How to fight in 109?

[FrostLaufeyson]

Guess I asked a question that no one bothered to read, because it's too broad.

I'm desperate to learn everything about the K4 right now, so I'm asking a hasty question. But I found that there are very few introductions about K4 on the Internet, and all the videos tutorial about DCS's K4 stay in basic tutorials.

I believe that everyone's flying principles should be the same: go home alive. Now, from what I've read, 109 has a ferocious MW-50 (but quite a few PVP servers disable it). So we use BZ tactics as much as possible to ensure our survival.

BZ requires extremely high visual ability and shooting skill, so I will spend lots of time to practice it later. But the engine management and some flight parameters I'm still confused.
What I can do now is to fully open the cooling plate when the coolant temperature is too high, and then set it to auto mode after cooling. This way I at least ensure that the engine doesn't fail halfway.
For hovering, I don't know the STR of 109, so I don't know how much speed and angle of flaps to use to hover. All I can do is when I accidentally get into a dogfight, I can use full power to circle and make sure I don't stall. If the opponent does not have enough energy, then I can reduce the throttle to shoot. If the opponent still has some energy, then I may leave the battle, try to use a powerful engine to widen the energy gap, and conduct another round of BZ. 

The battle with spitfire is like a nightmare, you can't win in a circle at all, all you can do is keep BZ.

In my dogfight practice with my friends, I understood a truth. A fighter like the 109, just run when you can't win a BZ. A fighter like the spitfire, just hovering when you can't run. In this way, the propeller battle seems to have become a bit boring, different fighters are like fighting in completely different dimensions.

So I don't know what the next step is now, I guess everyone in the server is just relying on some skill and luck to see if they can strike first, and then enjoy a happy return flight.

 

I actually enjoy the takeoff and landing process of propeller planes, but the 109 is a fighter, and no matter how beautiful the scenery on the ground is, you still have to go back to the battle in the sky. That's why I wrote so many fragmented thoughts.

[razo+r]

Keep radiators in auto, that will be enough for 99% of the flight. 

As for flaps, keep them up for majority of the flight. Only consider deploying when you are slow. 

Don't turn with the Spitfire, stay fast and you'll stay alive. 

You can turnfight P-51s. However, always try to maintain an advantage over your opponent. 

[FrostLaufeyson]

14小时前，razo+r说：

Keep radiators in auto, that will be enough for 99% of the flight. 

As for flaps, keep them up for majority of the flight. Only consider deploying when you are slow. 

Don't turn with the Spitfire, stay fast and you'll stay alive. 

You can turnfight P-51s. However, always try to maintain an advantage over your opponent. 

1. With full throttle, I think I still need to turn it on manually, otherwise the coolant temperature will reach 115℃

2. I heard that some people will open flaps in low-speed turnfight to gain an advantage. I know 109 may be more suitable for BZ, but I can't find specific techniques and parameters for K4 turnlight on Google.

3. I realized that

4. For now I gonna stay higher and practise SA

[peachmonkey]

I would look at it holistically.

- If you're in 1:1 duel with nobody else in sight then you can try as many tricks as possible and see which one works best. You can lower the flaps but don't lower the RPM's as it takes away precious time to get them back up. It's a fun exercise to train on with a buddy.

However, in MP with 20-40 players the 1:1 duels are pretty rare. If you slow down you will immediately become a target for anyone above waiting for their chance to pounce. If you stay fast those above will have to think hard if it's worth engaging a fast target.

This is what I love about DCS, you can actually dictate the conditions of the fight.

With all other sims there's very little you can dictate due to simple FM's., it doesn't matter how fast/slow you're going, they can always get their sights on you.

[grafspee]

Don't know about anybody else but K-4 is the last plane in which i would use manual cooling. This one is the least overheating plane even before cooling update.

