Previous waypoint does not cycle (Next waypoint does)

[virgo47]

I can see I'm not the first one having trouble with waypoints and navigation in F-15C, but I can't find the exact problem I have.

• I'm flying a mission where I can see 3 waypoints on the autogenerated kneeboard pages.
• I am in navigation mode (1).
• I have custom binds for Next/Previous Waypoint, but both custom and default act the same way.
• When I use Next Waypoint, it goes 0->1->2->0->1... just fine. I'm not sure why 3 is not there, perhaps it's only for landing, but somehow it cycles.
• When I use Previous Waypoint, it goes 0->1->0->1... and it never goes to 2. But it seems to flicker to something going down from 0 just for a moment, but it's so fast I can't read it.
• A related strange problem also is that sometimes NAV mode is "inert" and I can't change waypoints at all. I have to reselect it again. This happens after a cold start, one sees NAV mode, but it's not a working nav mode yet, and I believe I encountered this also when returning from other modes.

I'm attaching a short track from standard free flight Instant Action on the Marianas. Previous waypoint there just blinks on 1 (not sure why it went 0-1-0-1... on another mission).

f15-prev-waypoint-problem.trk

Edited May 13, 2023 by virgo47

[Nahen]

It `s just the way it is.
Next waypoint changes "forward" points one by one and over and over again. Previous waypoint changes from any selected waypoint down to the zero point and then switches between zero and first.

As for the navigation mode itself, it is usually the case that only after the start it works "normally". Standing at the airport sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't. What's more, sometimes it can not work at all and does not switch between points at all during the flight.

You have to get used to it.

[Ironhand]

When I watched your track, you cycled forward thru all 5 WPs and stopped at WP 1 as you began cycling forward again. You then tried cycling in reverse but couldn't because you were already at the start (WP1). While you can cycle forward indefinitely, you can only cycle back to the beginning. If you try to force it beyond that, it will briefly show you your starting point (WP0). But you should not, and I did not see, it cycling 0,1,2,3,4,5,0,1,2,3....

If you cold start, you are not in any NAV mode, when you first turn on electrical power. You have to bring it up by pressing of the "1" key.

Edited May 14, 2023 by Ironhand

[draconus]

20 hours ago, Nahen said:

You have to get used to it.

Or, better yet, report the bugs when found.

[virgo47]

11 hours ago, Ironhand said:

When I watched your track, you cycled forward thru all 5 WPs and stopped at WP 1 as you began cycling forward again. You then tried cycling in reverse but couldn't because you were already at the start (WP1). While you can cycle forward indefinitely, you can only cycle back to the beginning. If you try to force it beyond that, it will briefly show you your starting point (WP0). But you should not, and I did not see, it cycling 0,1,2,3,4,5,0,1,2,3....

If you cold start, you are not in any NAV mode, when you first turn on electrical power. You have to bring it up by pressing of the "1" key.

You're right! I encountered this first on a different mission with waypoints 0, 1 and 2 and that's what confused me - although it still is strange, as it cycled 1-0, not just 0 (not sure why/how 0 was the first waypoint). In the free flight, I totally forgot to try it from the higher number waypoints - and it actually DOES go down properly, but it does not cycle to the last one and ends on the first waypoint. A bit unexpected (makes returning to the last waypoint in case of wrapping up to the first one difficult), but I'm not sure whether it is a bug or not.

All these things are quite a lot to get used to and not always easy to find in the manual without already knowing the solution and they compound with other strange things. E.g. sometimes you get "VS BST" in NAV mode instead of the distance - turning the radar off helps, but other times it shows distance just fine even with a radar. No idea why, and "BST" is nowhere to find in the F-15C manual. Luckily, many things are already discussed on this forum already. Just finding it is tricky sometimes.

Thanks, guys.

[draconus]

1 hour ago, virgo47 said:

"BST" is nowhere to find in the F-15C manual

It is on the page 63 and it means you're in Vertical Scan combat mode, not nav. Press 1 for nav mode.

Edited May 14, 2023 by draconus

[Ironhand]

2 hours ago, virgo47 said:

I encountered this first on a different mission with waypoints 0, 1 and 2 and that's what confused me - although it still is strange, as it cycled 1-0, not just 0 (not sure why/how 0 was the first waypoint).

Seeing "0" as a WP is very strange. I don't recall ever seeing it myself. So I'm not sure what was happening there. The "O" WP is a Mission Editor item. It marks your start point. In an air start and, possibly, a ground start away from an airbase (a road for instance), it's your starting coordinates. In a ground start at an airbase it used to mark the center of the runway--and still may do that. It's been a long time since I've checked. But that then becomes to point from which the distance to WP1 is measured.

