waiting for resolution RAZBAM Situation Post Archive (will be deleted)

[Mizzy]

1 minute ago, diveplane said:

all else fails cant ED buy the modules take over them to fix  keep them updated?.

What I was thinking, but looks like Razbam like spitting their dummy out.

[diveplane]

really hope it all gets resolved like i said earlier.

[Pipe]

6 minutes ago, Mizzy said:

Put it this way, there are NO other third party developers spilling their guts out in public is there! There is nothing fragile about ED, they have been around since early 1990s. If there are any problems, they are keeping it all where it should be...PRIVATE.

Mizzy

No Mizzy they are not, but that does not answer my question

[Pipe]

9 minutes ago, diveplane said:

really hope it all gets resolved like i said earlier.

We all do of course, except for a few who somehow have a personal vendetta against RB

[Njinsa]

27 minutes ago, Mizzy said:

What I was thinking, but looks like Razbam like spitting their dummy out.

Sometimes it's better to keep your thoughts private.

Especially if you have trouble articulating it in non-offensive manner.

[Blackeye]

37 minutes ago, diveplane said:

all else fails cant ED buy the modules take over them to fix  keep them updated?.

From what we've heard it appears ED doesn't want to give RB money for some reason - if they did then RB said they would continue to maintain the modules themselves.

[freehand]

I live about 37 miles from Lakenheath so I am very lucky f15s fly regular about 3 times a week will probably go some time this week take some pics, if I bump into a pilot I will ask his opinion on it 

[LorenLuke]

36 minutes ago, Blackeye said:

From what we've heard it appears ED doesn't want to give RB money for some reason - if they did then RB said they would continue to maintain the modules themselves.

Note that 'for some reason' may potentially include 'for a good, and legally/contractually permissible reason'.

[Ignition]

2 hours ago, Silver_Dragon said:

What fragile? The "drama" has only has into ED and a 3rd Party by a "Legal Dispute". Remember has other 19 3rd parties, without problems.

Razbam is the 3rd party developer with the most amount and modern modules in DCS.

You said it, there's a legal dispute and now the DCS ecosystem is showing its problems. It's the second time now and this time is way bigger than just a training aircraft.

We can lose important modules and future developments, meanwhile ED does not mention in these situations what will happen with the modules of any 3rd party developer in a similar situation.

I don't know which company is right and I don't care too much either but the business model has a really big hole for the customers. ED needs to address this.

Usas google translator? porque no se te entiende nada.

[Blackeye]

8 minutes ago, LorenLuke said:

Note that 'for some reason' may potentially include 'for a good, and legally/contractually permissible reason'.

Sure, or the opposite, we don't know -  if you ask me it's likely something in between, e.g. a valid reason but going overboard with the amount of damages or something like that.

In any case I think it's a bit naive of ED to not pay a 3rd party supplier for months and expect them to keep working regardless and not have some sort of plan for their customers for when they stop.

[Silver_Dragon]

11 minutes ago, Ignition said:

Razbam is the 3rd party developer with the most amount and modern modules in DCS.

You said it, there's a legal dispute and now the DCS ecosystem is showing its problems. It's the second time now and this time is way bigger than just a training aircraft.

We can lose important modules and future developments, meanwhile ED does not mention in these situations what will happen with the modules of any 3rd party developer in a similar situation.

I don't know which company is right and I don't care too much either but the business model has a really big hole for the customers. ED needs to address this.

Usas google translator? porque no se te entiende nada.

ED has more modules with any 3rd parties, and Heatblur and other has near to RAZBAM (Remember SA Maps has building by ORBX team) ... dont make comparations.... The RAZBAM dispute has only a problem by ED and RAZBAM, no more, and about "future develpments" that has a RAZBAM problem. Do you think I dont know the 3rd party working on the last 15 years?

[okopanja]

2 hours ago, Mizzy said:

I dare say many of us have a load of modules we purchased but hardly use or don't use at all, the three modules I have bought from Razbam I don't use but that's not to say I won't in the future but it's software development that also uses outsourced products and this sort of thing happens quite frequently in other sectors.

Slight legal correction here: you have bought 3 Razbam modules from ED.

In this case whatever is the reason for the ongoing situation, it's between RB and ED.

[Major_Mayhem]

WTF?
Some people are also reporting problems with malwarebytes as well. In malwarebytes it's allegedly causing a licensing issue. This is Windows Security/Defender. I hope this is just a false positive but I have never had this happen with a DCS MOD or any other product for DCS and I find it interesting it's happening with the F15e considering what is going on. I haven't actually flown the F-15 yet or even set it up. I have no other mods or even skins for it. I pre-ordered it and not sure when I downloaded it.
 

Edited June 9, 2024 by Major_Mayhem

[Hammer1-1]

3 hours ago, Pipe said:

and you know this?...how?

if you're privy to all this info, maybe you can shed some light on the current situation

 

you mean...other than the fact that uh...every other 3rd party dev is still WORKING at the moment?

[Ignition]

Just now, Hammer1-1 said:

you mean...other than the fact that uh...every other 3rd party dev is still WORKING at the moment?

