Lipfert Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 It will also be a DVD release, not sure if a CD release is coming or not. Folks are guessing it's going to have S-F because of a statement in the Gold release announcement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raf_kichu Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 ... and you can see SH3 cd images being distributed via one of the point to point networks. Im just wondering what's the point of getting that kind of piracy protection, which can be broken and is pain in the ass to the many of legitimate users (StarForce). As a legitimate software user I want to use the software with the same ease as if it had not any software protection at all. Which means that it should be completely transparent for me and shouldn't affect ANY other fuctionality of my computer. Other concepts are just broken by design I think. First they treat the legitimate users as a pirate, they force him to do things that the pirate doesn't have to do (despite he pays for the software) and sometimes this gets the legitimate user with troubles the pirate doesn't have. I want to be okay, I pay... and they get me troubles instead of trouble-free software. I this case I won't get the illegal copy, but I dont think I buy the original either. alien studio productions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schimmel Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 Same for Colin McRae 2005 btw. SF 3.0... was available on P2P networks only 5 days after release. I know because I just compared both dates on the official homepage and some p2p linking site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigfoot209th Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 What is this, Super Hornet 3? I can find nothing on google... Was there a Super Hornet 2? From Digital Interactive? :rolleyes: ------------------ Wingmen should pretty much stick to two radio transmissions, "Two." or "Sir, you're on fire." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisha Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 What is this, Super Hornet 3? I can find nothing on google... Was there a Super Hornet 2? From Digital Interactive? :rolleyes: Silent Hunter 3 :D http://www.silenthunteriii.com/uk/home.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigfoot209th Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 darn...I was half hoping I had missed something on the near horizon that involved carrier landings...dammit....heheh thx ------------------ Wingmen should pretty much stick to two radio transmissions, "Two." or "Sir, you're on fire." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jester_159th Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 ... and you can see SH3 cd images being distributed via one of the point to point networks. Im just wondering what's the point of getting that kind of piracy protection, which can be broken and is pain in the ass to the many of legitimate users (StarForce). (EDITED) Yes..And the SO CALLED SH3 CD1 image is apparently 643MB in size where as the actual program is somewhat bigger than that (approx 2GB according to the SH3 forums). Also, considering the game has only just gone gold yesterday and has not actually been released yet, would you care to take a guess as to how the pirates got hold of it? Considering what their community is like news of any leak would have hit the forums very quickly. The game is being released on DVD only BTW. No multi disc CD version is planned at the moment. And I've seen no mention of Starforce on their official (Ubi) forums whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raf_kichu Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 ... and you can see SH3 cd images being distributed via one of the point to point networks. Im just wondering what's the point of getting that kind of piracy protection, which can be broken and is pain in the ass to the many of legitimate users (StarForce). (EDITED) [...] Also, considering the game has only just gone gold yesterday and has not actually been released yet, would you care to take a guess as to how the pirates got hold of it? Considering what their community is like news of any leak would have hit the forums very quickly. I dont know if and how pirates got hold of it. You might want to try get those files to see if they are fake or not. I dont care. I want the original but with no or with the protection that don't affect my playing and Windows system. I dont consider Star Force being that kind of protection. And speaking about games leaking to the pirates... you dont have to look very far. I recently got a game called Dangerous Waters (modern naval sim). Was happy to pay for the original with printed manual etc. etc. Recently when browing one of DWaters forums I spotted the message written by one of the Sonalysts (game author) representative, that the pirates got the game somehow before it was officialy released. When looking at all of this... one starts to think of software piracy as one of the world oldest jobs (next to spies and prostitotion...). Sigh... And speaking general... I just dont like the tendency... the software companies put copy protection mechanisms that are tha pain for the users... and the users say its for their own good. It is as someone put you into the prison because somebody else is stealing something... A non-sense... If the users (and customers) went and said... no we dont buy the game if its going to harras our computers usability... the developer/publisher would have to rethink something. Take a look at 'The Sims 2' case... the