F-14A/B Flight Model Tuning - Guided Discussion

[captain_dalan]

12 hours ago, draconus said:

It isn't (for Tomcat) - I was refering to that.

That's why i try to distinguish between DCS burble and F-14 burble
What about my original question?

EDIT: ....hmmm, maybe they plan to something similar like the burble as in turn it on when flying some planes, off for others?

Edited April 3, 2023 by captain_dalan

[Oberst Struppi]

What will happen to the future FM of the F14B?

What we did during dogfighting was to disable roll SAS, and use the advantage of full flaps and high AOA at low speeds.

Right at the moment the heavy wing rocking makes it almost impossible to place your gun pipper properly.
Is this behaviour going to stay? 

Edited April 4, 2023 by Oberst Struppi

[fat creason]

4 hours ago, Oberst Struppi said:

What will happen to the future FM of the F14B?

What we did during dogfighting was to disable roll SAS, and use the advantage of full flaps and high AOA at low speeds.

Right at the moment the heavy wing rocking makes it almost impossible to place your gun pipper properly.
Is this behaviour going to stay? 

 

F-14B FM update is coming next OB. Wing rock has always been part of the model, yes it's going to stay. The Yaw SAS was updated and became "too good", preventing it from happening. The F-4 will wing rock as well.

Edited April 4, 2023 by fat creason

[lunaticfringe]

10 minutes ago, fat creason said:

F-14B FM update is coming next OB. Wing rock has always been part of the model, yes it's going to stay. The Yaw SAS was updated and became "too good", preventing it from happening. The F-4 will wing rock as well.

For those about to rock- we salute you. 

[fat creason]

12 minutes ago, lunaticfringe said:

For those about to rock- we salute you. 

[Scotia]

Question, why are y’all making the upcoming AoA shake optional? Will it just change visual indications or will it have an affect on handling the aircraft?

Also, to address an earlier question, is is the Tomcat excluded yet from the ED optional jet wash/burple setting? 

[fat creason]

13 minutes ago, Scotia said:

Question, why are y’all making the upcoming AoA shake optional? Will it just change visual indications or will it have an affect on handling the aircraft?

Also, to address an earlier question, is is the Tomcat excluded yet from the ED optional jet wash/burple setting? 

The AOA buffet shake is going to be an opt-in checkbox because I have a feeling a large amount of people will come here to complain that they're used to the old version. Maybe I could reverse it and make the "old" AOA buffet be the opt-in option. ED jet wash/burble model does not apply to the F-14 because we implemented our own before ED created theirs and we were happy with it after working together with our SMEs to create it.

[draconus]

24 minutes ago, fat creason said:

The AOA buffet shake is going to be an opt-in checkbox because I have a feeling a large amount of people will come here to complain that they're used to the old version. Maybe I could reverse it and make the "old" AOA buffet be the opt-in option.

One of HB guys admitted some time ago that the amount of shake is a bit overdone for the sake of more visual feedback because of lack of seat-of-the-pants feeling. I thought the new option will give us the real amount and that I would wish.

[Scotia]

35 minutes ago, fat creason said:

The AOA buffet shake is going to be an opt-in checkbox because I have a feeling a large amount of people will come here to complain that they're used to the old version. Maybe I could reverse it and make the "old" AOA buffet be the opt-in option. ED jet wash/burble model does not apply to the F-14 because we implemented our own before ED created theirs and we were happy with it after working together with our SMEs to create it.

My understanding from a Heatblur staff post was that ED needed to make some changes to jet wash that they had made for the burple and having that activated on a server could double the wash effect on a Tomcat.
 

3 minutes ago, draconus said:

One of HB guys admitted some time ago that the amount of shake is a bit overdone for the sake of more visual feedback because of lack of seat-of-the-pants feeling. I thought the new option will give us the real amount and that I would wish.

I'm generally in favor of a universal experience if possible.  

[fat creason]

46 minutes ago, Scotia said:

My understanding from a Heatblur staff post was that ED needed to make some changes to jet wash that they had made for the burple and having that activated on a server could double the wash effect on a Tomcat.
 

I'm generally in favor of a universal experience if possible.  

The AOA buffet change was from a recommendation by our pilot SME. It will be more like a step function and has slightly decreased amplitude. I'll post another FM update closer to the patch date. As for the jet wash/burble, it may have been bugged in the past; sometimes resulting in both implementations adding together on servers, but my understanding is that has been fixed.

