correct as is Hornet Radar TDC Slew

[markom]

That would work perfectly if slew speed was updated everywhere. But it hasn't been - it has been updated in a single context of where TDC input is used. That makes a problem, because for many of us, it's just way too fast as-is.

[MARLAN_]

4 minutes ago, markom said:

That would work perfectly if slew speed was updated everywhere. But it hasn't been - it has been updated in a single context of where TDC input is used. That makes a problem, because for many of us, it's just way too fast as-is.

Yeah, and sadly, for some reason (no comment from CM), my bug report to fix the bug where the SA page TDC speed wasn't adjusted was moved as a Wish List item...

[markom]

I mean, realistically, it *is* a new feature to have the ability to set the axis curves separately. 

Personally, even though this may be correct as-is, ED should roll-back the change.

[Saruman]

I guess it's emerging from discussion that we would all be happy if ED would accelerate all cursors in all pages or let all of us customise our general cursor speed.

As it is now, it makes unhappy one user or the other for different reasons (no acceleration in other pages vs too fast acceleration overall).

 

Edited April 18, 2023 by Saruman

[markom]

Yeah, that would also work. If speed is constant in all modes, then it can be slowed down, or accelerated. Different speeds in different modes is a problem.

[MARLAN_]

3 hours ago, markom said:

I mean, realistically, it *is* a new feature to have the ability to set the axis curves separately. 

Personally, even though this may be correct as-is, ED should roll-back the change.

My thread that was moved wasn't asking specifically for separate configuration, it was that the SA page has separate speeds at all to begin with which is a bug.

I'm all for configuration, but as it is right now having different speeds is a bug.

Edited April 19, 2023 by MARLAN_

[Bankler]

On 4/17/2023 at 7:54 PM, Swift. said:

In my mind the ideal solution from a user experience standpoint would be to have a series of sliders in the special options to adjust the TDC sensitivity on all formats:
HUD
ATTK
AZEL
SA
HSI
TPOD
GRID

Because although the new speed does make it easier to do things like bump ranging on the ATTK format, its going to be absolute hell to try and enter MGRS with it, at least unless you have a force transducer for your slew control. It seems that instead of trying to cater for all controllers and ending up with a one size fits none solution, ED should just let the player decide what they want, especially when it comes to issues like this that are wholly dependent on hardware being used.

This is a great suggestion. The pattern is already in there (with Realistic TDC Depress). It's clear, customizable, and should be a straight forward implementation. Tucked away under "Special", it won't clutter up the controls page nor require additional bindings. Each screen should simply multiply the slewing speed by whatever the user has set in there.

As neither the community nor ED (and to be honest probably not even 99% of real life Hornet pilots) know the relation in speed between different screens in the real aircraft, and we all have different hardware, it makes a lot of sense to leave it to the player to fine tune it.

@BIGNEWY@NineLine

Edited April 19, 2023 by Bankler

[BIGNEWY]

7 minutes ago, Bankler said:

This is a great suggestion. The pattern is already in there (with Realistic TDC Depress). It's clear, customizable, and should be a straight forward implementation. Tucked away under "Special", it won't clutter up the controls page nor require additional bindings. Each screen should simply multiply the slewing speed by whatever the user has set in there.

As neither the community nor ED (and to be honest probably not even 99% of real life Hornet pilots) know the relation in speed between different screens in the real aircraft, and we all have different hardware, it makes a lot of sense to leave it to the player to fine tune it.

@BIGNEWY@NineLine

 

We can suggest it to the team, but can make no promises 

[Bankler]

32 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

We can suggest it to the team, but can make no promises 

Fair enough, good stuff! 

[scoobie]

On 4/17/2023 at 10:22 PM, toilet2000 said:

This is very similar to what Deka did for the JF-17. Works great!

To those who don't have the JF-17 (suboptimal decision, but I'm not judging you ) Chuck's guide - that's how the thing looks in the Jeff:

null

Edited April 19, 2023 by scoobie

[Czar66]

16 hours ago, Ghosty141 said:

I personally don't see the problem as long as you use an axis for the TDC since you can just change the curve and saturation as well as deadzone in the axis tune setting making it as slow as it was previously again.

Not everyone uses axis for TDC. Some use buttons.

[Saruman]

Thing is that the acceleration vails only for RADAR, so, if you change curves, cursor in HUD, FLIR etc. goes slow like a turtle!