Draconus clarified your other concern.

As always, if you have questions, ask. Someone will be along to help.

[virgo47]

4 hours ago, draconus said:

It is on the page 63 and it means you're in Vertical Scan combat mode, not nav. Press 1 for nav mode.

Thanks for the reference, now I see why the text search didn't help.

My problem with VS BST is, that when I go to vertical mode, and then back to NAV (1), it still says VS BST in the second row until I turn off the radar. Again, I don't know whether this is intentional, luckily I found the tip on the forums previously - just turn off the radar and it immediately shows the distance to the WP.
When going to BVR or BORE mode and back to NAV, there is no problem, even when the radar is on.

(Adding to my confusion was the fact, that NAV/ILSN line is actually shown in most modes, I didn't expect that. When I got that "stuck VS BST" problem, I was questioning even things that were OK.)

2 hours ago, Ironhand said:

Seeing "0" as a WP is very strange. I don't recall ever seeing it myself...

This is happening to me in the custom training missions from here: https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3313014/ (e.g. BVR Intercept practice, but most missions have 0 WPY selectable)

Thank you both for the answers and tips. I'm enjoying the F-15C quite a lot, I'm reading the manual too actually, but slowly. So I'm asking whenever I can't find the answer, or just don't get it even after reading.

F-15C is fun, I don't mind the details or cockpit textures, but it would deserve more dev love nonetheless.

[Ironhand]

23 hours ago, virgo47 said:

...This is happening to me in the custom training missions from here: https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3313014/ (e.g. BVR Intercept practice, but most missions have 0 WPY selectable)...

I just downloaded and checked a few quickly. You're seeing a "0" WP, when the mission starts in active pause which is interesting because, as soon as the sim is unpaused, the "0" turns to "1" and it never appears again.

But I can see how that would be confusing. You can interact with it in active pause when airborne but not in a cold start on the ground.

Edited May 15, 2023 by Ironhand

[virgo47]

@IronhandI'm not sure how it works for you, but I tried the mission "F-15C Training - 13 - Intercept (Practice Mission)" and it actually starts unpaused for me and 0-1-0-1-... cycle works all the time for me. Also, going up the waypoint cycle, I wrap up to 0 in these missions. So, "0" waypoint is reachable for me in these missions anytime, even when unpaused, using either Next or Previous waypoint shortcuts.

[Ironhand]

14 hours ago, virgo47 said:

@IronhandI'm not sure how it works for you, but I tried the mission "F-15C Training - 13 - Intercept (Practice Mission)" and it actually starts unpaused for me and 0-1-0-1-... cycle works all the time for me. Also, going up the waypoint cycle, I wrap up to 0 in these missions. So, "0" waypoint is reachable for me in these missions anytime, even when unpaused, using either Next or Previous waypoint shortcuts.

Works the same. I hadn't checked that mission. When I did, "0" is indeed there but you can cycle up through all the WPs as well as back down to "0" normally. It may be that I've just never noticed the "0" WPs before. In that particular mission, though the graphic at the start shows WPs 1,2,3, you can only cycle 0,1,2 because WP 3 is the landing WP.

[Nahen]

On 5/14/2023 at 1:39 PM, draconus said:

Or, better yet, report the bugs when found.

The F-15C's navigation mode problem is almost as old as I am and has been reported and described many times, almost as much as the aerial refueling problem with underwing and underfuselage tanks. Neither of them have been "noticed" for as long as I can remember or are too difficult to solve. It is not for me to judge.

[virgo47]

3 hours ago, Ironhand said:

Works the same. I hadn't checked that mission. When I did, "0" is indeed there but you can cycle up through all the WPs as well as back down to "0" normally. It may be that I've just never noticed the "0" WPs before. In that particular mission, though the graphic at the start shows WPs 1,2,3, you can only cycle 0,1,2 because WP 3 is the landing WP.

Yeah, sorry for not being clear. Next waypoint works fine, as always, it even wraps around. Previous waypoint works, but without proper wrapping - as you pointed out before. The strange thing is that with this 0 WPY it cycles 0-1-0-1 when trying to wrap. But in missions where 1 is the lowest WPY number Previous waypoint just stays on it (sans the short blink when trying to wrap around). Either way, Previous waypoint does not wrap correctly - just doing it differently when 0 WPY is present.

I got used to it already and take it as it is.