Mission 12: Win Conditions (Spoilers)

[Istari6]

Sandman,

Just completed the Operation Sandworm campaign.  Thank you for all the time and effort you obviously poured into these missions.  While many missions were 90-120 min, those were clearly described in the briefing, so I never felt surprised.  After flying other F-14 campaigns with shorter missions and close by targets, it was refreshing to experience the Tomcat's full loitering and long range escort capability.  Much of the campaign was monitoring my fuel state, just as I've read real Tomcat pilots describe.  I liked the realism of interspersing the Carrier Quals with the actual missions, and the way you built up political tensions realistically before open war.  

My only constructive feedback is on Mission 12:
 

Spoiler

I understand you're trying to provide the player a difficult choice, knowing the Russians are threatening war.  But for me, it didn't feel like a difficult choice at all.  I identified the Aeroflot business jet, described it to Darkstar, told them it had Russian markings. 

(BTW - to have a direct order come through from the head of USAF Air Combat Command is strange, you probably meant CENTCOM, the Commander of all US forces in the Middle East)

But regardless, if I'm a LT flying an F-14 in wartime, and the general in charge of the operation gives me a direct order to shoot down the business jet because intelligence suggests the Iranian leader is on-board, even knowing it's Russian, I would follow that order.  There was nothing in the mission which implied there were lots of other civilians on-board, just JESTER commenting he didn't see a guy with a long beard.  

But as the mission is presented, we're told that JESTER doesn't see BEARD, but that's flying from a distance looking through tiny portholes.  I have a direct order to shoot it down from the highest levels (presumably based on intelligence I don't have), while I've been told in the briefing that killing BEARD is the best chance to end the entire war.  There's no mention of other civilians on board what's a pretty small business jet. 

Given all this, it's just not realistic that a US Navy pilot would refuse direct orders to shoot down a small business jet that took off from an enemy airbase under attack with the enemy's suspected leader aboard.  

Thus for me, it wasn't a hard call to shoot it down.  To be punished with a mission failure when I landed, after a very long flight, felt like a bitter end to the campaign.  I skipped it to complete the campaign, but it left a bad taste in the mouth.  

If you're trying to make this a moral choice for the player, consider making the stakes more clear for the player:  

1. Have JESTER mention seeing other civilians - e.g. women and children visible through the windows) or

2. Make it a bigger airliner (where it would be obvious there's many more people) 

 

Edited April 23, 2023 by Istari6

[Sandman Simulations]

4 hours ago, Istari6 said:

Sandman,

Just completed the Operation Sandworm campaign.  Thank you for all the time and effort you obviously poured into these missions.  While many missions were 90-120 min, those were clearly described in the briefing, so I never felt surprised.  After flying other F-14 campaigns with shorter missions and close by targets, it was refreshing to experience the Tomcat's full loitering and long range escort capability.  Much of the campaign was monitoring my fuel state, just as I've read real Tomcat pilots describe.  I liked the realism of interspersing the Carrier Quals with the actual missions, and the way you built up political tensions realistically before open war.  

My only constructive feedback is on Mission 12:
 

  Reveal hidden contents

I understand you're trying to provide the player a difficult choice, knowing the Russians are threatening war.  But for me, it didn't feel like a difficult choice at all.  I identified the Aeroflot business jet, described it to Darkstar, told them it had Russian markings. 

(BTW - to have a direct order come through from the head of USAF Air Combat Command is strange, you probably meant CENTCOM, the Commander of all US forces in the Middle East)

But regardless, if I'm a LT flying an F-14 in wartime, and the general in charge of the operation gives me a direct order to shoot down the business jet because intelligence suggests the Iranian leader is on-board, even knowing it's Russian, I would follow that order.  There was nothing in the mission which implied there were lots of other civilians on-board, just JESTER commenting he didn't see a guy with a long beard.  

But as the mission is presented, we're told that JESTER doesn't see BEARD, but that's flying from a distance looking through tiny portholes.  I have a direct order to shoot it down from the highest levels (presumably based on intelligence I don't have), while I've been told in the briefing that killing BEARD is the best chance to end the entire war.  There's no mention of other civilians on board what's a pretty small business jet. 

Given all this, it's just not realistic that a US Navy pilot would refuse direct orders to shoot down a small business jet that took off from an enemy airbase under attack with the enemy's suspected leader aboard.  

Thus for me, it wasn't a hard call to shoot it down.  To be punished with a mission failure when I landed, after a very long flight, felt like a bitter end to the campaign.  I skipped it to complete the campaign, but it left a bad taste in the mouth.  

If you're trying to make this a moral choice for the player, consider making the stakes more clear for the player:  

1. Have JESTER mention seeing other civilians - e.g. women and children visible through the windows) or

2. Make it a bigger airliner (where it would be obvious there's many more people) 

 

 

Hi,

Thank you very much for this feedback.

I have also thought about this same problem about Mission 12 and now that you mentioned it  I think I need to do something about it.

Spoiler

I wanted to put player to make decision in unclear circumstances. As you said, it's not fighter pilots job to decide if given order is right or not but when it comes to killing civilians it is certain that every pilot will give a thought about it. 

But even if this decision leads to escalation of war, it is wrong to punish player about it. I think I  will change the end of the mission.

 

[Istari6]

Sandman,

Appreciate the quick and thoughtful reply to my post.

Spoiler

Yes, I could see what you were trying to create, and I don't think it will take much to create the effect you're seeking.  Perhaps change JESTER to mentioning he's seeing a lot of families or children pressed up against the windows pointing at the F-14.  Possibly have the jet be a bigger An-30 or similar passenger jet, so it's more believable there's a lot of civilians on board.  The existing Yak-30 looks like a high-end business jet for a wealthy few people, so I wasn't too worried there were lots of innocent civilians on-board.  

Good luck!