Inviato dal mio BLA-L29 utilizzando Tapatalk

[Bankler]

55 minutes ago, scoobie said:

To those who don't have the JF-17 (suboptimal decision, but I'm not judging you ) Chuck's guide - that's how the thing looks in the Jeff:

null

 

Great post! Then the pattern is both in place and tested already!

[Hulkbust44]

On 4/15/2023 at 6:12 PM, Saruman said:

Yes, they intended to do that, it's in the patch notes. Reason is a 2-years-ago request on F18 forum by some users, supported by 2 seconds of a Youtube video where cursor, on an unidentified BUNO and model of F18, slewed so fast, but you could not understand, by watching those 2 seconds, if radar was in test mode by ground crew (radar was turned off by simply slewing in the video, that's very suspicious) or if it was in actual working mode (I hope ED asked their SMEs for confirmation before the change).

Some users are now even asking to fasten FLIR and SA cursor too on F18 forum (request was moved in wishlist by Nineline).

I cannot fly anymore proficiently F18 due to this change and I am really furious this time with ED, because I support the team by buying a lot of modules and I would have appreciated a more reasonable and mature approach on this 'feature'.

Even if real slewing should be so fast (and it's an 'if', until an official statement about confirmation by SMEs), we are on a sim, not on real plane with real HOTAS, therefore we emulate the real thing with a limited hardware and not a lot of us own a top-tier 350$ throttle with sensitive hat-switch for slewing, so a custom slider for slewing speed would have been a more intelligent and inclusive customer-care solution by ED.

Saturation and curves on axis are not a real solution too, because you can indeed limit a bit the actual speed of cursor on radar by playing with them (I did it setting saturation to 60/100), but cursor moves like a turtle on SA and FLIR page then.

Besides, ED seems to have forgotten that they implemented TDC slewing by keyboard bindings too, so they let user theoretically slew by keyboard.

Well, I challenge ED's staff to slew by keyboard the cursor with the actual lightning speed.

Inviato dal mio BLA-L29 utilizzando Tapatalk
















 

 "radar was turned off by simply slewing in the video, that's very suspicious"

What are you on about? Azimuth and range was bumped but that was it.

[Saruman]

 "radar was turned off by simply slewing in the video, that's very suspicious"
What are you on about? Azimuth and range was bumped but that was it.

Nope, at a certain point you can see radar is off or stby as a consequence of slewing (cross-symbol in lower left angle of screen)

Inviato dal mio BLA-L29 utilizzando Tapatalk

[Hulkbust44]

Just now, Saruman said:

Nope, at a certain point you can see radar is off or stby as a consequence of slewing (cross-symbol in lower left angle of screen)

Inviato dal mio BLA-L29 utilizzando Tapatalk
 

Nope, that was always on the display, the CRT + camera FPS causes part of the display to fade in and out. I see it all the time

[Saruman]

2 hours ago, Hulkbust44 said:

Nope, that was always on the display, the CRT + camera FPS causes part of the display to fade in and out. I see it all the time

4) is the Maltese cross. If you see it all the time, you'd better turn on your radar, because it's off or SIL (or EMCON, but it's not implemented in DCS so far afaik). Or you are weight on wheels all the time and you never take off, which I hope not, you should enjoy this module in air, it's fun after all. (Coming back into topic, the plane in video could have been on ground and could be operated by ground crew for testing purposes, because bars were moving before Maltese cross appears on screen, so weight on wheels is a probable option).

Point is: ED is known to be overly cautious to reference to real documentation, then makes a change basing assumptions on two secs of a video, totally out of context because we do not know anything about Lot it was filmed on or contingent situation? Posting that video again by BN, in this thread, as a justification for changing slew rate in sim (change only partially made, because they did not change cursor speed in other pages) does not get me very comfortable, to be honest. I would have been really ok with a more articulated answer by staff, like "This is a video we were being aware of, we asked our SMEs/consultants about the slew rate, SMEs/consultants confirmed the video".

 

Edited April 19, 2023 by BIGNEWY
removed image 1.15

[toilet2000]

1 hour ago, Saruman said:

4) is the Maltese cross. If you see it all the time, you'd better turn on your radar, because it's off or SIL (or EMCON, but it's not implemented in DCS so far afaik). Or you are weight on wheels all the time and you never take off, which I hope not, you should enjoy this module in air, it's fun after all. (Coming back into topic, the plane in video could have been on ground and could be operated by ground crew for testing purposes, because bars were moving before Maltese cross appears on screen, so weight on wheels is a probable option).

