Crosswind takoff / landing - disabling NWS completely?

[gulredrel]

Hello,

I guess, it's mostly a thing of not feeling the plane and therefor overcorrecting in the sim. Having a crosswind during takeoff or landing, I tend to overcorrect with NWS even in low gain and get into oscillation.

Tried with completely setting the NWS to off with the guarded switch and this is much more helpful as you gain speed fast enough to get rudder authority.

I don't think that adding curves or something will help as these will made the rudder less predictable in other situations than takeoff / landing.

What are your thoughts about?

Thanks

Jens

[Bremspropeller]

3 minutes ago, gulredrel said:

I don't think that adding curves or something will help as these will made the rudder less predictable in other situations than takeoff / landing.

What are your thoughts about?

Curves might actually make it worse, as the NWS is lagging significantly behinnd the input, so you're bound to use more than necessary on your second correction, leading to a gator-roll in the dirt if you don't manage to get up or get her stopped in time.

I haven't found a conclusive fix other than using the killswitch for the NWS or trying very hard at anticipating the aircraft-reaction during my inputs.

[gulredrel]

1 hour ago, Bremspropeller said:

Curves might actually make it worse, as the NWS is lagging significantly behinnd the input, so you're bound to use more than necessary on your second correction, leading to a gator-roll in the dirt if you don't manage to get up or get her stopped in time.

I haven't found a conclusive fix other than using the killswitch for the NWS or trying very hard at anticipating the aircraft-reaction during my inputs.

Thanks for backing up my theory here. Without feeling the starting movement this anticipation is almost impossible especially in chaning wind conditions. So I'll stick to the NWS kill switch when in heavier crosswinds. Just need a hotkey to enable the NWS again when slowing down.

[Bananabrai]

In the Viggen slight differential breaking is working as well.
Could work as well.

I always disable the NWS in most planes, F1, M2000, F-15E, F/A-18, F-16...
Mostly at 60 knots or even earlier, as soon as I know its rolling relatively straight.

[gnomechild]

20 hours ago, gulredrel said:

What are your thoughts about?

I have no idea how terrible of an idea this would be IRL, but I do the same thing. I don't know if it's just me being new to pedals, or my curve setup, or just me. But the F1 NWS is very dangerous for me on take-off. I can make-do with low gain but have a much easier time taking off with NWS fully disabled. I don't have this issue in any other plane. Even the Mosquito lol

[gulredrel]

54 minutes ago, gnomechild said:

But the F1 NWS is very dangerous for me on take-off. I can make-do with low gain but have a much easier time taking off with NWS fully disabled.

Thanks. Exactly what I was thinking.

In most if the other jets you have the pinky finger switch on the stick to disable NWS at a certain speed or the Hornet with the paddle. In this I also disable NWS after touchdown on the field and only after having slowed down I enable NWS low gain again.

[markturner1960]

I think its a DCS thing......ground handling of all the modules I own is terrible once you get above taxying speed and there is ANY wind involved........It's like trying to steer a supermarket trolley with a broken wheel and I simply cannot believe that it is that difficult IRL....in fact I know so, as I fly at Shadowlands online school, led by an ex RAF fast jet trainer, Tim Davies, and he says what I say.....

Trouble is, I dont really know how best to address it within the sim.....nor it seems does anyone else.......

 

[grim_reaper68]

For correction at higher speed, I use small and fast inputs on the brakes to maintain the aircraft on the runway. I always deactivate NWS at the takeoff.

[Booka42]

Just my 2 cents: a +25 curve for my Thrustmaster TPR rudders really alleviated this matter for me. Big problem before.

[Nealius]

On 8/26/2023 at 7:25 PM, markturner1960 said:

I think its a DCS thing......ground handling of all the modules I own is terrible once you get above taxying speed and there is ANY wind involved........It's like trying to steer a supermarket trolley with a broken wheel and I simply cannot believe that it is that difficult IRL...

I don't remember having steering issues in Piper Cherokees at an airfield that was notorious for crosswinds, but that was decades ago. That said, stay around the forums long enough (and with enough modules) and issues with tire friction modeling in DCS come up quite frequently. Warbirds (notably the K-4), Viper, recently the Tomcat and Apache as well. 

