When coherent theater for coherent planes ?

[FAWSPIT]

DCS WW II section is really good, planes, maps  as channel are great. Hope Normandy 2 will erase the first version.

A great gap between planes availables and maps.

FW 190 D, 109 K was not encountered on area we have.  For Bf 109 most last G version can be encountered above Reich for défense as the 190 D historically fight between P51, P47 or Spit take place above areas non covered by our WWII maps..

2 solutions...
Other planes................

BF109  E to G even if they certainly are the most modelised plane in sim..

Spitfire Mk1 to Mk XIV, Typhoon and Tempest.. Maybe Hurricane or even Why not for fun Gladiator

We can be receptive to USSR planes.. we have I16
Wy not Yak's 1,3,7;9  note IL2 GB don't offer Yak3 one of the most interessting version

Only for fun a cocorico french desire... MS 406, MB 151/152 and D520 or the goood old P36  Hawk75  ( ok we will be 3 or 4 to enjoy)

Other Maps..

Belgium Holland
West and Central Germany
North Italy 
East germany and som russia

 

I don't talk about Pacific..


As Combat Sim DCS is obviously the best for jet but for WWII the non coherent  maps/planes push virtual WWII pilot toward IL2 GB wich is now an old and certainly dead product ( i've not said unusuable we can take pleasure long time with it before they offers a new IL2 (may be)

Opportunity time for DCS to be the only one in jet and WW2 ??

I've buy the complete catalog of each these sims and certainly buy all the new offer if they are good..

Hope dreaming long time..

since Twenty year i'm vrtualy flying, virtual squad leader, Beta Tester for several games Even owner of a simulation internet site with a good visibility several years i'm now retired so i fly each day with all games and my friends..

Have nice day

[Gunfreak]

The far "easiest" solution is to expand the Channel map into Nederlands, Belgium and part of Germany, that gives us Market Garden and Bodenplatte. As well as British and American bomber raids into Nederlands(and Germany) as far back as 1941. The 190D9 and 109K4 will suddenly match the map, same with P51D and P-47, Give the spitfire the option of E wing with two .50 and 2 20mm. 

And then add 109G, 110, 190A3/A5, Typhoon, B-24 as AI assets with some like the A5, 109G model later upgraded to flyable. Also add earlier models of P51 and P47 as AI assets.

[Silver_Dragon]

1 hour ago, FAWSPIT said:

DCS WW II section is really good, planes, maps  as channel are great. Hope Normandy 2 will erase the first version.
A great gap between planes availables and maps.

FW 190 D, 109 K was not encountered on area we have.  For Bf 109 most last G version can be encountered above Reich for défense as the 190 D historically fight between P51, P47 or Spit take place above areas non covered by our WWII maps..

2 solutions...
Other planes................

BF109  E to G even if they certainly are the most modelised plane in sim..

Spitfire Mk1 to Mk XIV, Typhoon and Tempest.. Maybe Hurricane or even Why not for fun Gladiator

We can be receptive to USSR planes.. we have I16
Wy not Yak's 1,3,7;9  note IL2 GB don't offer Yak3 one of the most interessting version

Only for fun a cocorico french desire... MS 406, MB 151/152 and D520 or the goood old P36  Hawk75  ( ok we will be 3 or 4 to enjoy)

Other Maps..

Belgium Holland
West and Central Germany
North Italy 
East germany and som russia

 

I don't talk about Pacific..


As Combat Sim DCS is obviously the best for jet but for WWII the non coherent  maps/planes push virtual WWII pilot toward IL2 GB wich is now an old and certainly dead product ( i've not said unusuable we can take pleasure long time with it before they offers a new IL2 (may be)

Opportunity time for DCS to be the only one in jet and WW2 ??

I've buy the complete catalog of each these sims and certainly buy all the new offer if they are good..

Hope dreaming long time..

since Twenty year i'm vrtualy flying, virtual squad leader, Beta Tester for several games Even owner of a simulation internet site with a good visibility several years i'm now retired so i fly each day with all games and my friends..