Point is: ED is known to be overly cautious to reference to real documentation, then makes a change basing assumptions on two secs of a video, totally out of context because we do not know anything about Lot it was filmed on or contingent situation? Posting that video again by BN, in this thread, as a justification for changing slew rate in sim (change only partially made, because they did not change cursor speed in other pages) does not get me very comfortable, to be honest. I would have been really ok with a more articulated answer by staff, like "This is a video we were being aware of, we asked our SMEs/consultants about the slew rate, SMEs/consultants confirmed the video".

 

You completely missed @Hulkbust44's point.

The maltese cross (indicating the radar is not emitting) was always there, but because of how cameras and CRT displays work, it appeared as if it wasn't there. Look at it again, pretty much all the symbology wasn't there until it quickly faded in. That is something often seen in videos of CRT monitors, including a lot of real life cockpit videos.

[Saruman]

I see now, thanks. Point stands though: did ED ask its SMEs too before adjustinf slew rate or did they rely only on video (of an unknown Lot in unknown conditions)?

And, to sum it up after discussion, above all, are they going to at least accelerate cursor for all pages (SA, HUD, FLIR, etc.), so that everyone can easily customise curves on its own hardware once for all? Because I adjusted my curves to my hardware, radar is now again usable for me, but curves did adjust even for SA, FLIR, etc., making cursor slower than it should be, since faster slew rate was only applied to radar.

Inviato dal mio BLA-L29 utilizzando Tapatalk

[BIGNEWY]

As mentioned we are happy with the information that we had for the change.

we have passed on the feedback from here to the team from this thread.  

I have removed the image above please keep it DCS related here.

thank you. 

[Ala12Rv-watermanpc]

On 4/19/2023 at 9:49 PM, BIGNEWY said:

As mentioned we are happy with the information that we had for the change.

we have passed on the feedback from here to the team from this thread.  

I have removed the image above please keep it DCS related here.

thank you. 

That's a good news. Please, do this a customizable setting. Since the slew rate was increased, it is literally impossible for me to use the radar page with my low quality TM WH throttle's mini stick. An option for slew rate for different pages/systems would be needed.

 

thanks.

[VIXEN413]

I found a hardware fix that I m happy with... up to you guys to try if u like it. 

 

As I said, the real TDC in the jet is an OTTO force sensing ministick. 

Apply a little bit of pressure to a direction and the cursor will move slowly but apply a lot of force, your cursor will run like in the video above. 

Most of our throttle have ALPS ministick (just like playstation sticks) that are based on angle to provide a deflection. They have short arm and lots of angle so it's mega easy to overcontrol them. With previous TDC speed I realised I was almost always bumping them to full deflection witch is not the way it should be. 

So on my winwing tdc ministick, I set the curves to 0 then popped out the cap to place a roundel of foam underneath. I had to find the right thickness so that the cap would meet resistance while moving. 

took me 2' but you can take out that cap super easy... 

It allows for good smooth movements near the center for more precise work and, by applying more force, you can still get the fast cursor speeds. 

It's also closer to the feeling offered by a force sensing ministick... 

For Virpil throttle, the cap is different so you ll need a different way to place some orings... 

 

hope it helps

Edited April 27, 2023 by VIXEN413

[Jeb]

I thought I messed up something with the TDC slew, been trying to adjust for like the last few days so I can use the TDC. it moves so fast with my Winwing orion2 I can almost not use the module 

[BlueF16]

Why is the speed of the TDC not updated across the board? The SA page is still on the old speed. If they were all one speed it would be fine they can do lightning speed and you can modify the axes limits so that the speed is adjusted to your preference. 

 

Previously the speed of the pages was equal across the board ie (SA page and Radar page) . Now if i want to slow down the Radar page, I suffer with a very slow SA page. 

[Razor18]

An easy workaround until better/official solution arrives, not saying anyone is right or wrong...

This way the extremes of the range will still enable the "original" faster speed for SA, while the inner shallower parts slows down the too fast cursor speed for the FCR for "fine" sorting, but you still can use range or azimuth bump by yanking TDC stick to the edge. Adjust the initial steepness ("center sensitivity") and the point of transition arc with the sliders as you see it fit for your own taste...

 

Edited June 12, 2023 by Razor18