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Feedback Thread F-14 Tomcat - Update May 18th 2023


IronMike

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Dear all,

we are happy to introduce the first set of ground handling improvements with this update. While we will follow up with changes and improvements that will bring the taxiing and ground roll behavior even closer to reality, you should already notice a significant difference to how it used to be. Particulary power needed to start rolling and to maintain taxiing will be much less (bring it ouf idle to start rolling, keep it idle to maintain a slow taxi speed), while the aircraft should feel more dynamic in stopping and spool up motions, crossing bumps, etc. We hope you enjoy it!

As always we would kindly like to ask you for your feedback. Thank you for your continued support!
 

DCS F-14 Tomcat by Heatblur Simulations

  • NEW: Major Ground Handling and Suspension Overhaul Phase 1:
    • Improved general suspension.
    • Improved taxi behaviour and ground roll characteristics.
    • Improved ground handling sounds.
    • More ground handling improvement to come!
  • NEW: Added pedal shaker sound (above 21 units AOA.)
  • NEW: Added wing turbulence and wind sounds for additional feedback queuing at high G/pitch rate
  • Added DLC deployment sound
  • Fixed USS Forrestal taking damage on landing and take off
  • Adjusted buffet intensity and AOA schedule for “realistic” buffet option
  • Adjusted Yaw SAS effectiveness
  • Adjusted ground effect pitch moment to assist in aerobraking and rotation (necessary after rolling friction reduction)
  • Fixed MAK-79 loadouts.
  • Phoenix pallet mass now again added to total aircraft mass (added weight cannot be seen in-game, but is taken into account in the FM)

Edited by IronMike
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Heatblur Simulations

 

Please feel free to contact me anytime, either via PM here, on the forums, or via email through the contact form on our homepage.

 

http://www.heatblur.com/

 

https://www.facebook.com/heatblur/

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1 hour ago, IronMike said:
  • NEW: Added pedal shaker sound (above 21 units AOA.)
  • NEW: Added wing turbulence and wind sounds for additional feedback queuing at high G/pitch rate
  • Added DLC deployment sound

Are these sounds realistic? Meaning, could pilot hear them while flying the aircraft, wearing the helmet?

Thanks for the new ground handling simulation :thumbup:

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1 hour ago, draconus said:

Are these sounds realistic? Meaning, could pilot hear them while flying the aircraft, wearing the helmet?

Thanks for the new ground handling simulation :thumbup:

I don't know tbh, you would have to ask a pilot. From my understanding they did not hear much else than the ECS. But sound in games is a good way to replace haptic feedback. Like for example hearing the AB kick in, whereas irl you would not as much hear it as you would feel it.

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Heatblur Simulations

 

Please feel free to contact me anytime, either via PM here, on the forums, or via email through the contact form on our homepage.

 

http://www.heatblur.com/

 

https://www.facebook.com/heatblur/

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1 hour ago, Dannyvandelft said:

Wheel brakes seem a lot worse, and I was surprised to not see any nose suspension movement when braking. I was expecting/hoping to see the nose dive if you slammed on the brakes.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
 

<Ahem>:

4 hours ago, IronMike said:

...we are happy to introduce the first set of ground handling improvements with this update. While we will follow up with changes and improvements that will bring the taxiing and ground roll behavior even closer to reality, you should already notice a significant difference to how it used to be.

 

And...

 

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8 hours ago, Dannyvandelft said:

Wheel brakes seem a lot worse, and I was surprised to not see any nose suspension movement when braking.

Can't agree with any of your statements. The braking difference is not big (if at all) and there is strut movement when braking - not big either.

In PG Silkworm Hunt (name from memory) IA mission I couldn't see anything in either LANTIRN or TCS. It worked in Syria and NTTR though. (DCS 2.8.5 MT VR)

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4 hours ago, draconus said:

Can't agree with any of your statements. The braking difference is not big (if at all) and there is strut movement when braking - not big either.

 

Agreed. Both on the carrier and on land runways, the breaks seem to work ok, at least as far as stopping comes to mind. This still assumes the pilot doesn't botch the landing of course! 😄

What i did notice though, is that now the breaks can't hold the plane in place with less then 40% mil power. Although, i don't recall ever reading how much power should be needed before break pressure isn't enough, so maybe it's supposed to be this way? However, that also means, that holding the breaks till engine spool up is an absolute no-no. Not that it was possible before mind you, just that now it's even less possible. 


Edited by captain_dalan
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Modules: FC3, Mirage 2000C, Harrier AV-8B NA, F-5, AJS-37 Viggen, F-14B, F-14A, Combined Arms, F/A-18C, F-16C, MiG-19P, F-86, MiG-15, FW-190A, Spitfire Mk IX, UH-1 Huey, Su-25, P-51PD, Caucasus map, Nevada map, Persian Gulf map, Marianas map, Syria Map, Super Carrier, Sinai map, Mosquito, P-51, AH-64 Apache

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16 hours ago, IronMike said:

 

  • NEW: Added pedal shaker sound (above 21 units AOA.)
  • NEW: Added wing turbulence and wind sounds for additional feedback queuing at high G/pitch rate
  • Adjusted buffet intensity and AOA schedule for “realistic” buffet option
  • Adjusted Yaw SAS effectiveness

 