Have nice day

1. Normandy 1.0 and 2.0 maps has build by Ugra Media 3rd Party, actualy they go to maintain Normandy 1.0, but on the future will phase out 1.0 vs the 2.0.
2. P-51D and Fw190D9 was build as a prof of concept by ED to make suitable piston engine modules into DCS, Fw-190A-8 and Mosquito FB coming later. Bf-109K-4, P-47D, Spitfire Mk.IX, and Me262, WW2 assets pack and Normandy 1.0 was modules "promise" by a old KS by RRG studios as a standalone WW2 product based on DCS engine, but get bankrupt and ED rescue all project and put money to continue the develop. Actually, only missing the Me262 module from old KS, but actualy has on research / data colection. Ugra Media continue develop Normandy 1.0 to release them.
3. Actual plans by ED on WW2 has centred on pacific building F6F Hellcat and free Marianas map WW2 map. Has plans to build Battle of Britain modules, and surely expand The Channel map, but not data about them. Continue building more WW2 assets pack units.
4. 3rd Parties project has Octopus-G La-7 after I-16 Type 24. Magnitude 3 working on F4-U Corsair module plus free Pacific WW2 Assets pack with IJA/IJN/UsNavy aircrafts, ships and / or vehicles. No other 3rd party outside Ugra Media, has building more WW2 maps and / or assets pack yet.
5. ED and/or 3rd parties has none plans to East front maps and / or assets pack units yet.

Edited April 19, 2023 by Silver_Dragon

[Art-J]

@FAWSPITSilver_Dragon pointed some development events above, but keep in mind it took ED almost 9 years (Now '12 - Sept '21) to release 7 flyable warbirds and more than 4 years (Nov '17 - Dec '21) to release 4 AI wabirds. "Release", not "finish", because some of then are still in neverending Early-Access phase or lack basic features. WWII content has always been an afterthought  / secondary business for ED (kind of like FC and TC for Il-2 GB guys), the development pace is slow and it's not going to change anytime soon. Upcoming switch to Pacific with Marianas and Hellcat modules won't help with content coherency either.

At the same time, 3rd parties are not really rushing to fill the gaps - Octopus is developing the La-7, but will go back to modern stuff (Su-17) afterwards, M3 is developing the Corsair, but will go back to modern stuff (Crusader) as well. A Skyraider is coming from Crosstail, but it doesn't quite fit any map or scenario anyway.

I'm just saying you have to manage your expectations - the list of planes you gave is nice and all, but it would take more than a decade to add them to DCS. Not gonna happen when modern combat aircraft remain the primary business for ED.

Edited April 19, 2023 by Art-J

[Silver_Dragon]

Meanwhile ED AI modern team has centred on remade from scratch the old FC-3 / Lomac AI units on DCS (B-52/B-1/S-3 and others) to actual quality standars, we dont know the plans and / or progress of WW2 Assets Pack team on new Air / land / Sea units. On fact, missing the WW2 Newletter, never release on 2023 On Beyond / early 2023... ED will working on new assets outside funtionality. A old P-51B AI unit has present into DCS directories and never was released, and have plans to "expand" Fw-190A-8 to F/G versions, but actualy has "on hold". About 3rd Parties M3 was on the past, build a Iwo Jima map, but never build a map team.

I recomend new 3rd parties to start to fill the gaps into DCS with new pilotable modules / Theaters and assets on WW2, as East / Mediteranean / North Africa fronts.

[NineLine]

Slow and steady win the race

We have a lot of stuff going on behind the scenes, but yes we are not churning stuff out like a meat grinder either. 

[motoadve]

Once Normandy 2 is released expect a lot of new people joining WWII DCS, we can  already see it on the forums in DCS lots of new to warbirds pilots and in other games forums lots of people wanting to get into WWII DCS when they see this new map.

When I see complaints about DCS WWII in other forums its mostly about the plane set, what I would say  what makes it a problem in that respect is the map set, not the plane set, if we had a map of Germany no one would say is not a historical.

Still DCS WII they way we have it right now, is way better than any other product out there, and its just getting better.

[Nodak]

Potential gold mine with this new map, for any third party WWII aircraft maker.  Really think the ball would get rolling much faster with some AI heavy and medium bombers and a few period correct fighters that could be fleshed out later.  Even with the mismatched planes we have people still want air targets to shoot, and a good variety to keep it interesting. 

Neither targets, nor variety of flyable period aircraft are a missed opportunity, not much point in making these maps to this level.  Apparently someone knows something by this latest effort, hope to see some of the fruits soon.  I'd love to make the leap over with the gang, but there's really nothing to leap for yet.

Are you listening third parties? $$$$$$$$

[Tree_Beard]

One thing WW2 maps have going for them is that due to the slower aircraft you really don't need to model a massive area of land to still have great mission possibilities. I think a "Channel" sized map centered around the Ardennes in winter of 1944 and/or a ruined Berlin map in spring of 1945 would be perfect for the ETO modules that we currently have in the sim. 

