Any plan for the map of Vietnam?

[PLAAF]

Since you guys are making this, I just have to ask, is there a plan for the map of vietnam?

Also, any chance we can get "Fortunate sons" as the main menu music for F-4 module? 

 

 

Edited March 30, 2023 by PLAAF

[Silver_Dragon]

Hetblur has no a map team, by now, we dont expected a vietnam map with the F-4E

[PLAAF]

2 minutes ago, Silver_Dragon said:

Hetblur has no a map team, by now, we dont expected a vietnam map with the F-4E

Bummer

[Trooper117]

If ever a map was needed in DCS, it's the Vietnam map... we have a few aircraft that we can use on it already, plus others inbound... please someone, make it happen  

Edited March 30, 2023 by Trooper117

[Stackup]

I thought Nineline or someone else on the ED team had said something to the effect that ED was planning or wanting to do it, but they have to wait on core improvements and optimizations so performance isn't tanked by the sheer amount of trees among other problems.  Maybe I misheard that as it wasn't an official announcment or anything, just a vague statement of future plans.  Vietnam would be an awesome map to get, but Heatblur doesn't make maps and I'd rather see them finish up their current roster of planned aircraft like the early F-14, F-4 variants, and the A-6.  From ED's side, it'd be nice to get the napalm effects slated to come with the MK 77 firebombs after the F-18 exits early access so we can see napalm on upcoming modules such as the F-4, F-100, and A-1 as it seems like that would be way simpler of a task than a Vietnam map.

[NineLine]

Its been said that its a matter of when not if. We are waiting for our Terrain SDK to mature enough to do it properly and to the best ability. We are not going to announce it until its happening for obvious reasons. I cant imagine DCS World to never dip its toes in that region though for sure. 

[Omega417]

We could always ask HB to delay the Phantom a few years so they get released together.

Any takers on that proposal?

[_BringTheReign_]

37 minutes ago, NineLine said:

Its been said that its a matter of when not if. We are waiting for our Terrain SDK to mature enough to do it properly and to the best ability.

Thanks NineLine! Going to be a dream come true, whenever it comes!

[303_Kermit]

3 hours ago, PLAAF said:

Since you guys are making this, I just have to ask, is there a plan for the map of vietnam?

Also, any chance we can get "Fortunate sons" as the main menu music for F-4 module? 

 

 

 

I love the idea  I reserve CCR for Navy F-4 and Gimme Shelter for USAF F-4

I really feel "sympathy for the devil" &  F-4 'Nam community

 

[Hayrake YE-ZB]

4 hours ago, Stackup said:

From ED's side, it'd be nice to get the napalm effects slated to come with the MK 77 firebombs after the F-18 exits early access so we can see napalm on upcoming modules such as the F-4, F-100, and A-1 as it seems like that would be way simpler of a task than a Vietnam map.

What Napalm effects? Like people burning, suffering, dying horrible deaths or being maimed for life? I’m here for the F4, but I can do without napalm mate.

[Stackup]

1 hour ago, Hayrake YE-ZB said:

What Napalm effects? Like people burning, suffering, dying horrible deaths or being maimed for life? I’m here for the F4, but I can do without napalm mate.

Uh, the visual effects for the Mk 77 firebomb as stated in the Roadmap for the DCS F/A-18C Hornet.

This was a thread about a Vietnam map.  The F-4 verifiably dropped napalm on missions during the Vietnam War as did many other aircraft.  Are the effects on people who get hit horrible? Yes, they are and I'm not saying they aren't.  I am in no way advocating for the continued real world use of napalm.  I merely stated that I would like to see the effect completed for DCS.

This is a combat flight sim.  When we fly and shoot missiles, rockets, and guns or drop bombs, we kill pixels on a screen.  Are the AI any worse off if they get hit by a cluster bomb or a 30mm cannon round than they would be if they were caught in a napalm strike?  No.  They are not real people suffering real world injuries and they most certainly can't feel pain or be maimed for life because again, they are not real and closing the mission kills them just as much as any virtual weapon.

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

7 hours ago, Hayrake YE-ZB said:

What Napalm effects? Like people burning, suffering, dying horrible deaths or being maimed for life? I’m here for the F4, but I can do without napalm mate.

Hope you don't use Rockeyes, then.

 

[Trooper117]

Maybe we should just stop using any kind of ordnance then, just fly around and enjoy the scenery... because any kind of weapon system an aircraft uses deals out death in many different horrific ways.

Whether it's guns, missiles, bombs or rockets and napalm, they are all nasty bits of kit... but wait, I hope we don't hurt the pixel enemy too much!

[Gunfreak]

6 hours ago, MiG21bisFishbedL said:

Hope you don't use Rockeyes, then.

 

I would argue napalm is worse. Tho it's all about degrees of horror and suffering. It is however rather silly to care about the effects of napalm on a few polygons.

I hope a Vietnam map will come before I'm too old and decrepit to fly DCS. But there is much more needed to  be done besides the map.

Huey needs a major update.

Working embarking and disembarking troops from helicopters with models of troops in the back.

Well made Vietnam infantry. 

Fixing splash damage on bullets, rockets and bombs.

 

To name but a few.

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

3 hours ago, Gunfreak said:

I would argue napalm is worse. Tho it's all about degrees of horror and suffering. It is however rather silly to care about the effects of napalm on a few polygons.

I hope a Vietnam map will come before I'm too old and decrepit to fly DCS. But there is much more needed to  be done besides the map.

Huey needs a major update.

Working embarking and disembarking troops from helicopters with models of troops in the back.

Well made Vietnam infantry. 

Fixing splash damage on bullets, rockets and bombs.

 

To name but a few.

Truth.