people were complaining and the company had to remove some protections. My 0.02 alien studio productions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jester_159th Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 I'll certainly not be downloading it. As one method of protecting my PC I don't download anything from sites hosting pirate software. I would much rather wait two more weeks for a genuine copy. As it is, there is no way it could be the actual game. Think about it. The "so called" pirate version, as I said earlier is supposed to be about 640MB. If that awas the actual game, why on earth would Ubi (penny pinchers that they are...remember the "we can't afford the 3rd CD for Pacific Fighters" debacle?) put out a game on DVD that tehy could fit on a single CD? It just wouldn't happen. And although this supposed pirated version is called SH3 CD1 there has been no mention I've seen of a CD2 or CD3. I can understand your point about copy protection, but unfortunately developers have to do whatever they can to protect their investment. Hopefully one day a copy protection system will be produced that'll be both transparant and near fool proof. But that day is yet to come (if it ever does). Therefore (purely a personal opinion here) we have to bite the bullet for the time being if we want the small independant developers to stay in business. It's a sad fact of life that it is usually the inocent majority that suffer for the actions of a guilty minority. It happens in nearly all walks of life to some extent. Hopefully though the developers will take note of the feelings of their legitimate customers and make finding some form of non-intrusive copy protection a priority. If they do, things will improve. Personally, as much as I don't like the idea of intrusive copy protection, I'm prepared to put up with it if it means the independants stay alive. I would much rather do this and be left with either Ubi or Microsoft having a monopoly in this genre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raf_kichu Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 I can understand your point about copy protection, but unfortunately developers have to do whatever they can to protect their investment. Hopefully one day a copy protection system will be produced that'll be both transparant and near fool proof. But that day is yet to come (if it ever does). Actually the most "funny" things about copy protection is that this just prevents joe average user from making a backup copy or 'making a copy for an unaware friend' piracy. Those who want to pirate software will find and or do it. No need to explain this, I think. The bad thing is that the copy-protection campaign is getting more and more intrusive in terms of controlling the user. Its either freedom and trust or just control. There ain't such a thing as "I trust you and control you". Nice article showing where we could get in the near future: http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/article/1765/ Enjoy! ;) alien studio productions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haele Posted March 4, 2005 Share Posted March 4, 2005 ... and you can see SH3 cd images being distributed via one of the point to point networks. Im just wondering what's the point of getting that kind of piracy protection, which can be broken and is pain in the ass to the many of legitimate users (StarForce). (EDITED) Yes..And the SO CALLED SH3 CD1 image is apparently 643MB in size where as the actual program is somewhat bigger than that (approx 2GB according to the SH3 forums). Also, considering the game has only just gone gold yesterday and has not actually been released yet, would you care to take a guess as to how the pirates got hold of it? Considering what their community is like news of any leak would have hit the forums very quickly. The game is being released on DVD only BTW. No multi disc CD version is planned at the moment. And I've seen no mention of Starforce on their official (Ubi) forums whatsoever. The CD images for SHIII will be a late beta build. Which also may not have had copy protection initially before it was released on P2P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jester_159th Posted March 4, 2005 Share Posted March 4, 2005 Re: RAF-Kichu's link in the post one above this: Let's hope that's an extreme example!! Kind of makes Starforce look like our favorite aunty doesn't it? Seriously though, that is the perfect example of my point earlier about the innocent majority suffering for the guilty minority. The copy protection is hacked, so the publishers use stricter controls, which then get hacked. It is, I'm afraid, a viscious circle. I'm personally fully in support of a publisher and/or developer having the right to protect their investment. But I have to admit that in some cases (such as the link you posted) it does seem like the honest majority (which is usually also the silent majority) is being overlooked as the copy protection designers develop tunnel vision and concentrate purely on thwarting the pirates while showing little or no regard for everyone else. That being the case, although I personally wasn't too concerned about Starforce and was annoyed that the release of FC was delayed again, I am glad to see that ED listened to the community and took action. If the developers keep listening then hopefully the future will be bright. However we, as the customer, have to be prepared to accept that this isn't an ideal world and there will be a line that any competent businessman has to draw in how far he will risk his investment to piracy. My hope is that the developers are becoming aware that a number of their potential customers are unhappy with intrusive copy protection and will pressure the copy protection designers to come up with less intrusive methods of supplying the same level of security. