Rudder input range (saturation) seems not correctly modeled in spitfire.

[Rapierarch]

I was on the ground and just trying controllers before take off. I have noticed that when I was pushing rudder right or left I can see the rudder pedals visually reach to max before I can max out the my rudder input. 

I looked at external view and rudder is also behaving visually exactly like that. 

So if I set my saturation 70% I can visually command the full range of rudder which gives me the precision I need. 

Since spitfire rudder is already super effective I cannot conclude in flight tests to see if more rudder gives more control input after visual limit modeled. 

It is the first time I noticed it so I don't know if this is an issue for an update. I'm running TPR rudders. No drivers or software in between. 70% saturation seems to give 100% input range even though controls in game show I only put 70% deflection. Visual model shows full range is utilized. 

 

[jackill]

After latest update I found that takeoff assistance enabled by itself in "special options" menu, maybe it is the same case as yours?

[Rapierarch]

11 hours ago, jackill said:

After latest update I found that takeoff assistance enabled by itself in "special options" menu, maybe it is the same case as yours?

Jesus! that can be. I have noticed that some settings are changed by themselves but did not check that one.

NS430 was enabled by itself also for all modules also (which took me for a while to figure out why some of my keybindings were not working).  Someone on Reddit had motion blur turned on by itself....

I'll check.  

[Rapierarch]

@jackill, I forgot to update here. 

Nope, no auto rudder or take off assist in any module is on. 

[jackill]

I checked after latest release, and I think that it is correct. 70% saturation gives visually smaller deflection:

 

 

[Rapierarch]

On 5/19/2023 at 9:56 PM, jackill said:

I checked after latest release, and I think that it is correct. 70% saturation gives visually smaller deflection:

 

 

Thanks.

Very strange. I have meanwhile checked all my modules. I have exactly the same problem with Bf-109 too. Mustang, Jug, works normal. Spitfire and Bf-109 has this problem. And all other helicopters and jets works without a problem. 

I'm clueless. Really. If there is something wrong with my hardware settings it cannot effect only 2 modules. I checked both of them today again. Same behavior still.

[jackill]

Check in axis tuning - reset all, and see if max input of the controller gives you 100 reading in IN (RAW).

 

Edited May 21, 2023 by jackill

[Rapierarch]

I have no curves. Max input read 100% in raw. It is only those 2 planes which behave like that. I really don't know where else to look at

[Rapierarch]

@jackill

I solved it. I used nukes. Uninstalled both of them. Deleted everything related to both of them in saved games. Even deleted them from coremods. Run the repair. Reinstalled them both. Now they work normal.  I would like to try again to make sure that it holds. But I think it is ok.

thanks for confirming it was working ok with you I wouldn't be sure if it was on my side otherwise. 

[jackill]

Wow, strange. But nice that you solved it  

[Rapierarch]

Thanks!

Honestly, If my internet was ultra fast to download 500+GB DCS installation in 10 minutes. I would do a complete reinstall after each patch  

[Rapierarch]

@jackill

FYI I have the same problem again. Let me see what I can do about it this time. 

[Zimmerdylan]

 I haven't flown the Spitfire in probably a year or more. Yesterday I took a flight in it and wow!!!! The rudder is just insane crazy overly implemented. I've gone to 40% saturation and still it sends the slip scale into a frenzy and the plane rocks like crazy. I read someone saying that they have theirs at 70%........I have to believe that this is something on DCS's end. It didn't seem that crazy before at all. Now....I'm doing this on a brand new install so that is most likely not the issue in my case. 

[Rapierarch]

18 hours ago, Zimmerdylan said:

 I haven't flown the Spitfire in probably a year or more. Yesterday I took a flight in it and wow!!!! The rudder is just insane crazy overly implemented. I've gone to 40% saturation and still it sends the slip scale into a frenzy and the plane rocks like crazy. I read someone saying that they have theirs at 70%........I have to believe that this is something on DCS's end. It didn't seem that crazy before at all. Now....I'm doing this on a brand new install so that is most likely not the issue in my case. 