 

 

Edited April 25, 2023 by Tree_Beard

[Mogster]

On 4/24/2023 at 5:09 PM, Nodak said:

Potential gold mine with this new map, for any third party WWII aircraft maker.  Really think the ball would get rolling much faster with some AI heavy and medium bombers and a few period correct fighters that could be fleshed out later.  Even with the mismatched planes we have people still want air targets to shoot, and a good variety to keep it interesting. 

Neither targets, nor variety of flyable period aircraft are a missed opportunity, not much point in making these maps to this level.  Apparently someone knows something by this latest effort, hope to see some of the fruits soon.  I'd love to make the leap over with the gang, but there's really nothing to leap for yet.

Are you listening third parties? $$$$$$$$

A2A was apparently interested in joining DCS back in 2019. The A2A guys even posted a pic of themselves and Matt W at a trade show. Then Covid and political events and… tumbleweed…

I keep hoping there’ll be a sudden flurry of WW2 announcements, but then with the recent official reveals of all (well most) rumoured projects that seems unlikely. 

[SharpeXB]

Indeed Normandy 2.0 got me taking another look at WWII and it sure is great. Hopefully it will “hockey stick” and the next iteration of development will go faster or bring in more third parties. 

[upyr1]

2 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

Indeed Normandy 2.0 got me taking another look at WWII and it sure is great. Hopefully it will “hockey stick” and the next iteration of development will go faster or bring in more third parties. 

I hope so too. My wish list for DCS World War II is the following 

• Red Army and Air Force assets. I would like to see ED focus on filling in the over lap between the MiG-15 and I-16.
• Ships I want the overlord invasion fleet for Normandy and German ships for what if scenarios. The focus in the Pacific should be the battle of the Philippine Sea.
• More modules 
• More maps I would love a map of Germany that could double as an early  cold war map.

[stuart666]

Im kind of worried with DCS incorporating he pacific. I am concerned we are going to see WW2 split in resources with that area, when we already seems (rightly or wrongly) to take second place to modern era weapons. Splitting the subgenre into two regions, when they have largely dissimilar weapons, to me doesnt make very much sense. I can remember Il2 making its somewhat abortive foray into the pacific. It was fun, but it arguably diluted much else they could have been doing, such as AI intercept radar they were working on.

I would agree though, the best thing would be to expand Channel map to the east. If we got in Holland and maybe a bit of Germany, all the weapons we now have would be perfectly viable on the map for 1944/45.

For me, whats really needed are more assets. If we had a Spitfire V and Me109F, and an AI Blenheim, we could cover the vast majority of the circus operations in 1941 and 1942. A glass nose A20 would allow us to cover the Ramrods all the way up to 1944. Building the flak defences, what ive really noticed we could do are a 37mm flak gun, and a small Wurzburg for gun laying. 105mm flak. For Normandy, im fairly amazed we have absolutely no coastwatcher radars, even though they were attached to every major gun battery along the coast.

I dont think its the maps that are the issue. Some extra miles (which im sure isnt a cheap undertaking) would fix that relatively easily. Its the detail assets, thats the problem.

Edited September 24, 2023 by stuart666

[Silver_Dragon]

6 hours ago, stuart666 said:

Im kind of worried with DCS incorporating he pacific. I am concerned we are going to see WW2 split in resources with that area, when we already seems (rightly or wrongly) to take second place to modern era weapons. Splitting the subgenre into two regions, when they have largely dissimilar weapons, to me doesnt make very much sense. I can remember Il2 making its somewhat abortive foray into the pacific. It was fun, but it arguably diluted much else they could have been doing, such as AI intercept radar they were working on.

I would agree though, the best thing would be to expand Channel map to the east. If we got in Holland and maybe a bit of Germany, all the weapons we now have would be perfectly viable on the map for 1944/45.

For me, whats really needed are more assets. If we had a Spitfire V and Me109F, and an AI Blenheim, we could cover the vast majority of the circus operations in 1941 and 1942. A glass nose A20 would allow us to cover the Ramrods all the way up to 1944. Building the flak defences, what ive really noticed we could do are a 37mm flak gun, and a small Wurzburg for gun laying. 105mm flak. For Normandy, im fairly amazed we have absolutely no coastwatcher radars, even though they were attached to every major gun battery along the coast.

I dont think its the maps that are the issue. Some extra miles (which im sure isnt a cheap undertaking) would fix that relatively easily. Its the detail assets, thats the problem.