And they will work for ever.

[Hammer1-1]

Just now, Ignition said:

And they will work for ever.

Oh Im sure that they arent pulling a Razbam right at this moment...pretty sure they are taking this as a learning moment as to what not to do in a business dispute. You know, like holding your customers hostage.

[Blackeye]

1 minute ago, Hammer1-1 said:

pretty sure they are taking this as a learning moment as to what not to do in a business dispute. You know, like holding your customers hostage.

That's on Razbam and ED (even more so than RB imo) though and I hope ED learns as well here, e.g. maybe don't withhold all money even if you (think you) have a good reason, because then you may end up holding your customers hostage when things blows up (we are ED's customers, not RB's).

[Hammer1-1]

4 minutes ago, Blackeye said:

That's on Razbam and ED (even more so than RB imo) though and I hope ED learns as well here, e.g. maybe don't withhold all money even if you (think you) have a good reason, because then you may end up holding your customers hostage when things blows up (we are ED's customers, not RB's).

ED didnt sell you Razbam's stuff, Razbam did. ED gets a percentage of the sales to exist on ED's platform.

[NineLine]

5 hours ago, Rainmaker said:

Well, lets be honest...it didn't have one.  For years.  Still doesn't if you wanna get technical.

And I don't think you wanna start drawing comparisons between the radar of those two aircraft....specially out the gate.

 

I don't think you do either as it would be off topic, please everyone stay on topic. And please be nice to each other and let's not get carried away with the "I think mine is better than yours". People are coming here in the hopes of discussing the current situation with RAZBAM products. Thanks 

PS this is for everyone.

[IceyJones]

vor 11 Minuten schrieb Hammer1-1:

ED didnt sell you Razbam's stuff, Razbam did. ED gets a percentage of the sales to exist on ED's platform.

i dont know about you, but i bought the plane in the ED store! ED sold it to me. and if ED is not able to maintain the product, nor able to deliver what is promised in the planes description (suite4), its a breach of contract by ED

btw: under EU law, ED is obliged to grant FULL refunds in this case, and not just with store credits! their terms of service regarding refunds would be wiped away in a lawsuit in the EU, because here, companies HAVE to follow EU law to be able to sell here.

 

Edited June 9, 2024 by IceyJones
btw

[Blackeye]

9 minutes ago, Hammer1-1 said:

ED didnt sell you Razbam's stuff, Razbam did. ED gets a percentage of the sales to exist on ED's platform.

Wrong. I bought those modules from ED (afaik it was never possible to buy from Razbam themselves) and the agreement even spells it out:

THIS LICENCE AGREEMENT («LICENCE») IS A LEGAL DOCUMENT BETWEEN YOU («LICENSEE» OR «YOU») AND EAGLE DYNAMICS SA

 

 

[Hammer1-1]

14 minutes ago, IceyJones said:

i dont know about you, but i bought the plane in the ED store! ED sold it to me. and if ED is not able to maintain the product, nor able to deliver what is promised in the planes description (suite4), its a breach of contract by ED

btw: under EU law, ED is obliged to grant FULL refunds in this case, and not just with store credits! their terms of service regarding refunds would be wiped away in a lawsuit in the EU, because here, companies HAVE to follow EU law to be able to sell here.

 

 

Oh Im sure that Razbam can make their own platform, not sure why they need ED in the first place...just take the hint.

9 minutes ago, Blackeye said:

Wrong. I bought those modules from ED (afaik it was never possible to buy from Razbam themselves) and the agreement even spells it out:

THIS LICENCE AGREEMENT («LICENCE») IS A LEGAL DOCUMENT BETWEEN YOU («LICENSEE» OR «YOU») AND EAGLE DYNAMICS SA

 

 

show me the part where it says Eagle Dynamics built the aircraft model. Razbam only used Eagle Dynamics platform and tools to make it, thats all. You know, that stuff that they have to pay royalties for? You think ED just gives that SDK stuff away for free? Think I can come up with a nice list of things Razbam needs to pay Eagle Dynamics for with regards to hosting their work on their platform.

Edited June 9, 2024 by Hammer1-1

[Blackeye]

4 minutes ago, Hammer1-1 said:

11 minutes ago, Blackeye said:

28 minutes ago, Hammer1-1 said:

ED didnt sell you Razbam's stuff, Razbam did

Wrong. I bought those modules from ED

show me the part where it says Eagle Dynamics built the aircraft model.

Moving goalposts, are we?

 

[Hammer1-1]

1 minute ago, Blackeye said:

Moving goalposts, are we?

 

dude...razbam built the model using ED's SDK. If you feel like Razbam doesnt owe ED a thing for using that, hosting the work on their domain, on EDs platfom...FOR THEIR PLATFORM...I guess contracting work means nothing to people here. I guess ED could have hired cheap labor...

[Rainmaker]

3 minutes ago, Blackeye said:

Moving goalposts, are we?

 

Black and white is still black and white last time I checked.   Seems pretty cut and dry to me.