]

15 minutes ago, AeriaGloria said:

I would like to have those and the autopilot knobs bindable. They are bindable in DCS BIOS. Are you using the up/down test switch for barometric altitude hold as a temporary gain/lower altitude switch? 

Please correct me if i am wrong, as you got way more insight into the Hind systems. As far as i understand it, this is how it is supposed to work or? Like the other autopilot channel knobs to its left to correct the channels. Did not really use it though since it is not bindable.

The Autopilot knobs are bindable with Munkwolfs mod btw. but only as buttons, not axis sadly.

Edited May 15, 2023 by Minhal

[AeriaGloria]

2 hours ago, Minhal said:

Please correct me if i am wrong, as you got way more insight into the Hind systems. As far as i understand it, this is how it is supposed to work or? Like the other autopilot channel knobs to its left to correct the channels. Did not really use it though since it is not bindable.

The Autopilot knobs are bindable with Munkwolfs mod btw. but only as buttons, not axis sadly.

 

  I would certianly love to play with those knobs! From a “this is how it’s meant to be used” standpoint you can safely ignore the knobs and altitude switch, they are used only in a testing procedure before take off  
 

  When starting up, there is an autopilot testing procedure. You move the cyclic left/right, and see if the pitch/roll channel follows your input. It instructs you to also move the roll knob and see if it reflects the channel, then press trim to center it. Oddly it doesn’t say to do this for pitch, but there is no reason you couldn’t.
 

Then after that You move the yaw channel knob to make sure the spindle window moves to make sure the yaw channel works. To test the altitude channel, you move the switch on it up and down. If the spindle deflection window moves up and down you can be sure it works.

  After that, manual/documentation mentions only using on/off buttons, AP disengage, trim button, and pedal microswitches to control auto pilot. 
 

 As mentioned, I think the altitude switch can be useful for lowering/raising your height temporarily, but lately I have just set my altitude hold to need 9% collective movement to turn off. So I can just move the collective a bit to do the same thing more precisely, and I chose 9% becuase that’s the authority the AP system has in one direction. 
 

  There are times I want to make small changes to autopilot without re trimming, so maybe I will download that mod and bind some buttons to those knobs. Thanks for letting me know the mod allows that!! 

Edited May 15, 2023 by AeriaGloria

[Minhal]

On 5/15/2023 at 11:34 PM, AeriaGloria said:

  I would certianly love to play with those knobs! From a “this is how it’s meant to be used” standpoint you can safely ignore the knobs and altitude switch, they are used only in a testing procedure before take off  
 

  When starting up, there is an autopilot testing procedure. You move the cyclic left/right, and see if the pitch/roll channel follows your input. It instructs you to also move the roll knob and see if it reflects the channel, then press trim to center it. Oddly it doesn’t say to do this for pitch, but there is no reason you couldn’t.
 

Then after that You move the yaw channel knob to make sure the spindle window moves to make sure the yaw channel works. To test the altitude channel, you move the switch on it up and down. If the spindle deflection window moves up and down you can be sure it works.

  After that, manual/documentation mentions only using on/off buttons, AP disengage, trim button, and pedal microswitches to control auto pilot. 
 

 As mentioned, I think the altitude switch can be useful for lowering/raising your height temporarily, but lately I have just set my altitude hold to need 9% collective movement to turn off. So I can just move the collective a bit to do the same thing more precisely, and I chose 9% becuase that’s the authority the AP system has in one direction. 
 

  There are times I want to make small changes to autopilot without re trimming, so maybe I will download that mod and bind some buttons to those knobs. Thanks for letting me know the mod allows that!! 

 

Ah, see. Been misinterpreting those knobs and switches then. Thought they work more like those in the Hip, where you constantly operate them to make adjustments. Would yet be cool to have all the bindings, even if usage is more fluff than necessary (since in DCS there are no real consequenses to not do all the testing).

For the altitude change, i thought of it to make more fine adjustments with the switch (but as i understand it, this would be a DCSism and not along the real procedures). In the real thing afaik the collective clutch brake keeps you from moving the collective at all. When you depress it, you can move the collective and also the alt AP is shortly deactivated to adjust altitude? Cheers for letting me know about the test procedure. Just testing the 9% settings for the collective, might be a cool thing as i do not have a clutch set up i controls.

For the mod, if you did not find it already: you need the keybindings which go into user files. And then Quaggles injector, which goes into the install folder and overwrites a default file - so got to move it over after each update again. These mods are really useful, could not imagine to go without anymore. Adding a lot of buttons, switches and axis for pretty much all modules in DCS. All IC compatible.

https://github.com/Munkwolf/dcs-community-keybinds

https://github.com/Quaggles/dcs-input-command-injector

[AeriaGloria]

1 hour ago, Minhal said:

Ah, see. Been misinterpreting those knobs and switches then. Thought they work more like those in the Hip, where you constantly operate them to make adjustments. Would yet be cool to have all the bindings, even if usage is more fluff than necessary (since in DCS there are no real consequenses to not do all the testing).

For the altitude change, i thought of it to make more fine adjustments with the switch (but as i understand it, this would be a DCSism and not along the real procedures). In the real thing afaik the collective clutch brake keeps you from moving the collective at all. When you depress it, you can move the collective and also the alt AP is shortly deactivated to adjust altitude? Cheers for letting me know about the test procedure. Just testing the 9% settings for the collective, might be a cool thing as i do not have a clutch set up i controls.

For the mod, if you did not find it already: you need the keybindings which go into user files. And then Quaggles injector, which goes into the install folder and overwrites a default file - so got to move it over after each update again. These mods are really useful, could not imagine to go without anymore. Adding a lot of buttons, switches and axis for pretty much all modules in DCS. All IC compatible.

https://github.com/Munkwolf/dcs-community-keybinds

https://github.com/Quaggles/dcs-input-command-injector

The reason the knobs are used for constant/fine adjustments in Mi-8 and not in Mi-24 are two fold 

1. we do not have a third crew member in Mi-24 that can have both hands on AP panel 

2. The trim button performs the identical function that the flight engineer would do in Mi-8. In Mi-8 the flight engineer moves the knobs until the autopilot is perfectly centered. This way you always have max AP authority. But in Mi-24 trim button disables AP and then resets AP to center, doing the same thing in a way the pilot can control. So you dont need them becuase the trim button is how you’re going to adjust pitch/roll channels. And be careful becuase trim hat won’t affect AP, only trim button  

 

From my reading it seems the sim might be just like real life, if clutch brake removed and/or collective moved, the Altitude channel is disabled permanently and would need to be turned back on with a button push. Atleast that’s how I interpret the real documentation 

In reality you can move collective with the clutch brake, but with only lots of force. With clutch activated it takes 45-55 lbs to move the collective, with clutch released it takes only 3.3 lbs of force. Of course in DCS this is simulated as not being able to move it with the couch brake on