cannot reproduce 4 consecutive misses using laser. Can anyone help me?

[Aoi Kaze]

Hi all. I'm quite frustrated because there is a mission where my GBU-12's constantly miss. I dropped a million laser bombs and never had a problem, so I know the drill more or less well enough. But there is a mission where I never achieve hitting the target (sometimes the land quite far away from it), in spite of me lasering the whole fall without any problem. And since it is a mission that starts from cold, and need about 45 mins to arrive to the dropping area, I am enormously frustrated right now.
And I think it is linked to some problems I had when I was even more vanilla, which is as following: let's say the steerpoint is placed somewhere near but not exactly above the target. Even when I used the TGP for selecting the target (and of course, lasering it), maybe... maybe, it is calculating the CCRP having the steerpoint in mind, not the information the TGP is providing. So I thought using the coordinates the TGP gives and creating some specific markpoint, turning it into a new steerpoint (you know, some #26 steerpoint) and using it. Failure again.

Does it ring a bell to any of you? I didn't change the laser code when starting up, but no one else is lasering around... Frustrated as hell
Thanks in advance!

[Aoi Kaze]

UPDATE:
In a different mission, a training mission I created and flown a million times, it keeps on failing. Both gbu-12's and 24's. It's obvious they are not following the laser. It never ever happened to me before. Does anybody have a clue?

[Sinclair_76]

Just to be sure. Is the GBU-12 laser PRF on the kneeboard the same as the TGP laser PRF (DED, LIST,0,5)?

The bomb laser PRF can be adjusted in the mission editor and can therefore be different than what you expect.

 

Tested a standard CCRP drop with a GBU-12 and it worked fine for me. Do you have a track file to help you determine what might be the issue?

Edited May 27, 2023 by Sinclair_76

[Viciam1]

I missed one yesterday. Not sure why. Did everything right. One missed and one hit. Again like you have dropped millions and have always been super

[skywalker22]

ED coded the RL possibility of random hardware error or malfunction. That's why these missies.

@Aoi Kazefor more help, please paste your track here.

[=52d= Skip]

20 minutes ago, skywalker22 said:

ED coded the RL possibility of random hardware error or malfunction. That's why these missies.

@Aoi Kazefor more help, please paste your track here.

 

No they didn´t.

Any isolated event is most likely user error. But without a track file or the mission itself everything here is speculation.

[skywalker22]

20 minutes ago, =52d= Skip said:

No they didn´t.

[_SteelFalcon_]

Multiple options why you miss:

laser code is not set correctly

laser is off

Other assets using the same laser code in the area dragging your bomb off target

 

if you play MP, i‘d advise to change the bomb codes before startup, just to avoid lasing on 1688 like 99.9% of people

 

[Aoi Kaze]

Hi, guys. I appreciate the comments.

Any malfunction could happen in one mission, not in two different setups, maps and on several ocassions. As I said, I didn't check the laser code, although I tried in a training mission I created where I praticed it a lot and where it always worked with the basic code. Somehow this is new. I've done it many times before and it is since yesterday it doesn't work properly.

Different mission / different map / different ordinance. Laser was on (actually I was lasering the whole time in every ocassion), it was single player and I was the only plane flying in both missions, so no interferences from other guys.

I don't know if it's related anyhow, but I'm having problems with other ordinance at the same time. It's been a few days since I cannot use GBU-97's because if I turned them in CCRP, program crashes. I added it to the bugs section. In this case, nothing crashes it is just as if the bombs couldn't see the laser, but I wonder if it could be related. Each of those problems are weird enough, but both at the same time...

I will play it later and upload the track file (stupid question, is it the same kind of file that TacView uses or another? I never uploaded any track)
Thank you all.

Edited May 27, 2023 by Aoi Kaze

[=52d= Skip]

32 minutes ago, Aoi Kaze said:

 

I will play it later and upload the track file (stupid question, is it the same kind of file that TacView uses or another? I never uploaded any track)
Thank you all.

 

After you end the mission, in the debrief screen, you can see a button that says "save as track file" or something like that. This one has a *.trk extension and you can attach it here if it´s not too big.

