Need more aerodynamically realistic Bf-109 and other aircraft that TFC doesn't have

[chn6]

First of all, we can confirm that the aerodynamic simulation of the P-51D is very good. Thanks to the real P-51D test and the efforts of the pilots, TFC has presented a DCS that can be called a digital artwork to players around the world: P -51D.

However, because TFC does not have Bf-109 and other models, so far, the aerodynamic simulation of DCS: Bf-109K-4 is not ideal. For a simple example, DCS: Bf-109K-4 cannot enter the spin at all.

Bf-109 is the most well-known and most fancied model among World War II fighters. As fans of World War II fighters, we are very disappointed that we cannot drive the more simulated Bf-109 in DCS.

In fact, there are already organizations that have fully flyable original Daimler-Benz DB605 engine Bf-109G, as well as various other models of Bf-109. I very much hope that ED can contact them and turn the legendary fighter Bf-109 into a digital artwork like P-51D (or a digital copy that will last forever in the world).

Even, can you ask TFC to buy a Bf-109 they repaired, if the money is not enough, we global DCS and Bf-109 enthusiasts can donate together?

Please contact Hangar10
http://hangar10.de/
An der Haffküste 1 / Hangar 10a
17419 Zirchow
Phone: +49(0)38376 – 2951-0
Fax: +49(0)38376 – 2951-29
info@hangar10.de

 

 

 

 

 

[Ala13_ManOWar]

6 hours ago, chn6 said:

First of all, we can confirm that the aerodynamic simulation of the P-51D is very good. Thanks to the real P-51D test and the efforts of the pilots, TFC has presented a DCS that can be called a digital artwork to players around the world: P -51D.

However, because TFC does not have Bf-109 and other models, so far, the aerodynamic simulation of DCS: Bf-109K-4 is not ideal. For a simple example, DCS: Bf-109K-4 cannot enter the spin at all.

Bf-109 is the most well-known and most fancied model among World War II fighters. As fans of World War II fighters, we are very disappointed that we cannot drive the more simulated Bf-109 in DCS.

In fact, there are already organizations that have fully flyable original Daimler-Benz DB605 engine Bf-109G, as well as various other models of Bf-109. I very much hope that ED can contact them and turn the legendary fighter Bf-109 into a digital artwork like P-51D (or a digital copy that will last forever in the world).

Even, can you ask TFC to buy a Bf-109 they repaired, if the money is not enough, we global DCS and Bf-109 enthusiasts can donate together?

Please contact Hangar10

Mate, it depends on what you call a 109, which I'm pretty aware most LW bigots  Luftwhinners 109 more eager fans say they aren't, but TFC owns, has owned, or at least have had access to non less than a couple Me109J (yes, that was their official factory name, HA1112 M1L is their builder name, Buchón was their nickname and most people know them by that) which means, yes, they know the thing better than you and me no matter what.

Anyhow, no worries, Hangar 10 red 7 (another Buchón, converted with DB605 to G-4 standard) has showed not far ago in Flying Legends with Klaus Plasa at the controls, and we know they have contacted, talked, and what not to all of them to refine the module, not to mention Erich Brunotte LW veteran (which passed away recently) we all knew here helping with the module, being interviewed and testing the modules back in time, 109 but also Dora which he flew both.

 

The problem is not they haven't contacted, talked, and what not, to those people you point out and more in order to get as much info as possible about all of that. But the problem is virtual pilots wanting the 109 to be something it is not… and I can tell you other games are to blame for that, ahem…   Every module in DCS is a piece of artwork as you realized, and 109 isn't less, it's just enthusiasts expect something unreal from 109. It's just a plane, and the best plane in the game performance wise by the way, but as a plane it has it's own problems, vices, and many things most people don't know/realize because a story in a book never tells those subtleties. Not long ago there was another thread about the apparent lack of spins, but they took a look at it and IIRC it was found it is correct as it is, spins could be developed, but slats prevent the thing to develop further so you don't get to watch it almost ever, even if unwanted and you truly push it to spin on purpose. It might not look like it, but the plane is stalled all the way, and spin starts but slats stop it, or something like that (can't recall every detail of the thing). You can search for those older threads to see what was talked back then (the 109 has produced dozens of threads about 109 performance BTW, you can check and read plenty about that if you will) and every time they have looked at it it just fulfils what charts say, so…

Edited April 22, 2023 by Ala13_ManOWar

[grafspee]

No one will test spins in those planes any more, if you want to know those things you need to have access to flight testing data from plane's era. 

[chn6]

Find a 2014 DCS 109K stall spiral test video, at least this kind of stall and spiral is in line with the description of the DCS 109K own manual.

The current aero does not match the description in the manual.

[grafspee]

DCS manuals aren't proof for ED and i'm speaking from experience, when many times i was trying to proof something. This almost 10 years old clip showing old FM is hardly any evidence.

Edited April 26, 2023 by grafspee

[IIIJG52_Otto_]

On 4/22/2023 at 2:15 PM, chn6 said:

Bf-109 is the most well-known and most fancied model among World War II fighters. As fans of World War II fighters, we are very disappointed that we cannot drive the more simulated Bf-109 in DCS.

In fact, there are already organizations that have fully flyable original Daimler-Benz DB605 engine Bf-109G, as well as various other models of Bf-109. I very much hope that ED can contact them and turn the legendary fighter Bf-109 into a digital artwork like P-51D (or a digital copy that will last forever in the world).

Your reclaim is nothing new in this forum. There are dozens of post referring to rare behavior of the FM of K4 in game such as; neutral trim broken (zero degrees position cause  pitching up), lack of elevator autorithy for climb or dive (depending in joystick command curves settings), lateral instability in roll axis (even with throttel off or engine off, gliding), etc. all of these opinions were understimated or discredit.

Some of us even have interviewed to a real Bf-109 pilot about the behavior of the real airplane trimmed for cruise flight, but it was not a valid evidence for E.D. developers team.

The main problem is that there is none airworthy Bf-109K4, we need that Arsenal-45 company finnish his project to built new one. .. even in that case, i have not hope that E.D's team would take its flight characteristics as valid evidence to change the FM of the K4 in game.

 

Edited April 27, 2023 by IIIJG52_Otto_