Do you mind some clarifications on these? I only had about an hour to play around tonight, so i didn't really had the time to fully explore possible scenarios, but:
1. What exactly is the pedal shaker sound? Is it that rattling sound that used to play on high AoA excursions?
2. If this is present, it's barely noticeable if g-related. That is, it's largely drowned by the sound of the afterburner. Also, the heavy breathing and the visual blackout often kick in before the wind sound becomes noticeable. For me, it becomes audible around 6g in mil power and around 8g in burner. IF this is the sound we are talking about. High AoA related wind sound becomes audible much sooner. Is this as intended or am i missing something?
3. This now feels a lot "flatter". That is, it doesn't seem to vary much with AoA, once it reaches certain values, generally around or just above 20 units. Makes the plane feel a lot more "tame" and docile and reduces haptic feedback for extremely high AoA. It's nice to see low and medium AoA haven't been affected much. Was the real plane really so non-talkative during departures? I can now do zero-airspeed stalls and it feels very...... uneventful. 
4. I still can't figure out how this works in the sim. Not before and certainly not now. As mentioned above, i did deliberate zero-airspeed stalls, and no effects on stick inputs or plane behavior SAS on or off. Tight 25, 30 and 30 plus units of AoA turns, with cross-controlling stick and rudder inputs, again no perceivable difference. Rolling with both rudders and ailerons (coordination) or snap rolls, no joy, still the same. Full deflection alerion rolls, SAS on, seems and feels snappier and faster somewhat. What test-case scenario should cover a clear test of the plane's behavior with SAS on and off? As things are, i see no reason at all to turn it to off for dogfights. 

Modules: FC3, Mirage 2000C, Harrier AV-8B NA, F-5, AJS-37 Viggen, F-14B, F-14A, Combined Arms, F/A-18C, F-16C, MiG-19P, F-86, MiG-15, FW-190A, Spitfire Mk IX, UH-1 Huey, Su-25, P-51PD, Caucasus map, Nevada map, Persian Gulf map, Marianas map, Syria Map, Super Carrier, Sinai map, Mosquito, P-51, AH-64 Apache

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4 hours ago, captain_dalan said:

As things are, i see no reason at all to turn it to off for dogfights.

Roll SAS off was always advisable for dogfights. The update was about Yaw SAS. Just to be clear.

And about holding the aircraft with the brakes, I'd be only concerned with one engine crossbleed start on the ground.


Edited by draconus

🖥️ Win10 i7-10700KF 32GB RTX3060   🥽 Rift S   🕹️ T16000M HOTAS   ✈️ FC3, F-14A/B, F-15E   ⚙️ CA   🚢 SC   🌐 NTTR, PG, Syria

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1 minute ago, JupiterJoe said:

Has anybody heard the DLC deployment?  Is it wind noise (like you hear with fuel probe extended), or mechanical deployment we're supposed to hear?  I haven't noticed anything different yet.

Yep, you can hear silent mechanical thump in the cockpit. In external view with engines on - no chance.

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5 hours ago, draconus said:

Roll SAS off was always advisable for dogfights. The update was about Yaw SAS. Just to be clear.

 

Yikes, talking about the mind overriding what the eyes see! My bad! @IronMikeignore that one!

5 hours ago, draconus said:

 

And about holding the aircraft with the brakes, I'd be only concerned with one engine crossbleed start on the ground.

 

nullThere it is. It appears we are far from adequate break performance. Always were. 

image.png

image.png

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Modules: FC3, Mirage 2000C, Harrier AV-8B NA, F-5, AJS-37 Viggen, F-14B, F-14A, Combined Arms, F/A-18C, F-16C, MiG-19P, F-86, MiG-15, FW-190A, Spitfire Mk IX, UH-1 Huey, Su-25, P-51PD, Caucasus map, Nevada map, Persian Gulf map, Marianas map, Syria Map, Super Carrier, Sinai map, Mosquito, P-51, AH-64 Apache

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4 hours ago, draconus said:

Yep, you can hear silent mechanical thump in the cockpit. In external view with engines on - no chance.

It must be silent, because I don't hear a damn thing.  Even with ECS off. 

EDIT:...Wait!  I heard it.  I wasn't airborne before.  Perhaps that's why.  It's quiet, but it's there.  I can understand needing this at night.  Thank you.


Edited by JupiterJoe
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29 minutes ago, JupiterJoe said:

I can understand needing this at night.

There are instruments that can confirm DLC movement.

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6 hours ago, captain_dalan said:

Yikes, talking about the mind overriding what the eyes see! My bad! @IronMikeignore that one!

nullThere it is. It appears we are far from adequate break performance. Always were. 

image.png

image.png

I hope these items get addressed in the next round of ground handling updates!  

What are the sources for these?

Former USN F/A-18E/F Avionics Tech @ VFA-103 & VFA-106
Former T-34C & T-44A/C Plane Captain

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I for one am really enjoying the new update and think it adds more than I was expecting.  I need more work on speed when taxiing, even when only using one engine but I haven't had the brake issues mentioned above. One thing I have noticed, and it might be all in my head, but taking off from a traditional runway feels less 'jerky' with a smoother rotation and less oscillation in the nose. 

Can't say I have heard the DLC employment but my wife says I'm  pretty deaf so that's probably more me and I have always just checked in the mirrors anyway.

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On cat shots the nose is going very high with neutral trim, hands off stick. Before the patch, the fixed-T would hit about 15° on the HUD ladder, AoA maxing at about 15 units, nose stable once it reaches nose-high attitude. After the patch, the fixed-T hits 19-20° on the HUD ladder, AoA maxing around 17-18 units, nose falls down to or below 15° instead of staying stable. Intended FM update?

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On cat shots the nose is going very high with neutral trim, hands off stick. Before the patch, the fixed-T would hit about 15° on the HUD ladder, AoA maxing at about 15 units, nose stable once it reaches nose-high attitude. After the patch, the fixed-T hits 19-20° on the HUD ladder, AoA maxing around 17-18 units, nose falls down to or below 15° instead of staying stable. Intended FM update?
Yeah noticed that too.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

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