 

[Aoi Kaze]

hace 1 minuto, =52d= Skip dijo:

After you end the mission, in the debrief screen, you can see a button that says "save as track file" or something like that. This one has a *.trk extension and you can attach it here if it´s not too big.

 

Thanks, pal. I'll do it as told!

[=52d= Skip]

So, I did run a quick test and indeed my bombs never picked up the laser (both with 1688 & 1655). However, I do run a modded version and am too lazy to set up a complete test environment right now.

I do wonder why noone else has reported any issues so far. Did anyone of the posters in this thread actually tried it with the latest beta?

[Sinclair_76]

Yup.

I run a couple of mods.

C-130

MAD

SAM asset pack

High Digit Sams

 

 

No problems with code 1531.

[buceador]

1 hour ago, =52d= Skip said:

So, I did run a quick test and indeed my bombs never picked up the laser (both with 1688 & 1655). However, I do run a modded version and am too lazy to set up a complete test environment right now.

I do wonder why noone else has reported any issues so far. Did anyone of the posters in this thread actually tried it with the latest beta?

As perhaps you remember I was having problems with bomb release but once that was sorted I had no problems with the bombs following the laser (1688) and I have many mods installed.

[Aoi Kaze]

Hi all, I tried again, still the same result.
I changed laser code to 1531 as @Sinclair_76 put it as an example. Didn't work with gbu-12 nor 24.

I missed the first try, so if you watch the track, please be forgiving. It makes me a little nervous being watched by the DCS community. I tried them in DTOS in case it was a problem with the asignment of the target. Everything works as usual, still it doesn't work.

I didn't disable all my mods, just the one I thought it could create conflict (f-16 sufa and weaponry), but even with the latter, it always worked and this is new from yesterday. No updates since last week, so I don't know.

Waiting for your comments, thanks.

wronglaser.trk

[TobiasA]

You need to use the laser code that you can find in your kneeboard.

Often, it is 1688 but this might be totally different. The kneeboatd page will tell you which one to use, and it can only be changed with a screwdriver by the ground crew (the 16 is one of the modules that is realistic about that), so engine off and on the ground.

Maybe I can watch the track later.

There are no random failures if you did not enable them. LGB's hit if released within parameters. Unless someone else is lasing on the same code, then funny things will happen.

[Aoi Kaze]

Justo ahora, TobiasA dijo:

You need to use the laser code that you can find in your kneeboard.

Often, it is 1688 but this might be totally different. The kneeboatd page will tell you which one to use, and it can only be changed with a screwdriver by the ground crew (the 16 is one of the modules that is realistic about that), so engine off and on the ground.

Maybe I can watch the track later.

There are no random failures if you did not enable them. LGB's hit if released within parameters. Unless someone else is lasing on the same code, then funny things will happen.

Man, I changed the code (just in case) and used the new code and still didn't work. This is no random failure this is like 20 bombs constant failure.

[skywalker22]

Remove all the modes and do the dcs repair, then try again. It all works fine for me u know.

[Aoi Kaze]

hace 16 minutos, skywalker22 dijo:

Remove all the modes and do the dcs repair, then try again. It all works fine for me u know.

Yeah, I know but I'd like to take it as the very last option. Anyways, how do you do it? And if you make a repair, you loose all your keybindings and hotas configuration?

[skywalker22]

Repair will not remove any additional content, CleanUp will.

[TobiasA]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb Aoi Kaze:

Yeah, I know but I'd like to take it as the very last option. Anyways, how do you do it? And if you make a repair, you loose all your keybindings and hotas configuration?

You don't loose anything, those are in your saved games folder.

A backup doesn't hurt though.

[TobiasA]

vor 58 Minuten schrieb Aoi Kaze:

Hi all, I tried again, still the same result.
I changed laser code to 1531 as @Sinclair_76 put it as an example. Didn't work with gbu-12 nor 24.

I missed the first try, so if you watch the track, please be forgiving. It makes me a little nervous being watched by the DCS community. I tried them in DTOS in case it was a problem with the asignment of the target. Everything works as usual, still it doesn't work.