[Mrtanqueray]

Per flaps - the following is from my personal notes:

Flaps Usage in Combat 

Flaps increase a wing's lift and its permissible angle of attack. The potential caveat is that they massively increase drag. In practice deploying flaps will allow you to pull more lead (angle of attack) before stalling, reduce your turn radius under certain conditions, drastically reduce your airspeed, and allow you to fly very slowly without stalling. In every case, flaps are deployed as briefly as possible – being extended only as much as needed, often just for a short time, then stowed again. The price in drag is too high to get lazy and just leave them out for long periods when fighting, cruising, or departing an airfield.

I use them most when arcing over the top of a slow loop, to control speed and closure when dropping on an enemy below me, especially if he’s directly below me, I also use them frequently to get extra that little bit of extra nose authority when pulling lead for a tracking shot while diving on an enemies six. It should be noted that given flap’s minimizing effect on turn radius, and slowing effect on sustained turn rate, they are not suited for two circle fights in most cases, that said if used judiciously and in the right moment they can get your nose around a little bit faster than the opponent’s during a one circle fight—just don’t miss when your shot opportunity comes.

 

Per engine coolant temp - if you're working your throttle properly (aka not keeping it pinned to full for the whole fight) you should not encounter overheating issues.

[grafspee]

@Mrtanqueray Flaps dose not affect stall AoA, they increase lift with cost of the drag but flaps don't affect stall characteristic of the wing, for this purpose you have slats.

[Mrtanqueray]

You might be right Graf - my research produces mixed results in terms of whether flaps do or don't effect the maximum angle of attack for the wing. The assumption that I'm operating under is that flaps deployed will give you a slightly smaller AoA per a given attitude than with flaps up, allowing you a little more room for pitch before stalling in certain circumstances. Regardless of whether or not this is correct, I've found that I'm able to pull a little bit more lead when I'm coming down on a bandit before stall indications with a notch or two of flaps.

[razo+r]

3 minutes ago, Mrtanqueray said:

You might be right Graf - my research produces mixed results in terms of whether flaps do or don't effect the maximum angle of attack for the wing. The assumption that I'm operating under is that flaps deployed will give you a slightly smaller AoA per a given attitude than with flaps up, allowing you a little more room for pitch before stalling in certain circumstances. Regardless of whether or not this is correct, I've found that I'm able to pull a little bit more lead when I'm coming down on a bandit before stall indications with a notch or two of flaps.

Flaps generally lower the critical AoA for a given aerofoil while the slats increase it again. Flaps change the aerfoil shape and thus also change the critical AoA. 

[Nealius]

On 5/6/2023 at 10:39 PM, grafspee said:

This one is the least overheating plane even before cooling update.

A bit of a necro but I'm having my engine overheat within 5 minutes of a dogfight with MP at 1.4ata and radiator in auto, speeds at or above 300kph except for a breif moment in the vertical when I stalled out. Has the cooling become more sensitive for anyone recently, or did I do something wrong? All posts indicate that 1.4ata should be fine for combat, but for me it leads to engine knocking and eventually steam leaking from the cowling. Prop governor aft in auto mode, of course. 

[razo+r]

14 minutes ago, Nealius said:

A bit of a necro but I'm having my engine overheat within 5 minutes of a dogfight with MP at 1.4ata and radiator in auto, speeds at or above 300kph except for a breif moment in the vertical when I stalled out. Has the cooling become more sensitive for anyone recently, or did I do something wrong? All posts indicate that 1.4ata should be fine for combat, but for me it leads to engine knocking and eventually steam leaking from the cowling. Prop governor aft in auto mode, of course. 

Stalling while having high power is a terrible idea. Take some power out or don't stall. 

And staying at around 300kph sounds fine, if the ambient temperature isn't too high. 

[Nealius]

Ambient was 14C, so I guess my stall was what pushed the engine over the edge.

[Gyster]

Some pilots in both world wars racked up impressive kill numbers by only engaging "easy" targets (low energy, no help, etc.).  Targets of opportunity you might say.