 

Someone need remember ED has buildind only a F6F Hellcat aircraft to PTO and the Nick Grey Plans has build Batle of Britain modules to WTO... Meanwhile, 3rd parties working on F4-U Corsair and La-7 Modules.

[stuart666]

And I sympathize, they dont want to leave the corsair out in the cold. But stop and think about it. They are backdating Mariana's. presumably not TOO much effort involved in that. They still have to make Japanese assets like hangars, flags, vehicles, AA guns, presumably even warships.

Considering a fairly modest effort would likely give us a theatre where most of the WW2 aircraft could fly without stretching credulity, this looks, to my mind at least, a very curious decision. Its not that im not a pacific fan. I just think it would be good to get one theatre firmly established with all the kit and area it needs to thrive, before moving onto another theatre.

Not picking a fight with ED on this I should say, its just a shame that when resources are seemingly as tight as they are, they are spreading them even thinner.  I dont get that personally, but then it hardly matters that I do.

Yes, the LA7. If they did a map say, the 1939 Polish/Soviet border, they could employ both the I16 and the LA7 in different periods. That wouldnt be resource heavy. You could, just about, justify the 109K flying there as well. As things stand, where is it going to fly? Its hardly going to fit in Caucasus, I think its a year later than that.

 

[Qcumber]

Another thing to add is that the new Normandy 2 map runs very well, whilst the Marianas map is very hard on fps. If there is to be an investment in the Pacific Theater then hopefully the WW2 Marianas map will perform better than it does now. 

[Ala13_ManOWar]

21 hours ago, stuart666 said:

They are backdating Mariana's. presumably not TOO much effort involved in that. They still have to make Japanese assets like hangars, flags, vehicles, AA guns, presumably even warships.

The "not too much effort involved in that" is only your assumption. Any module, or map here, is a LOT of work mate. It's not ever just copy paste this and that as many people seems to think. It's really a lot, and it was since a lot of time, not a new thing, Corsair aside which isn't even related since it's a third party module.

The assets pack BTW is coming, the Corsair comes with it as they have already told a zillion times. It's not only the plane itself, it'll be coming with Carrier, with naval and ground assets which we've already seen plenty of screenshots. Yeah, "not too much effort…", I don't think so…

[stuart666]

18 hours ago, Ala13_ManOWar said:

The "not too much effort involved in that" is only your assumption. Any module, or map here, is a LOT of work mate. It's not ever just copy paste this and that as many people seems to think. It's really a lot, and it was since a lot of time, not a new thing, Corsair aside which isn't even related since it's a third party module.

The assets pack BTW is coming, the Corsair comes with it as they have already told a zillion times. It's not only the plane itself, it'll be coming with Carrier, with naval and ground assets which we've already seen plenty of screenshots. Yeah, "not too much effort…", I don't think so…

So I suggest you go back and read again what I said, because I think you missed most of it. I minimised Marianas  as far as map building, because its small, and because most of the ground work has already been laid. I did however point out that EVEN SO, there would still be massive amounts to do as far as modelmaking, and making the assets for it. Japanese artillery, we have absolutely none of that for example.  Ifthey make a zero, which presumably is coming, they then presumably have to build carriers to stage it from. And then you have to build the escorts. And then you have to build the weapons to hang on the aircraft. Then you have to build the companion aircraft on both sides.

Its not the map thats the problem, its the assets to build the theatre (much of whcih is still missing from the European maps) that is the real undertaking.

Im not saying 'its not too much effort'. Im saying that the Mariana's map, whilst it wont take so long to complete compared to say, Normandy, is the corner of the iceberg. And one I fear is going to drag attention away from a theatre that, without mcuh effort, could be largely completed to everyones satisfaction.

Im not railing against ED saying that. I just regret that this is the decision they have made, thats all. Im sure they have good reasons for it.

[grafspee]

 If anyone thinks that ED intention was to build coherent theater (Map + period + planes), i must shock you but it was never goal for ED.

And effects of this we can see.

@stuart666 You are completely right despite the fact that F6F hellcat is awsome plane and i would love to fly it in DCS, but it will add another 2 years before we see complete Battle of Britain planes set and map of proper period. 

And right now ED is focused on something else because i haven't seen any news about ww2 development for long time, i may be missing out something so i apologize if it is not true.

Edited September 26, 2023 by grafspee

[stuart666]

Oh, the F6F is great, and I can entirely see ED wanting to do one (Id prefer a Wildcat/Martlet, but hey, I get it) I can entirely see them wanting to do the pacific too. But is it wise? Sadly, judging by the problems IL2 found by covering the same theatre, probably not. I notice the reboot hasnt gone down the same road, for entirely understandable reasons. They have their work cut out just doing East and West.

