[bug]between auto Hover and Fligh director

[Skypat]

Hello all

 

(1)- i'am in autohover mode

autohover light is on

autohover circle on hud is displayed

ka-50 is not moving, it is in hover

(2)- i enable FD (flight director ON)

FD light is on

FD override autohover (OK)

autohover light is always on

autohover circle on hud is always displayed

my ka-50 is moving, it's not in hover

i can live with that, i think it's not a bug because FD override AP

now let's continue to the 'bug' step ;)

(3)- NOW i disabled FD (flight director OFF)

FD light is off

autohover light is always on

autohover circle on hud is always displayed

BUT ka-50 is not in hover, ka-50 is moving like in normal mode (with AP full on)

i must disable autohover then reengage it to make autohover working

is it a bug ? (i mean step 3)

 

thx in advance

best regards

Skypat

Edited April 7, 2009 by Skypat

[Jigsaw]

I don't know for sure, but I think it's normal. Imagine the pilot forgets that autohover is still active and he disables the Flight Director. The sudden unwanted movements of the helicopter could lead to problems. I think that's a safety precaution.

[Yskonyn]

But you would imagine that if FD disengagement results in Auto Hover disengagement as well, that the light would extinguish on the overhead panel.

Maybe that's the bug then?

 

Logically; if the light is still on like Skypat says, then you would assume the accompanying system is still engaged as well.

[JG14_Smil]

if you lower the collective while in hover mode, helo will crash. Is it a bug, or did you screw up? :)

 

Hover mode cannot overcome an improperly trimmed and controlled helo.

[Yskonyn]

if you lower the collective while in hover mode, helo will crash. Is it a bug, or did you screw up? :)

 

Hover mode cannot overcome an improperly trimmed and controlled helo.

 

True! :) But not quite the point here.

[Skypat]

if you lower the collective while in hover mode, helo will crash. Is it a bug, or did you screw up? :)

 

Hover mode cannot overcome an improperly trimmed and controlled helo.

 

I think you are out of subject

[Frakin Toasters]

if you lower the collective while in hover mode, helo will crash. Is it a bug, or did you screw up? :)

 

Hover mode cannot overcome an improperly trimmed and controlled helo.

 

How is that relevant?

[GGTharos]

While the devil is in the details, I don't think it's a bug. There's no telling what you've done to the heli after turning the FD on, so it might be a good idea not to actually force AH on.

[Skypat]

While the devil is in the details, I don't think it's a bug. There's no telling what you've done to the heli after turning the FD on, so it might be a good idea not to actually force AH on.

 

i have done nothing

you may try yourself :)

 

go in hover manually (stabilize yourself your ka-50)

then juste follow these step (don't touch your joystick)

press these key

1- ALT+T (auto hover)

2- LCTRL-a (FD go ON)

3- LCTRL-a (FD go OFF)

at this step, auto hover light are always on, autohover circle is displayed on HUD but autohover don't control anything

 

strange..isn't it ?

i think it's a bug

either autohover should be on properly (not only light and circle but should control hover), either autohover should be off and so light and autohover circle should go off too

 

best regards

SKypat

Edited April 7, 2009 by Skypat

[GGTharos]

If I were an engineer, I would have no way of telling what condition you left the heli in after coming back from FD. Thus it is not safe for me to program the system to re-engage the AH when you turn off FD; you haven't turned AH OFF, so I may as well leave the symbology on, since as far as I know you didn't want it to go away (Which is why you didn't turn AH off yourself)

[Yskonyn]

Yes but if the Autohover light remains ON, shouldn't we expect the Shark to default back to its Autohover state, regardless of what we did?

 

Is it correct to assume that the augmenting systems work only from the starting position out of a trimmed state? E.g. once you override the auto hover with cyclic/yaw input the system remains engaged although it looses it reference and so its up to the pilot to re-initialize autohover from a trimmed state? Is that how the system is intended to work?