I didn't disable all my mods, just the one I thought it could create conflict (f-16 sufa and weaponry), but even with the latter, it always worked and this is new from yesterday. No updates since last week, so I don't know.

Waiting for your comments, thanks.

wronglaser.trk 2.88 MB · 2 Downloads

Your laser code is correct, but the track is a bit strange.
You crash into the ground after the second drop, neither of the drops do happen in the track.

But I noticed two things:
- You don't see to hold until release... But that might be a track issue
- You drop in DTOS. You should do it in CCRP.

[Aoi Kaze]

hace 38 minutos, TobiasA dijo:

Your laser code is correct, but the track is a bit strange.
You crash into the ground after the second drop, neither of the drops do happen in the track.

But I noticed two things:
- You don't see to hold until release... But that might be a track issue
- You drop in DTOS. You should do it in CCRP.

That seems like the typical track error. I didn't crash and I dropped 1 gbu-12 and one GBU-24 before I stopped the mission.

In a previous message I said I did that on DTOS just to see if it was a problem with the targeting with the steerpoint. I tried many times before in CCRP and the result was the same. Anyways, it should work in DTOS as well.

I hold the release button before dropping them, but it would mean a problem in dropping the bombs. The bombs relase well, they simply ignore the laser...

[TobiasA]

GBU-12-GBU-24.trk

vor einer Stunde schrieb Aoi Kaze:

Man, I changed the code (just in case) and used the new code and still didn't work. This is no random failure this is like 20 bombs constant failure.

I took your track and continued when you rolled in to the target.
Some notes:
- First of all, you should use CCRP. I don't know if DTOS works for LGB's, it should, I think but... I don't know. CCRP is a safe bet. CCIP will almost always miss.
- I don't know if you had the TGP as SOI, but it should be
- Most people that come to the F-16 mistake the pull-up cue for the release cue. The first flashing with the two lines intersecting each other (one from above, one from the bottom) is the pullup cue. If you pull up at about 4G, you will reach the desired release angle at the moment you achieve a drop solution. I did one level release with the GBU-12 on the original setting pf 30 degrees, ignoring the pullup cue, continuing straight ahead and holding pickle until the bomb is released. The second one is with a 10° loft angle, you can see (at least I hope so) that I pull up on the cue and end on 10° climb when the bomb is released.
I then bank a bit to the right, as the TGP is located on the right chin hardpoint to avoid masking the pod (GBU-10/12 aren't prone to that). Lasing is auto-lase, 8s prior to impact. I don't touch the first detent, so each time the laser code is flashing I am holding either release (which will trigger laser ranging) or the auto lase function is active.
- The GBU-24 are a different game, as they require you to lase all the way down. You can't loft these in DCS (in real life, I am pretty sure you can), so any physical release angle above 8 degrees will not have a release. The loft cue is just a cue, but I usually set that to a range so I will have it at the top of my dynamic launch zone (rule of thumb: 7-8nm at 20000ft altitude). But anyway... Release angle is usually 0 for me. On this one, I release it in usual CCRP, lase after release until I see an impact (first trigger detent) and I gently turn left after release, to be followed by a long right bank to avoid masking the TGP. I often throttle down as well to avoid passing over the target and then masking my TGP. There might be a more sophisticated approach and some more magic in the range cue but... I rarely use the 24.

I hope my track helps. Put it in the track folder, choose "replay" in the main menu and load the file.

If you have further questions, feel free to ask. I am happy for anyone learning the F-16, because it's an awesome plane. I won't blame anyone for asking questions.

[Aoi Kaze]

hace 1 hora, skywalker22 dijo:

Repair will not remove any additional content, CleanUp will.

Ok, I did cleanup and repair. Both my problems with the laser and the gbu-97's seem to be gone (still it failed one gbu-12, which it shouldn't but the other 5 went fine), so I thank you all for it. Still, some of my mods are necessary (many of my missions depend on them), so I guess now I have to be testing one by one. One question, when cleaning up I found something I forgot and it asked me if I wanted to back up it. Any idea where that backup would be?

Thanks to you all for your time and kindness!