fixed AIM-9B on F-5 should not be able to uncage

[ustio]

currently ingame, you can uncage the seeker for the AIM-9B by pressing the uncage button enabling you to take lead and off bore shot. this is however is incorrect since uncaging was introduce in AIM-9E. And I believe this problem is specific to F-5 airframe in game

 

here is the track file and reference below

 

 9Buncage.trk

Edited February 9, 2024 by ustio

[Zeagle]

You may indeed be correct, I don't know. However, the posted image does not say one way or the other for the AIM-9B.

And, if you are going to reference documents, it's a good idea to post the title of the document so others can look it up.

Edited February 8, 2024 by Zeagle

[2alpha-down0]

This also affects the F-86.  In that jet, the seeker automatically uncages when it obtains a lock.  It's marked as reported here:

https://forum.dcs.world/topic/307414-aim9bgar-8-should-not-uncage-like-it-currently-does/

[Bucic]

http://oplaunch.com/resources/aerial-attack-study-1964.pdf

This resource has a section on the 'B.

Edited February 8, 2024 by Bucic

[Flappie]

I'll test and report.

[Flappie]

I can reproduce the depicted behaviour.

One question before I report this: why is there an "Uncage missile" keybind for the F-5E since it only carries the AIM-9B, which does not uncage pre-launch?

 

Is it used for anything else?

[razo+r]

3 minutes ago, Flappie said:

I can reproduce the depicted behaviour.

One question before I report this: why is there an "Uncage missile" keybind for the F-5E since it only carries the AIM-9B, which does not uncage pre-launch?

 

Is it used for anything else?

In DCS, only the F-5E3 is flyable, that also carries the AIM-9P, P3 and P5.

[Flappie]

Just now, razo+r said:

In DCS, only the F-5E3 is flyable, that also carries the AIM-9P, P3 and P5.

I don't fly it often enough. Does it show?

Thanks.

[razo+r]

2 minutes ago, Flappie said:

I don't fly it often enough. Does it show?

Thanks.

I've just checked ingame and even the F-5E can carry all 4 AIM-9s, B, P, P3 and P5. So not sure why you said it can only carry the AIM-9B. But it's sorted now.

[Flappie]

Like I said, I don't fly it often (which means I never fly it because I don't have much time to fly anyway).

[Harlikwin]

On 2/11/2024 at 10:37 AM, Flappie said:

Like I said, I don't fly it often (which means I never fly it because I don't have much time to fly anyway).

The uncage thing for 9B's on the F86 needs to get fixed too. IIRC I made the same bug report there ages ago as well. 

[Flappie]

Yes, it's reported.

[Smyth]

Is there anywhere that specifically says Aim-9B cannot be uncaged before the launch signal on aircraft wired to allow it? What is the specific reason that it could not accept the signal to uncage before it was normally applied at trigger press on the original [aircraft, launcher, missile] system? This is always stated as common knowledge, but I've never been able to find a primary source.

A specific primary source would be the only thing that could overrule the F-5E -34 manual when it states very unambiguously that the 9B can be uncaged using the missile-uncage switch on the F-5.

US Navy documents from the early 60s do not address this question at all. They just say the missile is uncaged by voltage from the launcher when the firing button is pressed. That only tells us how it was deployed in USN service at the time.

I am all for adding realistic limits to DCS modules, but this needs compelling justification.

(The SEAM 9B on the F-86 is a different problem -- that airframe does not have an uncage switch for any missile, let alone a SEAM processor, so there is no possible argument that it is correct)

[Flappie]

2 hours ago, Smyth said:

Is there anywhere that specifically says Aim-9B cannot be uncaged before the launch signal on aircraft wired to allow it? What is the specific reason that it could not accept the signal to uncage before it was normally applied at trigger press on the original [aircraft, launcher, missile] system? This is always stated as common knowledge, but I've never been able to find a primary source.

A specific primary source would be the only thing that could overrule the F-5E -34 manual when it states very unambiguously that the 9B can be uncaged using the missile-uncage switch on the F-5.

US Navy documents from the early 60s do not address this question at all. They just say the missile is uncaged by voltage from the launcher when the firing button is pressed. That only tells us how it was deployed in USN service at the time.

I am all for adding realistic limits to DCS modules, but this needs compelling justification.

(The SEAM 9B on the F-86 is a different problem -- that airframe does not have an uncage switch for any missile, let alone a SEAM processor, so there is no possible argument that it is correct)

More original docs here:

 

[Smyth]

Agree there is lots of evidence the Aim-9B was not uncaged until firing command (~0.8s before launch) by the aircraft and launchers it was originally deployed on.

The same is true of an Aim-9J/N/P on those aircraft (for example F100, F104G, Draken, F-4C) that could not uncage Aim-9B.

I'm just trying to distinguish between "was not" and "cannot".

[Flappie]

Issue fixed in today's update.

[Bucic]

14 hours ago, Flappie said:

Issue fixed in today's update.

Doing a victory round, eh?

Well deserved. Thank you for your work!

[Trooper117]

Happy days!

[Flappie]

10 hours ago, Bucic said:

Doing a victory round, eh?

Yes, that is my happy dance.

[MAXsenna]

On 5/23/2024 at 7:21 PM, Flappie said:

Yes, that is my happy dance.

Well deserved!