Canopy reflexes - Poll

[303_Kermit]

Hallo Guys
Canopy reflexes and dirt - Poll. You love it you hate it? Am I only one who thinks that it's a kind of sadism to force people to suffer like these?

Edited May 18, 2023 by 303_Kermit

[Monkey21]

Canopies would be cleaned before flight, makes no sense to have them dirty from the outset. Would be cool if it was connected to how long you'd been in the air or at low altitude: the occasional splatted bug to scare the bejesus out of you.

[Dragon1-1]

I don't mind a few scratches, but dirt should be kept to a minimum, and if we're going to have reflections, they should be dynamic. Not to mention, don't they use anti-reflective coatings on modern canopies? It's not particularly fancy tech, you can get them for a car's windshield (of course, modules from earlier eras are another story). IMO, it should be subtle, unless you get an oil leak or something that would cause the canopy to get dirty. 

It's poll, by the way, pool is either something you swim in, or that thing involving knocking balls into holes in a green felt table.

[Wyes]

Some dirt, scratches etc. on the canopy glass seems reasonable. However, as all objects are in focus in DCS (i.e. no depth of field), canopy imperfections become far more of a hindrance than they would be in the real world. When I get a scratch on my windscreen, I barely notice it as my eyes are focused on objects beyond the scratch. For this reason it would be nice if the canopy dirt, scratches etc. were toned down a little -- especially when checking six etc. and you're trying to look through all of them accumulated along the line of sight through the glass.

[Mike Ethanol]

Clean canopy is better. 

[II.JG1_Vonrd]

There are mods to make clear canopy. I don't think they break integrity check.

[BitMaster]

Dirty as can be

[SMH]

Do you mean reflections? They're a must! Scratches too. Dirt I don't care for unless its accumulated during the mission. Real aircraft have carefully maintained glass.

[Mogster]

I think there’s a balance. Excessive dirt and crazing doesn’t seem right, but glass that’s so clear it feels as if there’s no visual impedence feels just as wrong. 

Edited May 20, 2023 by Mogster

[303_Kermit]

On 5/19/2023 at 4:27 AM, SMH said:

Do you mean reflections? They're a must! Scratches too. Dirt I don't care for unless its accumulated during the mission. Real aircraft have carefully maintained glass.

No I mean a milk spoiled over canopy, and dirty paintings on windshield. I don't mind reflexes.

So far It looks like poor pilots tyranny: "I can't see contacts and I don't want that others do."

I talk about that:



It's probably not important on F-16 - they look at MFD only anyway. As we know, good WWI and WWII pilots used to approach from the sun - to surprise enemy. In DCS it's all upside down. If you came from the sun you're far better visible than if you approach enemy in the way, that HE have the sun behind him. I do that repeatedly... To make enemy blind. There's clearly something wrong here. Spitfire pilots in DCS fly with opened canopy WWI style, all the flights on Enigma PVP in MiG-21 (before windshield update) I made with canopy blown off - to have superior visibility advantage (worked quite well - and it's annoying that it does)

I look for simulation not for aberration. It's about that.

Green Ugly fellow.

Edited May 20, 2023 by 303_Kermit

[speed-of-heat]

yes these canopy reflections have been commented on before ... the spit is especially bad  ... 

[303_Kermit]

On 5/18/2023 at 10:29 PM, II.JG1_Vonrd said:

There are mods to make clear canopy. I don't think they break integrity check.

Wrong. Currently no mod passes integrity check

Edited May 20, 2023 by 303_Kermit

[Hiob]

They need to be dynamic. The only ones that bother me, are the baked in reflexions that doesn’t change. And in some modules the blinding through sun reflexions is a bit overdone like in the examples above.

[diego999]

Clear all the way.

[AutumnFox]

Model in a piece o' cloth an' a'll gladly clean me windaes afore every take off

[Doughguy]

Dirt is dirt, however, with the ammount of shine on the canopy, it appears they´re rather sandblasted and not high gloss.

you cannot avoid reflections on glass/plexiglass. thats a fact. just as scratches and residue in nooks n cranies around frames.

Adjustment is needed.

[303_Kermit]

[AutumnFox]

Just wipe th' dirt lads. Ye a' hae cars, aye? Note th' difference between cleaned an' dirty. Literally tae see or no' tae see against th' sun. An' noo imagine car windaes are layered so they're naturally even more reflective than plane ones. Meanwhile ah' cannae see <profanity>e in a plane while being perfectly fine in me car. Come on... Plexi is plexi true. But in th' taims o' WW2 th' plexi was brand new 

"zxssssssssss          jjjjjjjjuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh" ~ me cat on me keyboard

[303_Kermit]

2 hours ago, Doughguy said:

Dirt is dirt, however, with the ammount of shine on the canopy, it appears they´re rather sandblasted and not high gloss.

you cannot avoid reflections on glass/plexiglass. thats a fact. just as scratches and residue in nooks n cranies around frames.