A Vietnam map would really be a Southeast Asia map. We're talking a collection of nations in the same kind of proximity as the Balkans. It'd probably end up the ultimate test for everyone involved. MT was a definite hurdle we needed to cross, but there are still a few to go.

[Guest]

23 hours ago, Hayrake YE-ZB said:

What Napalm effects? Like people burning, suffering, dying horrible deaths or being maimed for life? I’m here for the F4, but I can do without napalm mate.

Yeah just like that, same with the nukes. I want to see skeletons after their flesh has burnt of. Do you think it is a pretty sight when someone gets a 500lbs bomb detonate close to them? People burning inside vehicles and so on?

[Dragon1-1]

6 hours ago, MiG21bisFishbedL said:

Truth.

A Vietnam map would really be a Southeast Asia map. We're talking a collection of nations in the same kind of proximity as the Balkans. It'd probably end up the ultimate test for everyone involved. MT was a definite hurdle we needed to cross, but there are still a few to go.

If we want all the missions that were flown in Vietnam, the map would have to stretch at least from Udon in Thailand (and in fact, we can't have Vietnam without that, as that was the home of the Wolfpack) to Gulf of Tonkin, that's about 600km, and then you need both Hanoi and Saigon (complete with the US embassy, to land a Huey on top of), that's 1500km. So, an area 1500x600km to properly cover the conflict, and unlike, say, South Atlantic map, that'd be almost all land, much of it densely forested, I might add. We're talking Marianas level of vegetation. Even if we leave out CCK in Taiwan, where long range aircraft were based, it's still going to be one heck of a map. 

31 minutes ago, Razor68 said:

Do you think it is a pretty sight when someone gets a 500lbs bomb detonate close to them?

Well, it's not much of a sight at all, given that 500lbs of explosive mostly leaves a great big crater and a lot of small pieces scattered about. At larger distances, they're not that much worse than bullets or grenades.

Napalm has more tactical uses than nukes do, it's more like CBUs in that regard. Any weapon is bad when used indiscriminately. On a related note, I'd really love if WP smoke rockets did damage to infantry, IRL there had been a few instances of them being used that way, particularly by FACs in Vietnam, who didn't have much else to shoot back with. Those can also be really nasty if misused (although there's hardly a better way to quickly make a huge smoke plume).

[RevampedGrunt]

9 hours ago, MiG21bisFishbedL said:

Truth.

A Vietnam map would really be a Southeast Asia map. We're talking a collection of nations in the same kind of proximity as the Balkans. It'd probably end up the ultimate test for everyone involved. MT was a definite hurdle we needed to cross, but there are still a few to go.

Thinking of that, I wonder if Cambodia, Laos, and Nam would be all on the map or if they'd only focus on a part of Vietnam. It's interesting to think about how they would approach a Vietnam map. If Laos was included, you have the most heavily bombed country in the world, which I imagine would lead to a ton of missions for the various aircraft we have. 

[Biggus]

Can't do a reasonable Vietnam War map without including Cambodia, Laos, both South and North Vietnam, some parts of Thailand and probably some of China unless you're happy skip the more interesting and significant campaigns of the air war.

That's a truly massive area, and even if we have destructible foliage tomorrow without any performance penalty, it's going to be a long time before commonly available consumer hardware will be able to run it adequately.

[PLAAF]

13 hours ago, Razor68 said:

Yeah just like that, same with the nukes. I want to see skeletons after their flesh has burnt of. Do you think it is a pretty sight when someone gets a 500lbs bomb detonate close to them? People burning inside vehicles and so on?

You need help.

[Elf1606688794]

On 3/30/2023 at 4:35 PM, Hayrake YE-ZB said:

What Napalm effects? Like people burning, suffering, dying horrible deaths or being maimed for life? I’m here for the F4, but I can do without napalm mate.

Snake and nape loadouts were common on Phantoms that were doing close air support in 'Nam.

 

On 3/30/2023 at 12:32 PM, Omega417 said:

We could always ask HB to delay the Phantom a few years so they get released together.

Any takers on that proposal?

17 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

Well, it's not much of a sight at all, given that 500lbs of explosive mostly leaves a great big crater and a lot of small pieces scattered about.

If I remember correctly only about 40% of the weight of iron bombs is actual explosives so a Mk 82 would be about 200 lbs of explosive and the rest is potential shrapnel.

[Kalasnkova74]

On 3/30/2023 at 4:35 PM, Hayrake YE-ZB said:

What Napalm effects? Like people burning, suffering, dying horrible deaths or being maimed for life? I’m here for the F4, but I can do without napalm mate.

These are simulations of combat aircraft. The F-4s were not sent to combat to deliver flowers. 

[A10Yoda]

2 hours ago, Kalasnkova74 said:

These are simulations of combat aircraft. The F-4s were not sent to combat to deliver flowers. 

One would argue the atomic plume looked like cauli-'flower'..

[Silver_Dragon]

On 3/31/2023 at 1:07 PM, Gunfreak said:

I would argue napalm is worse. Tho it's all about degrees of horror and suffering. It is however rather silly to care about the effects of napalm on a few polygons.

Meanwhile Napalm efects has planned by ED, need build on FumeFX by FumeFX techinicals. Dont expected a agony, horror an suffering, only a very realistic mapalm effect.

Some examples:

https://youtu.be/f7xBkjDEcHk

[CoyoteEffect]

On 3/30/2023 at 2:35 PM, Hayrake YE-ZB said:

What Napalm effects? Like people burning, suffering, dying horrible deaths or being maimed for life? I’m here for the F4, but I can do without napalm mate.

You can find videos of napalm bombs going off as opposed to videos of GBU-12s going off and notice how much more spectacular/Hollywood-ified they are (since they're fire explosions, not normal ones)