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gel214th Posted March 4, 2005 Share Posted March 4, 2005 The game is being released on DVD only BTW. No multi disc CD version is planned at the moment. this "so called" pirate version There is a No - DVD (if it makes you feel better) patch for SH3 out already. The copy protection,whatever it is, has been cracked. If one is to ask 'how' the pirates managed to release it when it only went gold and think this is some sort of protection or timeline for when games are released to wares, then one isn't very informed about how these warez circles and distribution networks work.Countless numbers of games are available on Warez sites before they are even released in stores. Do you know a game by the name Half Life 2? How about Doom 3? Those ring a bell? By the time the games hit the P2P they have already been available for sometime on other dedicated warez servers. So the fact the game only went gold X days ago, is absolutely no reason why it cannot be available over P2P networks, newsgroups, or dedicated warez servers. As for the rest, consumers should fight hard against any legislation or moves that limit the freedom of their Fair Use rights to the products which they purchase. Whether it is broadcast television and manufacturers being FORCED to support a 'broadcast' flag which effectively prevents you from recording a show off television, or mandatory digital rights management on everyone's computer. These measures are draconian and are in no way meant to protect the consumer, the artists, or the developers. THey are meant to protect business monopolies that currently exist and which are fighting to preserve their monopolies and legitimise their way of doing business through legilature. In the end it is the consumer that will suffer tremendously if these measures are passed. It is the reason why several artists are grouping to provide a counter lobby group to allow P2P networks to grow and flourish, because the smart among them see it as a legitamate means of getting out from under the thumb of the RIAA,the MPAA, and the major game Publishers who take the majority of the profit from these artists, developers, movie producers etc. The stupid buy into the propaganda that P2P file sharing so drastically harms the music industry, when every independent survey ever taken shows totally the opposite, and DVD and CD sales continue to climb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lipfert Posted March 4, 2005 Author Share Posted March 4, 2005 Funny thing is my burner is not even on my gaming system, are they not smart enough to realize most gamers these day's have a dedicated gaming system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haele Posted March 4, 2005 Share Posted March 4, 2005 Funny thing is my burner is not even on my gaming system, are they not smart enough to realize most gamers these day's have a dedicated gaming system? That is a hugely presumptuous and very probably vastly inaccurate statement to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lipfert Posted March 4, 2005 Author Share Posted March 4, 2005 Funny thing is my burner is not even on my gaming system, are they not smart enough to realize most gamers these day's have a dedicated gaming system? That is a hugely presumptuous and very probably vastly inaccurate statement to make. Beater systems are cheap, heck most real gamers have parts all over the place from purchasing upgrades. If I'm working, I don't use my gaming system. I have a mid range box made from left overs. You don't need a rocketship for using a burner, MS-Office or reading email. Based on my squad, I can tell you 80% of the members have more than one computer. We've even had members send equipment to other members who don't have something (TiR for example). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lipfert Posted March 5, 2005 Author Share Posted March 5, 2005 Broadband Reports Article on StarForce: http://www.broadbandreports.com/shownews/48427 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmut Posted March 5, 2005 Share Posted March 5, 2005 Broadband Reports Article on StarForce: http://www.broadbandreports.com/shownews/48427 very un-professional article. Author didn't understood how it works and all article is based on user opinions: "Users in our forums have grown increasingly irritated...", "Users report...", "...complains a user at <Gone Gold>", most funny one: "Users have developed this cleanup utility" - it was developed by SF company from the start. "The software also collects system information and creates an error report should anything go wrong." - author didn't even bother to test it. SF sends error information not quietly but only by user request, like Windows\Office\big-company-products does. "There are five dangerous faults which may affect a general: recklessness, which leads to destruction; cowardice, which leads to capture; a hasty temper, which can be provoked by insults; a delicacy of honor which is sensitive to shame; over-solicitude for his men, which exposes him to worry and trouble." Sun Tzu [sigpic]http://forums.eagle.ru/signaturepics/sigpic2354_5.gif[/sigpic] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lipfert Posted March 5, 2005 Author Share Posted March 5, 2005 Broadband Reports Article on StarForce: http://www.broadbandreports.com/shownews/48427 