[MBot]

If I were an engineer, I would have no way of telling what condition you left the heli in after coming back from FD. Thus it is not safe for me to program the system to re-engage the AH when you turn off FD; you haven't turned AH OFF, so I may as well leave the symbology on, since as far as I know you didn't want it to go away (Which is why you didn't turn AH off yourself)

 

That doesn't make a lot of sense to me. It should either turn on AH again or turn off symbology. Having your instruments display something that is not true sounds like a big no-no in aircraft.

[GGTharos]

No, I think you're just making the wrong assupmptions. Safety is more important in flight than making things work how you THINK they should work in some cases.

 

It might make sense to you to re-engage AH, but from a safety standpoint, it might not.

 

The trick is to find out how it was actually implemented in RL I guess. ;)

 

Anyway - the devs will be on it I'm sure.

[MBot]

No, I think you're just making the wrong assupmptions. Safety is more important in flight than making things work how you THINK they should work in some cases.

 

It might make sense to you to re-engage AH, but from a safety standpoint, it might not.

 

 

Might be true, but then it should turn off the lights.

[Yskonyn]

No, I think you're just making the wrong assupmptions. Safety is more important in flight than making things work how you THINK they should work in some cases.

 

It might make sense to you to re-engage AH, but from a safety standpoint, it might not.

 

The trick is to find out how it was actually implemented in RL I guess. ;)

 

Anyway - the devs will be on it I'm sure.

 

Yes I agree, but then the system should extinguish the autohover light, because that would give the false assumption to the pilot that AH is still engaged. If you talk about safety this would definately be a hazard.

[Skypat]

yes i agree, we need to know how the real beast work :)

dev feedbacks will be grantly appreciated :)

 

thx

best regards

Skypat

[Skypat]

ok i found the reason

it's not a bug

 

when FD is on and when autohover is on, we are in fact in assisted hover mode !

all the hud cues displayed by by FD mode are used for help to go and maintain a manual hover position !

theses cues are updated in real time in regards to input command.

when you match exactly the cues, you will be in hover.

 

hope it's help

 

best regards

Skypat

[Yskonyn]

Yeah but I thought the problem was after the FD switched to OFF the autohover was still annunciated on the panel, but the Shark does not autohover anymore?

[Skypat]

Yeah but I thought the problem was after the FD switched to OFF the autohover was still annunciated on the panel, but the Shark does not autohover anymore?

 

i was talking about the fact that Hover mode cues was displayed when FD is on

 

but YES the other 'potential' bug is always here :\

and i hope for Dev feedbacks

[nemises]

hehe...the devil is in the details...

I love that it is possible to even have an argument about whether the autover ques / enunciators should re-engage after a flight director override...lol...18 months ago, most of us wouldn't have even known WTF we were even talking about!

[GGTharos]

I've just confirmed that what you're experiencing is the correct behavior.

[Yskonyn]

Would you care to elaborate a bit more on the subject, please?

 

Why does the autohover light remains illuminated for example when the aircraft does not stay in auto hover after the FD has been disabled again?

 

Is it because the system is still engaged, but it has lost it reference point for autohover and thus needs to be reset, eventhough the system itself is still engaged (and therefore the light remains illuminated)? Genuinly interested here, not trying to be smart.

Edited April 8, 2009 by Yskonyn

[EinsteinEP]

I've just confirmed that what you're experiencing is the correct behavior.

Correct in that the real Ka-50 leaves the Autohover light on after toggling the FD on then off, or correct in that DCS:Black Shark really operates this way?

[McVittees]

Correct in that the real Ka-50 leaves the Autohover light on after toggling the FD on then off, or correct in that DCS:Black Shark really operates this way?

 

I suspect both!

[Legerdemain]

Here's what happens:

 

1. Autohover on: helicopter hovers.

2. FD on/off: helicopter no longer attempts to return to hover, but autohover symbology remains on.

3. Use trimmer: hover position reset to current position. Hover resumes.

 

Makes sense to me. :D