[Capt_Haddock]

Same here. I always disable the nose steering under the guard switch before take off. 
Which doesn't help on landings, as the differential braking is also super efficient and it's really easy to tip over one side of the nose, or, if not using the brakes, veer away from the runway as the rudder does nothing. Sweat inducing in any case!

Will try the +25 curve on the rudder. Maybe that's a better solution...

[Capt_Haddock]

My rudder was already at +35... 

[Bremspropeller]

The moment of truth on landing is when you can't hold the nose up any longer with 75% of rudder in and wondering, what kind of space-magic to perform, to not end up gator-rolling off the runway.

NWS on, that is. No matter which gain.

[IvanK]

Err why would you be wanting to hold the nose off with 75% rudder in ?

[Bremspropeller]

To aerobrake and tracking CL.

[IvanK]

The fact is once the chute is deployed Aerobraking is of dubious to almost useless value (As shown by Flight test data). Secondly if you have a directional issue you want to get the nose down ASAP.... Tricycle is better than bipedal.  Thirdly in most Chute equipped aeroplanes the recommendation is to drop the chute if you run into directional difficulties ... from crosswind.

[gulredrel]

On long runways you maybe won't use the chute and aerobrake instead.

[Bremspropeller]

10 hours ago, IvanK said:

The fact is once the chute is deployed Aerobraking is of dubious to almost useless value (As shown by Flight test data). Secondly if you have a directional issue you want to get the nose down ASAP.... Tricycle is better than bipedal.  Thirdly in most Chute equipped aeroplanes the recommendation is to drop the chute if you run into directional difficulties ... from crosswind.

I'm only throwing the chute after the nose is down.

The technique I'm using results from controllability (overcontrolling) issues at high speeds, so I'm trying to keep the nose off as long as possible.

I'm not using the chute right away, because experience shows that if the nose comes down at high speed, it's incredibly easy to get into PIO. Especially if the chute tries to weathervane me into the wind.

[Loukuins]

13 hours ago, IvanK said:

The fact is once the chute is deployed Aerobraking is of dubious to almost useless value (As shown by Flight test data). Secondly if you have a directional issue you want to get the nose down ASAP.... Tricycle is better than bipedal.  Thirdly in most Chute equipped aeroplanes the recommendation is to drop the chute if you run into directional difficulties ... from crosswind.

In the manual it's said that it is advised to do airbraking, at least to the ones I have, AFAIK the parachute is not always used since it cost money and the plane can in 90% of the time land without it, also there is a bug when braking the plane will ALWAYS go right or left and shouldn't happen since there is a system to mitigate that in the real plane.

The directions issues that most people have is that braking is broken on the F1 since launch sadly... 

Edited October 2, 2023 by Loukuins

[IvanK]

Drag chute use is best at high speed (once below max deployment speed) max drag effect.

Drag Chute use in strong crosswind induces directional control issues. 

Any time you run into directional control issues you want all your gear on the ground.

Aerodynamic braking is of little real effect if the drag chute is deployed

Brakes cost more than drag chutes.

Edited October 2, 2023 by IvanK

[Loukuins]

18 hours ago, IvanK said:

Drag chute use is best at high speed (once below max deployment speed) max drag effect.

Drag Chute use in strong crosswind induces directional control issues. 

Any time you run into directional control issues you want all your gear on the ground.

Aerodynamic braking is of little real effect if the drag chute is deployed

Brakes cost more than drag chutes.

 

The Drag chute is only used with high speed approach, the manual says below 11T on final you don't need the parachute and the brake are the MAIN braking method on the F1.

[lesthegrngo]

Just seen this topic after seeing exactly the same with my MFG Crosswind pedals on the A10. During taxi, if I breathe on the pedals it will veer that way. The old Saitek pedals were nowhere near as sensitive. I've tried adjusting the axis in controls, adding a curve with very little sensitivity around d the center but it seems to make no difference in game

So there is no way to set NWS sensitivity as a separate parameter?

Les

Edited October 8, 2023 by lesthegrngo