Adjustment is needed.

I flew gliders and light planes. They possessed no special glass. I never noted such problem. If something made me blind - It was the sun. Sure there are some reflexes, but nothing so sick as in DCS. I flew Pirat glider - his canopy was 20 year old - I never saw such blinding milk spoiled on canopy. And even if - they're on the sun side. Not the other.

I never saw a single video / photo / or personally a plane with such bad visibility as we have in DCS

Edited May 20, 2023 by 303_Kermit

[motoadve]

Totally clear is worse than scratched and dirty IMHO, a mix would be good.

Default transparency is 1, I had it at 0.6 in the mod and it looked realistic, not too clear not too dirty.

[AutumnFox]

1 minute ago, motoadve said:

Totally clear is worse than scratched and dirty IMHO, a mix would be good.

Default transparency is 1, I had it at 0.6 in the mod and it looked realistic, not too clear not too dirty.

Indeed! Checks oot with me C150 flight memories. Th' mod made it noticable but no' "LOOK AT ME A'M PRETTYYYY" levels o' annoying

[303_Kermit]

6 minutes ago, motoadve said:

Totally clear is worse than scratched and dirty IMHO, a mix would be good.

Default transparency is 1, I had it at 0.6 in the mod and it looked realistic, not too clear not too dirty.

True *- Clear Glas mod was perfect. Some reflexes are there, but aren't disturbing

[303_Kermit]

23 hours ago, Atazar SPN said:

A clean, glare-free canopy is unrealistic, that's the reality. It may happen that an aircraft has a clean glass and all its instruments in the hangar, but most operational units show signs of use, scuffs, scratches, dirt and wear.

Scratches like the one in F-15C are completely ok. Dirt - that's the other thing. Cleaning canopy is saint in aviation. MiG-21 used to have nice smell of alcohol every morning. Anyx the glider I flew always smell from some windshield cleaning product. The other case is, that most humans has two eyes. We see stereoscopic. That is why we can focus our sight on object - either outside the windshield, or on the dirt on the windshield. In DCS there's no such option. Human eye can't focus on most important objects. We can't focus our sight on the things outside the canopy because we see a flat picture. Interesting , but even in VR in spite of the stereoscopic sight - problem stays the same - because dirt and reflexes is represented in DCS by hideous , old bitmap. That is why we have to see contacts and dirt just as well - in reality that is not the case. We can focus our eyes outside the canopy.

As for a glare - I never experienced it in the way as it's in DCS. It's always on the wrong side of canopy. The "milk" spoiled over canopy appears in reality only if a canopy material is "polluted" those who had some physics lab surely remember. The light dissipates in a heterogeneous medium. That means - if in the glass there's something more than it should be. It may happen if glass (or perspex or any other material) is old - chemical and foto-chemical reactions may change transparency of a windshield. But it's not a normal state.

Also - in reality we can always use "sun glasses" - it was always subject in a briefing on our AF. If sun operates intensively, you have to remember about the proper glasses. And magically a glare is also not the problem.

Finally.... If sun operates on my 9 o'clock there's never a glare on my 3 in real plane. The reason is simple: my body is not transparent. In DCS kinda... is.

With my best regards
GUF

Edited May 21, 2023 by 303_Kermit

[SMH]

On 5/20/2023 at 5:17 AM, 303_Kermit said:

No I mean a milk spoiled over canopy, and dirty paintings on windshield. I don't mind reflexes.

So far It looks like poor pilots tyranny: "I can't see contacts and I don't want that others do."

I talk about that:



It's probably not important on F-16 - they look at MFD only anyway. As we know, good WWI and WWII pilots used to approach from the sun - to surprise enemy. In DCS it's all upside down. If you came from the sun you're far better visible than if you approach enemy in the way, that HE have the sun behind him. I do that repeatedly... To make enemy blind. There's clearly something wrong here. Spitfire pilots in DCS fly with opened canopy WWI style, all the flights on Enigma PVP in MiG-21 (before windshield update) I made with canopy blown off - to have superior visibility advantage (worked quite well - and it's annoying that it does)

I look for simulation not for aberration. It's about that.

Green Ugly fellow.

 

Glare on glass is realistic. It's a factor in fighting. I absolutely want it in our sim!  

[SMH]

On 5/20/2023 at 3:11 PM, 303_Kermit said:

My problem with that shot is there's a clear "dent" in the UV mapping on the glass that needs to be fixed. Quite a few canopies have issues like this now, particularly around the canopy bow. Also not convinced the angle of the sun glint is correct given the position of the sun. But there should be glint somewhere.