Yeah. I could not figure it out still. sometimes I have it sometimes I don't. Funny thing is that the axis input shows normal. It is just the reaction of the plane is weird. I can immediately see it by applying the rudder one side on the ground. In cockpit the pedal animation shows it. 

[Zimmerdylan]

" Funny thing is that the axis input shows normal. It is just the reaction of the plane is weird."

 

   Exactly!

[Art-J]

Ian, unless the Spit CW vs non-CW controller fix implemented two weeks ago is causing some unforseen shenanigans with your pedals, I'd say there's a chance you just got "un-used to" flying the Spit after such a long break. Same thing happens to me whenever I get back to Dora after few months of not flying it. Have to re-learn to take off and land the damn thing.

The fact is, up till recent cockpit retexture and aforementioned fix, the poor old Spit haven't seen any changes in years, with exception of new cooling model in last December and new prop animation in April 2021. I've been flying it on a quite regular basis and haven't noticed anything different in rudder behaviour to be honest.

I gather you double checked if you ain't got any rudder assists turned on in special options?

[Rapierarch]

2 hours ago, Art-J said:

Ian, unless the Spit CW vs non-CW controller fix implemented two weeks ago is causing some unforseen shenanigans with your pedals, I'd say there's a chance you just got "un-used to" flying the Spit after such a long break. Same thing happens to me whenever I get back to Dora after few months of not flying it. Have to re-learn to take off and land the damn thing.

The fact is, up till recent cockpit retexture and aforementioned fix, the poor old Spit haven't seen any changes in years, with exception of new cooling model in last December and new prop animation in April 2021. I've been flying it on a quite regular basis and haven't noticed anything different in rudder behaviour to be honest.

I gather you double checked if you ain't got any rudder assists turned on in special options?

When it happens you visually see that. You are halfway pressing the rudder but rudder goes full deflection and pedal does not move any more in the cockpit while you can still keep moving your rudder. Controls setting still shows your input half deflection and output is also same. 

I have no curves in rudder. When this happens I immediately set the saturation 50% to fix it. Then it fixes itself in another flight so I set the saturation back 100%.  

[Art-J]

Rgr that. Well, I'll keep an eye on it next time I fly the Spit, but I'm pretty sure I really never experienced anything similar. MFG crosswinds here.

Do you use t.a.r.g.e.t soft with these TPRs of yours? Or Joystick Gremlin or anything of that sort? Also, do you have two separate controls folders in your Saved Games, for CW Spit and normal one? The bug with ctrl edits saved in one not transfering automatically to the other was allegedly fixed in last-but-one OB patch, but still.... I'm trying to figure out why your input-output combo reacts different to other guys flying Spit here.

Edited November 28, 2023 by Art-J

[Rapierarch]

6 hours ago, Art-J said:

Rgr that. Well, I'll keep an eye on it next time I fly the Spit, but I'm pretty sure I really never experienced anything similar. MFG crosswinds here.

Do you use t.a.r.g.e.t soft with these TPRs of yours? Or Joystick Gremlin or anything of that sort? Also, do you have two separate controls folders in your Saved Games, for CW Spit and normal one? The bug with ctrl edits saved in one not transfering automatically to the other was allegedly fixed in last-but-one OB patch, but still.... I'm trying to figure out why your input-output combo reacts different to other guys flying Spit here.

 

Nope, I use 0 software. I would even not buy any hotas which needs a software to run. Nothing Just DCS and Oculus running. Since I don't play MP not even SRS is installed. 

Ehm. Are there 2 different control settings for CW and normal. I actually never flown the CW

I have this problem also with BF-109 only those  2 modules but problem manifests itself more with spitfire. I'm clueless actually. That's the weirdest bug I have seen so far.