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Flight controls behaviour after the latest update


RazorbackNL

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Before the update the collective had to be raised about 3/4 of its travel for pickup. Now the travel is reduced to about 1/4. Same goes for the cyclic and pedals. The amount of left pedal and left cyclic seems to be a bit to much for the Huey to get light on the skids. Both have doubled in travel. Collective behaviour seems to brought back to the level it was when the Huey was first released.

Any thoughts on this?

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Same here, To takeoff I must fully press left pedal till the end to takeoff  without tail rotating, don`t know if this is like the real one, but based on real huey pilots videos think "this is not the way" (mandalorian says 😉 ) ....in my experience, the huey now has become super difficult on takeoffs , landings and also hovering....

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At altitude, even full left rudder is sometimes not enough when taking off. This was the case in Elbrus rescue mission. I picked up the survivors from mountain top, and taking off, even full left rudder was not sufficient to keep her straight. Never set foot in a Huey, but this seems a bit off. 

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For those wondering

Takeoff/hovering/landing requires so much more left pedal now because the new performance profile requires an inaccurately large volume of power for these flight profiles.

The tail rotor isn't weaker, you just need more of it because the hovering performance is wrong.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Also during forward flight it requires a lot of left pedal for the ball to be centered. When you use the cyclic to the left or right you need to press opposite pedal now for the ball to remain centered. Something‘s quite off at the moment. 

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On 6/25/2023 at 8:18 PM, JABowders said:

Wow, thanks for a second, I thought I was just lost all my skills. Transition Effects to land ends up being way out of Wack, I keep falling out of the sky after I come to a hover or near hover with minimum forward speed. 

Yes, I've noticed the same thing, ground effect doesn't work as it should now. It's "bouncy", with the normally easy to find "cushion effect" not there at all, making you either crash skids into the ground or shoot straight up far too quickly. Makes doing hover-checks impossible (and pointless as we just seem to have way too much power/torque/EGT available now).

You can roll back to the old engine model by making this lua edit: (It passes IC.)

Regardless of which engine-model I use, I find it's too powerful/fast now too. Even heavy with weapons she'll do over 125 knots now, level. I used to have trouble getting much over 90 before when rockets and external gun pods were on it.

image.png

 

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3 hours ago, SMH said:

Yes, I've noticed the same thing, ground effect doesn't work as it should now. It's "bouncy", with the normally easy to find "cushion effect" not there at all, making you either crash skids into the ground or shoot straight up far too quickly. Makes doing hover-checks impossible (and pointless as we just seem to have way too much power/torque/EGT available now).


The issue here isn't actually the engine or transmission

It's the rotor itself.

At low speeds the rotor doesn't produce even remotely enough thrust.

As per our profiled hover chart. 
image.png

 

 

The problem isn't that we have too much power available, the problem is that it takes too much power to hover, because the rotor doesn't produce enough thrust.

If the rotor were producing the correct amount of thrust, the blue dataline would match the OGE data.

From there ED would need to tweak ground effect itself to make the red and yellow plots match the 5 and 2ft hover data.

 

And yes, that graph means that the DCS huey requires more engine power to achieve a 2ft hover than the real thing needs to hover out of ground effect within the stated MTOW of 9500lbs.


Edited by Tim_Fragmagnet
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Just because they call it the "engine model", I wouldn't necessarily believe it only covers the engine. For example, before the last update the throttle was behaving differently whether you were on the ground or in the air, so it clearly had some connection to an imaginary "weight on skids" switch (the real Huey certainly has no such feature). Why they would have anything be different on the ground vs. in the air I can't imagine, but there's clearly some weird stuff going on in there. (Remember, this is all fake, not reality.)

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5 hours ago, SMH said:

Just because they call it the "engine model", I wouldn't necessarily believe it only covers the engine. For example, before the last update the throttle was behaving differently whether you were on the ground or in the air, so it clearly had some connection to an imaginary "weight on skids" switch (the real Huey certainly has no such feature). Why they would have anything be different on the ground vs. in the air I can't imagine, but there's clearly some weird stuff going on in there. (Remember, this is all fake, not reality.)

The huey has no weight on skids feature, no.

But what it does have is the RPM governor, which is part of the throttle control for the engine. This system is designed to automatically control the engine throttle to keep the RPM of the engine, and thus the rotor, high enough, without going too high. As the torque is increased (the RPM decreases), the governor bumps up the throttle to attempt to maintain engine RPM.
Additionally, the droop compensation system exists as well, it is directly connected to the collective. Effectively it is a lever that raises as you raise the collective to automatically raise the throttle as well, effectively mechanically automating part of the (already mechanically automated) governor which would otherwise lag behind.

Now here's the kicker. What doesn't really change while on the ground? Torque, you're either idling the rotor, or raising the collective to increase blade pitch, at which point you gain lift and thus flight with weight no longer on the skids.

A bug in the governor system caused that funky behavior, to happen while on the ground but not in flight. Once you're in flight, the governor is already compensating with the throttle. The engine parameters had been changed, but the governor had not been corrected for this change.

Effectively while idling on the ground, the correction applied by the governor is zero. The moment you start applying torque, the governor kicks in. The total range of correction available to be applied by the governor was set to an incorrect value thus causing the sudden massive surge of power, allowing you to fly in impossible configurations.

In short. It's DCS, it's a simulator. Nothing works exactly like it does IRL, there's funny 20-30 year old coding going on to make sure of that.
That funny throttle behavior was likely just an oversight caused by the huey's engine/performance not being majorly modified effectively since launch a decade ago.

Overall, the current major issue with the huey is the volume of thrust generated by the rotor for any given amount of engine power.


Edited by Tim_Fragmagnet
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8 hours ago, Tim_Fragmagnet said:


A bug in the governor system caused that funky behavior, to happen while on the ground but not in flight. Once you're in flight, the governor is already compensating with the throttle. The engine parameters had been changed, but the governor had not been corrected for this change.

Effectively while idling on the ground, the correction applied by the governor is zero. The moment you start applying torque, the governor kicks in. The total range of correction available to be applied by the governor was set to an incorrect value thus causing the sudden massive surge of power, allowing you to fly in impossible configurations.
 

 

This is my entire point. 1. It's all fake so don't expect the rules of reality to apply. 2. There was clearly a connection between being on the ground and the behavior of the throttle/governor. (And I maintain it was throttle because you couldn't chop the throttle once in flight. The governor only ever gives you LESS power than the throttle setting will allow, not more.) And the whole reason I brought that up again (as it's already been fixed in the new engine model) is just to illustrate point #1.

I wish they'd just put it back to as it was. The only thing that was wrong before was the RPM needles didn't split when the throttle was chopped (but there was no corresponding drag effect on the rotor as far as I could tell, so it was merely a visual/instrumentation bug). This behavior is still happening in both versions of the engine-model, so I'm not sure what they even fixed or why. It was excellent and plausible before.

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