[Scotia]

1 hour ago, fat creason said:

The AOA buffet change was from a recommendation by our pilot SME. It will be more like a step function and has slightly decreased amplitude. I'll post another FM update closer to the patch date. As for the jet wash/burble, it may have been bugged in the past; sometimes resulting in both implementations adding together on servers, but my understanding is that has been fixed.

That’s good to hear about the turbulence and the burble!

Looking forward to the update and reading about it! Thanks for your work on this!

Are y’all shooting for the ground handling to be in this upcoming update as well, or should we expect that in a later patch?

 

[fat creason]

Ground handling won't make it for this one unfortunately.

[draconus]

8 hours ago, fat creason said:

The AOA buffet change was from a recommendation by our pilot SME. It will be more like a step function and has slightly decreased amplitude.

So I correctly assumed it'll be more realistic.

[Dannyvandelft]

Ground handling won't make it for this one unfortunately.

What does ground handling mean? Like, how it taxis?

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[draconus]

42 minutes ago, Dannyvandelft said:

What does ground handling mean? Like, how it taxis?

Yes. How it brakes, how much thrust needed to move, how it dances on pitching deck...

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

13 hours ago, fat creason said:

Maybe I could reverse it and make the "old" AOA buffet be the opt-in option.

Wouldn’t that be preferable? Make the more realistic approach default, and allow users to use the old model if they do wish?

[cheezit]

20 hours ago, fat creason said:

The AOA buffet change was from a recommendation by our pilot SME. It will be more like a step function and has slightly decreased amplitude. I'll post another FM update closer to the patch date. As for the jet wash/burble, it may have been bugged in the past; sometimes resulting in both implementations adding together on servers, but my understanding is that has been fixed.

 

Is the rapid onset/more-of-a-step-than-a-ramp because the AoA is either

a) high enough that the vortex created by the wing glove is hitting the tails

or

b) low enough that the vortex created by the wing glove doesn't hit the tails

without much in between?

 

If that's the case, do altitude, mach number, IAS, etc. affect the amplitude?

 

 

Also: I hope Victory205 is well.  It was great having him on the forum.  Looking at his last post date I'm guessing he's probably been off the forums due to force majeure rather than (understandably) getting tired of dealing with us sim nitwits, though I don't want to derail the thread with speculation of that sort.

[WarthogOsl]

11 hours ago, draconus said:

Yes. How it brakes, how much thrust needed to move, how it dances on pitching deck...

I'd expect it will no longer taxi like the tires are made of melting marshmallows.  Presumably the addition of wheel chalks allowed this.

[IronMike]

On 4/5/2023 at 7:22 PM, cheezit said:

Also: I hope Victory205 is well.  It was great having him on the forum.  Looking at his last post date I'm guessing he's probably been off the forums due to force majeure rather than (understandably) getting tired of dealing with us sim nitwits, though I don't want to derail the thread with speculation of that sort.

 

Victory205 is doing well, thank you for asking. As for why he posts less on forums these days is not my place to answer. My guess is simply that he's enjoying his life with family and friends, as he well deserves.

Edited April 7, 2023 by IronMike

[Maxthrust]

On 4/5/2023 at 5:10 AM, draconus said:

Yes. How it brakes, how much thrust needed to move, how it dances on pitching deck...

hb just don’t have the expertise to model it properly. That’s also why they keep “fixing” the same stuff over and over. 

[Cobra847]

2 hours ago, Maxthrust said:

hb just don’t have the expertise to model it properly. That’s also why they keep “fixing” the same stuff over and over. 

...If you say so.

[Despayre]

1 hour ago, Cobra847 said:

...If you say so.

Why haven't you hired that guy, he's obviously the answer to any problems you're currently working on! </sarcasm>

[WarthogOsl]

They need to find an SME who has experience with carriers that bounce around like bucking broncos when making a turn.

[Maxthrust]

3 hours ago, Despayre said:

Why haven't you hired that guy, he's obviously the answer to any problems you're currently working on! </sarcasm>

He can’t afford me. 

[RaisedByWolves]

On 4/8/2023 at 7:41 PM, Maxthrust said:

He can’t afford me. 

If and when HB decides to pay SME in anal beads, Im sure they can afford you.