As I say, im not condemning ED, I know they have to do a lot with not very much. Im genuinely please with all they have done for us. But It does seem to me that something has to change, and if that means splitting WW2 from the modern stuff, maybe thats the way to go. Otherwise its always going to play second fiddle to the modern day stuff and never progress to the point where it can seriously complete with other sims, like IL2.

Just my view fwiw, no disrespect to anyone intended.

Edited September 26, 2023 by stuart666

[Gunfreak]

41 minutes ago, grafspee said:

 If anyone thinks that ED intention was to build coherent theater (Map + period + planes), i must shock you but it was never goal for ED.

And effects of this we can see.

@stuart666 You are completely right despite the fact that F6F hellcat is awsome plane and i would love to fly it in DCS, but it will add another 2 years before we see complete Battle of Britain planes set and map of proper period. 

And right now ED is focused on something else because i haven't seen any news about ww2 development for long time, i may be missing out something so i apologize if it is not true.

 

There will never be a complete battle of Britain plane set, or half complete or 1/4 complete.

Unless ED completely changes how they do stuff, we might get 3 or if we're really lucky 4 bob related planes. 

And that's 10+ years into the future.

[grafspee]

7 minutes ago, Gunfreak said:

There will never be a complete battle of Britain plane set, or half complete or 1/4 complete.

Unless ED completely changes how they do stuff, we might get 3 or if we're really lucky 4 bob related planes. 

And that's 10+ years into the future.

I know that, i was talking about complete set for BoB in DCS terms so at least 1 flyable fighter for each side, couple bombers and attack AI planes and map.

Edited September 26, 2023 by grafspee

[Silver_Dragon]

I know that, i was talking about complete set for BoB in DCS terms so at least 1 flyable fighter for each side, couple bombers and attack AI planes and map.

you have IAs (need more) and Maps. Only need ED and 3rd parties build modules aircrafts.

Enviado desde mi CPH2197 mediante Tapatalk

[Ala13_ManOWar]

2 hours ago, stuart666 said:

So I suggest you go back and read again what I said, because I think you missed most of it. I minimised Marianas  as far as map building, because its small, and because most of the ground work has already been laid. I did however point out that EVEN SO, there would still be massive amounts to do as far as modelmaking, and making the assets for it. Japanese artillery, we have absolutely none of that for example.  Ifthey make a zero, which presumably is coming, they then presumably have to build carriers to stage it from. And then you have to build the escorts. And then you have to build the weapons to hang on the aircraft. Then you have to build the companion aircraft on both sides.

Its not the map thats the problem, its the assets to build the theatre (much of whcih is still missing from the European maps) that is the real undertaking.

Im not saying 'its not too much effort'. Im saying that the Mariana's map, whilst it wont take so long to complete compared to say, Normandy, is the corner of the iceberg. And one I fear is going to drag attention away from a theatre that, without mcuh effort, could be largely completed to everyones satisfaction.

Im not railing against ED saying that. I just regret that this is the decision they have made, thats all. Im sure they have good reasons for it.

Yeah, you seemed to imply it's an easy task, just that. Anyhow since we know quite a lot of things are going on there, and I'm sure it won't be all of it anyway, yet let's hope we get a relatively fleshed out theatre by the time we get it since there's one map, two aircraft planned and assets already on the work  .

[stuart666]

1 hour ago, Gunfreak said:

There will never be a complete battle of Britain plane set, or half complete or 1/4 complete.

Unless ED completely changes how they do stuff, we might get 3 or if we're really lucky 4 bob related planes. 

And that's 10+ years into the future.

Id rather they didnt do Battle of Britain yet at all yet. If they just put in a G6 and a Typhoon, we would have a near complete set for Normandy. An extended channel map and a Tempest, nearly everything we need for the Ardennes in 44. When you look at BOB, they dont really have a single one of the aircraft used. Even the Ju88 is a later variant. Thats huge work towards that. Id welcome it of course, but finishing some of the other things they were seemingly working towards would I would think be a better start.

I truly dont mean to sound critical, I was working in route development for a popular train simulator company. i know compromises have to be made. So its not the compromises I find so saddening, its the lack of joined up thinking, the finishing of a trend they were seemingly working towards. They really seem to want a Lord Beaverbrook as far as WW2 as concerned. Its more like a cat with a laser pen at the moment.

Perhaps there is much more happening behind the scenes. I hope so.