very un-professional article. Author didn't understood how it works and all article is based on user opinions: "Users in our forums have grown increasingly irritated...", "Users report...", "...complains a user at <Gone Gold>", most funny one: "Users have developed this cleanup utility" - it was developed by SF company from the start. "The software also collects system information and creates an error report should anything go wrong." - author didn't even bother to test it. SF sends error information not quietly but only by user request, like Windows\Office\big-company-products does. Dmut, User opinions are important. Broadband Reports monitors user opinions who have purchased Broadband and other services. And the utility that was on the link, is not the one from StarForce. The Article comments on the negative postings, right or wrong on the Forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmut Posted March 5, 2005 Share Posted March 5, 2005 IMHO, if pespectfull site is publishing its arcticle just quoting a users from forums, without any comments, explanations or refutations, then it is doing a mistake. This broadbandreports.com site called itself "The 'bible' for Information on DSL, Cable and Other High Speed Internet Services". What so 'bible' in it, if they just quoting "unhappy" users from forums? I didn't read other articles on that site, may be they are good. But not this one, since someone hardly learn anything usefull from it. Well, nothing personal. it is only my opinion. I could be wrong. "There are five dangerous faults which may affect a general: recklessness, which leads to destruction; cowardice, which leads to capture; a hasty temper, which can be provoked by insults; a delicacy of honor which is sensitive to shame; over-solicitude for his men, which exposes him to worry and trouble." Sun Tzu [sigpic]http://forums.eagle.ru/signaturepics/sigpic2354_5.gif[/sigpic] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gel214th Posted March 5, 2005 Share Posted March 5, 2005 IMHO, if pespectfull site is publishing its arcticle just quoting a users from forums, without any comments, explanations or refutations, then it is doing a mistake. This broadbandreports.com site called itself "The 'bible' for Information on DSL, Cable and Other High Speed Internet Services". What so 'bible' in it, if they just quoting "unhappy" users from forums? I didn't read other articles on that site, may be they are good. But not this one, since someone hardly learn anything usefull from it. Well, nothing personal. it is only my opinion. I could be wrong. "Users report that the software gobbles up computing cycles, slows CD drive read-times, creates CD-R read errors even after removal, and is responsible for a number of device conflicts - particularly with external USB drives. Users who have tried to remove the product manually have often damaged their systems to the point of needing a fresh OS install. If users aren't irritated by the system issues, the unannounced installation, or the privacy implications of such a program, they usually are bothered to learn that the drivers are not removed when a user removes the host application. Users also aren't alerted to the driver installation by the end-user license agreement present in most of the games that employ the protection technology. " Who else is going to report these things Dmut? If software messes up a computer, who reports it? Not the users? You expect StarForce to report these problems with its software? Starforce already has in a way by admitting to needing patches to fix 'compatibility problems'. You shouldn't have to release several patches for system compatibility problems for a darn game copy protection. It's that simple. That alone should show anyone employing some degree of critical thinking on the subject that there *are* problems with Starforce. Security sites *have* released warnings about the software. What more proof that all isn't a-ok with this copy protection, and it is the ONLY Copy protection mechanism so criticised, and it is STILL cracked within a short time after game release? You lend more credence to the Company's own PR? You must get ripped off a lot as a consumer if the only thing you pay attention to is company PR. Since you don't consider with what your fellow users say I suppose you would never visit E-pinions.org, and hold no stock in the findings of Consumer Report and Consumer Review. The company's PR that its products haven't been cracked is bs. I wonder what else is bs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmut Posted March 5, 2005 Share Posted March 5, 2005 I'm not saying user's opinion is bad things, they just sometimes incorrect and it is up to authors of article to learn and correct them or not do that. I imagine such user reports: "I bought this new car and now I getting problems with my wife. Car manufacturers must do something with this!" "I've installed a new videocard and my mouse pad becomes uncomfortable! Damn videocard!" I'm not a SF's PR manager. I'm not releated to SF company nor game industry at all. I'm tired of all that SF-discussions. I'm over. "There are five dangerous faults which may affect a general: recklessness, which leads to destruction; cowardice, which leads to capture; a hasty temper, which can be provoked by insults; a delicacy of honor which is sensitive to shame; over-solicitude for his men, which exposes him to worry and trouble." Sun Tzu [sigpic]http://forums.eagle.ru/signaturepics/sigpic2354_5.gif[/sigpic] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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